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What if Chad Red lived in Illinois


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Eww eww I got a response.  This is fun.  Maybe we should start a yearly thread that we can have both Illinios and Indiana people post on and we can really get the pot stirred up and build some hype behind these duels.  I would love to see it. FYI I also wrestled in college in Illinios for a year.  So I do have respect for them but I stick by my "piss on em" statement. :)

Great idea. It can be like the old CNN Point/Counterpoint...and we could use some #SweetHashTags to make it fun!!!!

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ah hahaha... yeah I guess if ya gotta lock the other thread for whatever reason, cause ya might hurt someone's feelings I guess... LOL! continue here... if you want to wrestle ya don't miss weight. do

The guy posting his logic against Indiana wrestlers has a login name of Infinate Wisdom.  Nuff said.

i dont understand why people knock on red so much, his freshman year almost everybody cheered for him then by his senior year it was a lot against him. why can't people just be more positive forward a

There's no doubt they have more depth than us and far outdo us by almost any metric.  But we are very, very strong by our standards this year at the top of almost every weight.  According to national rankings, we would be favored in 6 of 14 matches in a straight-up, best-guy-available dual against Illinois right now.  We also had a national Top 20 guy not place and a Top 5 national guy place 7th (both of those guys were ranked based on many out-of-state victories over top competition in the offseason).  Our depth isn't Illinois' depth and we would be fooling ourselves to think so, but we're a strong state compared to the rest of the country.

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Ironically, a strong argument could be made that Illinois' one 4x undefeated champ, Josh Alber, would not have been a 4xer, much less undefeated, in Indiana. The unbiased truth is that every undefeated wrestler throughout history, no matter the era or state, needed some luck and timing to go even one season undefeated. Alber isn't the greatest Illinois wrestler of all time, but the stars were aligned for him.

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There's no doubt that illinois is an elite wrestling state. They have superior numbers, superior depth and they work on the international styles in a way that puts nearly every other state to shame. That said, their fans are notoriously delusional regarding their assessments of Indiana kids. Pay attention to their comments any time our guys beat their guys, and you'll slap your forehead in befuddled wonder. They have a tad more respect for indiana Region guys, because they feel some sort of geographical connection to them, but even still they posted derogatory things about the Tsirtsis boys, Howe, Escobedo, et al.

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"the better question is would he of even been a state champ here?

 

i think he beats williams and i think vs yates this year its a toss up

 

in my opinion rudy was his most dominate fresman and jr.yea

1 maybe 2 timer at bestr for red in illinois"

 

HAHAHAHAHA wow. 2 timer "at bestr" if he lived in Illinois. And this year, the year that he has beaten Lamont, Nick Lee, and Pletcher(who beat Yianni earlier in the day) would be a toss up.

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"the better question is would he of even been a state champ here?

 

i think he beats williams and i think vs yates this year its a toss up

 

in my opinion rudy was his most dominate fresman and jr.yea

1 maybe 2 timer at bestr for red in illinois"

 

HAHAHAHAHA wow. 2 timer "at bestr" if he lived in Illinois. And this year, the year that he has beaten Lamont, Nick Lee, and Pletcher(who beat Yianni earlier in the day) would be a toss up.

I agree with that.  Yates beat three-timer Kris Williams in his senior year twice last year (Williams is now at Nebraska) and two-timer Dylan Duncan three times this year (Duncan is a major national player).  Yates is tough as nails and would give Red as good or better of a battle than Lee did.

Edited by busstogate
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Da problem wit Illinois da have to many champs. AAA AA A it wraslin - individual sport. Winning in da small divisons is like kissin your sister. My gosh why dont we play soccer and not keep score. Red most likely would be a 4x in Illionois. Andrew Howe would have been a 4x in Illionos - dose dat mean we are better ? 

