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FormerHornet

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  1. First, it is dumbfounding to me (assuming) grown men are arguing over the internet. Very childish from both constituents. Second, policies/rules are skirted all of the time at every level of athletic competition it would be foolish to think otherwise. The NBA, MLB, and NFL are surely free from cheating and conduct themselves with the utmost professionalism at all times and rules are never skirted. And the NCAA continues to be a beacon of transparency seeking the best interest of all their student athletes and not just the superstar athletes, my apologies student-athletes, and would never grant exceptions to students who have not made "satisfactory academic progress toward a degree." (Hint: as someone who has worked for multiple large universities in major conferences rules/policies are constantly being skirted or worked around). So ultimately what is the point of this argument other than ego? Third, between IHSAA, ISWA, and the coaches association it simply shows how at times inefficient too many governing bodies can be, especially when other governmental bodies seek to deviate from their contemporaries. Bottom line let the kids wrestle. I would even advocate let the coaches have contact with their athletes since they are going to be participating in athletic events during moratorium regardless of IHSAA policy. Elite athletes and athletes that desire to become elite or compete at a very high level rarely take a day off.
  2. http://www.flowrestling.org/article/40254-by-the-numbers-2016-ncaa-s ^ interesting article by flowrestling and I think really contributes to this discussion. Every state is going to drink their own kool-aid to some extent but when it comes down to the numbers between Illinois and Indiana there is no comparison, which most people on this board have agreed. However, the same could be said when it comes to PA and every other state... there really is no comparison. So Illinois should come down off of their pedestal and join the rest of us. Chad Red is a 4x undefeated wrestler in what is an ever improving wrestling state. He has earned his number 1 national ranking and like all 4x undefeated wrestlers he experienced some luck with his timing blended with obvious hard work, technical skills, and natural talent. NCAA Qualifiers By State: PA - 63 OH - 31 IL, NJ - 27 CA - 19 MI - 15 NY - 12 IA - 11 MN - 10 CO, MO, VA - 9 FL, GA, IN - 7 OK - 6 MD, OR, WA - 5 AZ, CT, SD - 4 KS, KY, NC, TX, WV - 3 DE, HI, NE, WI - 2 AL, ID, NM, SC, TN, UT, VT, WY - 1 Canada - 1 Finland - 1
  3. I'd second the Nick Lee vote, especially since there is "inarguable evidence" that it was Chad Red this year (which I agree), and Nick Lee and Chad Red put on an awesome show at state. Then my vote would go to Mason Parris. The future is undoubtedly bright in Indiana high school wrestling a lot of talented young wrestlers.
  4. I suspect if Indiana ever consistently beats them in the Indiana/Illinois invite then respect will be earned.
  5. If Konrath were to end up at EMD they could have 3-5 potential state champions. What is the most state champions by one team in a single season 4?
  6. Awesome video and exposure for the state. They definitely pointed out how our state restrictions limit some of the top tier wrestlers from competing against the top national competition.
  7. You are right classing basketball has clearly hurt the Hoosier State and made it less competitive (excerpt from an article 1976-2012 was the source of data analyzed): (To avoid potential confusion this was satire). "Indiana, living up to its reputation, may have the strongest high school basketball tradition in the country. With 41 All-Americans in 36 years, Indiana has produced more talent than Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Georgia, all significantly larger states, and trails only Illinois, New York, and California. Adjusting for population size, the Hoosier State blows the field away. Maryland is also a hotbed of talent, as are a handful of Southern states (Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Virginia, and Tennessee), and neighboring Illinois." http://deadspin.com/infographics-where-do-high-school-basketball-stars-com-5984694 Indiana has and forever will be a basketball state: making it virtually impossible to compare basketball and wrestling in the state of Indiana. Classing basketball my have made the less than probable stories of "The Hoosiers" a distant memory but it still continues to produce talented basketball players at a disproportional rate in comparison to its size...
  8. I don't think being a four timer automatically qualifies someone has being the best Indiana wrestler ever. My vote would go to Andrew Howe and then after that I would say Chad Red, Jason Tsirtsis, Angel Escebedo, and Reece Humphrey. All great and extremely talented in their own right. And the talent gap is extremely thin between any of these extremely talented wrestlers. Howe was just dominant. His junior and senior year no one was able to compete with him. Four-time talent but happened to run into Reece Humphrey as a freshman. Indiana has experienced a lot of talented wrestlers recently and it seems to be more of the norm than anomaly now with the likes of the Lee's, Maurer, Caughlin, Micic, Rypel, Streck, and etc. I know for a fact I am missing great wrestlers. All signs point to the fact that Indiana is definitely on the rise.
  9. Mason Parris looked amazing at state. And made very good wrestlers seem average. Obviously matches still have to be wrestled but in everyone's most educated guess will anyone be able to compete with him these next two seasons?
  10. I find it ironic people get offended that there is a simply a discussion about the last match of the evening therefore making it disrespectful to the other finalists and ignore the fact the vote reads, "No, I want to see Streck maul someone last." It seems to me if you are going to be up in arms suggesting other wrestlers are disrespected or it is not a foregone conclusion that Lee and Red will make the finals then you should be offended by the assumption Streck is going to make the finals, or that he will dominate whoever he wrestles, it is disrespectful to them. That is "why we have them wrestle the matches" right? This probably the biggest match in Indiana High School history and a prime opportunity to grow the sport. It just makes sense to make it the last match of the evening. It is just wise that the IHSAA put two of the most accomplished wrestlers in the states history as the center piece. It doesn't diminish everyone else's accomplishments in fact it might boost their exposure to the casual wrestling fans.