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Only someone in serious denial would believe that Indiana is superior to Illinois as a wrestling state. There really is no comparison regarding depth and performance in Greco-Roman and freestyle. Illinois and indiana are two different animals entirely, as a whole. However, our elite guys, the truly elite, would be similarly elite in Illinois. Kentucky's truly elite would be elite in Illinois. The illinois fans aren't satisfied with merely being better than Indiana--they consistently downgrade our best guys and make ridiculous excuses when our guys beat theirs. They have a few voices of reason and common sense, but the majority are very disparaging and dismissive when discussing indiana's best. If you don't believe me, just check in over there once in a while, especially when indiana kids beat theirs

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While it's true everyone is entitled to their opinion and IN has vastly improved over the past 5-7 years at the national level. IL numbers alone are much high as far as participation in the sport. That alone create a huge depth difference. I do believe IL has been top 2 in fargo AA's for a few years now

 

I do also know for a fact that a Yates vs Red match could have happened...

Edited by MCKAJC
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i dont understand why people knock on red so much, his freshman year almost everybody cheered for him then by his senior year it was a lot against him. why can't people just be more positive forward all the wrestlers, nick lee is a stud, chad red  is a stud. there are lots of studs, red doesn't have to prove himself to anyone other than himself yet he is still the best and has proved that to everyone, reds celebration and words on the telly this year at state weren't bad, they were directed toward all the doubt and he deserved to say what he said. he a great kid, a great wrestle, and has a great future in store, just like many. 

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http://www.flowrestling.org/article/40254-by-the-numbers-2016-ncaa-s

 

^ interesting article by flowrestling and I think really contributes to this discussion. Every state is going to drink their own kool-aid to some extent but when it comes down to the numbers between Illinois and Indiana there is no comparison, which most people on this board have agreed. However, the same could be said when it comes to PA and every other state... there really is no comparison. So Illinois should come down off of their pedestal and join the rest of us.

 

Chad Red is a 4x undefeated wrestler in what is an ever improving wrestling state. He has earned his number 1 national ranking and like all 4x undefeated wrestlers he experienced some luck with his timing blended with obvious hard work, technical skills, and natural talent.

 

NCAA Qualifiers By State:
PA - 63
OH - 31
IL, NJ - 27
CA - 19
MI - 15
NY - 12
IA - 11
MN - 10
CO, MO, VA - 9
FL, GA, IN - 7
OK - 6
MD, OR, WA - 5
AZ, CT, SD - 4
KS, KY, NC, TX, WV - 3
DE, HI, NE, WI - 2
AL, ID, NM, SC, TN, UT, VT, WY - 1
Canada - 1
Finland - 1

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NCAA Qualifiers By State:

PA - 63

OH - 31

IL, NJ - 27

CA - 19

MI - 15

NY - 12

IA - 11

MN - 10

CO, MO, VA - 9

FL, GA, IN - 7

OK - 6

MD, OR, WA - 5

AZ, CT, SD - 4

KS, KY, NC, TX, WV - 3

DE, HI, NE, WI - 2

AL, ID, NM, SC, TN, UT, VT, WY - 1

Canada - 1

Finland - 1

While those numbers are quite informative, they do not tell the whole story. If you dig just a little deeper & rank the states by qualifiers per capita the list looks only a little different.

 

PA - 1/202,972

IA - 1/283,466

 

NJ - 1/331,044

OH - 1/374,005

IL - 1/440,059

 

IN - 1/942,408

CA - 1/2,042,237

 

As you can see, Pennsylvania is still king with 1 qualifier for every 202,972 residents. What is noteworthy is that while Iowa is not impressive with pure numbers they are in per capita. Also worth noting is that California is not so impressive when considering per capita - only 1 qualifier for roughly every 2 million residents. Lastly, while Illinois is still impressive they do fall from a tie for 3rd to 5th, but they are still superior to Indiana by a factor of just more than 2.

Edited by SIACfan
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But size of state shouldn't matter...if you work hard enough, right?

 

Sorry, the smart alec in me just couldn't resist.

Actually the per capita numbers proves that statement to be correct. Iowa is a small state by population yet churns out a very impressive number of elite wrestlers, and California is the largest state in the nation & has a very poor per capita number.

Edited by SIACfan
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