  11. I'd have to say Andrew Howe is arguably the most dominant wrestler in Indiana history. Heck even as a three timer he might be the best wrestler (college career included) in Indiana history.
  12. No idea the average age but average grade level (two decimal points if applicable): 106-9.75 113-10.5 120-11 126-10.69 132-11.31 138-11.31 145-11.44 152-11.56 160-11.12 170-11.31 182-11.63 195-11.56 220-11.44 285-11.56
  13. Would you put Howe/Humphrey in that category as well?
  14. I forgot about Rypel vs Davison. Three HUGE match ups for Indiana high school wrestling. Clearly testifies to the rise of Indiana wrestling.
  15. I realize some might not consider either of them upsets but based on rankings alone of the big two matches Red vs Lee or Woods vs Parris is the most likely to happen? Or are they both to close to call at this point?
  16. Are there any locks for state champions outside of Rypel? Red seems like the obvious choice but with Lee anything can happen. 195, Tonte or Stewart? A lot of noise that Wildeman should be favored from previous posts.
  17. Best case scenario how many state champions will come out of the NC semi-state? It looks like Evansville and NC could be competing for the second most behind East Chicago.
  18. Minnesotta, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Oklahoma all have multiple classes in wrestling and a population smaller than Indiana's. It could be argued that each of these states is considered a better wrestling state than Indiana in wrestling. It would be easy to argue Iowa, Minnesota, and Oklahoma were better than Indiana. It would be a slightly more difficult but possible argument to Wisconsin over Indiana.
  19. Its tradition vs. progress. The one class system does possess benefits but the benefits are outweighed by its negatives. The largest benefit being the prestige of being a champion from a singe-class system. However, Indiana has possessed multiple single class champions that have lost to state champions from multi-class systems.
  20. To be fair I am not firmly aware of how new to "the wrestling scene" Texas actually is. And would not feel comfortable speaking with confidence regarding their tenure in wrestling. The state of Texas undoubtedly has athletes and given quality coaching and time it could eventually become a perennail power. However, it will be an uphill battle, football reigns supreme (like Indiana and basketball). Changing a culture is difficult: nonetheless Ohio, Pennyslvania, Michigan, New York, and Illinois (to name a few) are quality basketball and wrestling states. Indiana doens't have to be either a wrestling state or basketball state. However, unlike the previously listed states Indiana is undoubtedly the most basketball crazed state in the entire country but that is largely due to the fact that Indiana has very well developed youth basketball programs, a large number of student-athletes have an opportunity to compete post highschool due to exposure, and sustained success. Bingo! "Athletes that have wrestled collegiately and have returned back to Indiana have given our sport a very big boost in the quality of wrestling." Could not have said it better myself. If classing wrestling allows for more students to have the opportunity compete post high school then their will be more former collegiate wrestlers potentially returning to Indiana postgraduation to further enhance the sport in Indiana. There is a cultural perception football, basketball, and baseball opens doors that others sports cannot (and technically this is true for about 1% of the US population that have the opportunity to become professionals). I wholeheartedly believe that the success of the UFC is contributing and can continue to contribute to the growth of wrestling. However, yet again only an extremely small % of the population will possess such an opportunity. Most students from high schools in Indiana possess friends that either competing collegiately in basketball, baseball, or football. A much smaller % have friends that are competing collegiately in wrestling. Regardless of acknowledgement the perception that an athlete can advance post high school helps with growing a sport and is one of many factors that contributes to developing a strong culture. If classing wrestling affords more wrestlers the opportunity the chance to compete collegiately good will come from it.
  21. I haven't posted in a long time. Thankful this message board exists since it keeps me up-to-date on all the growth wrestling has been experiencing in depth and number in the state of Indiana. However, this topic has definitely solicited a response. Classing wrestling will absolutely increase depth. For muliple reasons but first larger populations naturally provide a larger pool of athletes, simply common sense and cannot be refuted. However, I can attest first hand that Texas (my current home) a much larger state in both geography and population than Indiana and any of the states previously mentioned does not possess the depth of Indiana wrestling much less that of Ohio, Pennyslvania, or Illinois. Also, states like Tennessee, Florida, and Georgia (just to name a few) have larger populations than Indiana and it can be argued Indiana is a better wrestling state any of the previously mentioned. Therefore, to chalk it up to simply having a larger population cannot be the correct answer in gauging talent depth. If talent depth were simply a matter of numbers then Indiana would be better than Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa and California, Texas, Florida, and New York would be our national powers. 1) the more wrestlers that qualify for semi-state or state increases exposure. The more wrestlers that receive exposure to college coaches the greater their opportunity to compete at the collegiate level and an increased likelihood to move back to their state postgraduation and participate in the wrestling community. 2) winning is contagious. If a small school starts to achieve regular success (even in a single class system) not so miraculously participation naturally increases. People naturally like being part of a successful movement it is a great source of pride. If classing wrestling affords more schools and most importantly wrestlers the opportunity to receive exposure and recognition within their community and in the eyes of potential college coaches/recruiters we should move toward that direction. I believe the more accurate gauge in a states depth is a combination of the number of colleges/universities that offer wrestling programs within a given state or geographic region (since it provides a student-athlete the opportunity if they so choose to compete past their highschool career), the growth and development of youth programs, and the overall perception of the sport in a given location. It takes time to develop a wrestling culture and this site and creative events such as the Indianamat Preseason Open and the new IHSWCA classed-state duals are awesome additions to Indiana high school wrestling. A little bit about my resume I currently work for Texas A&M University. And have previously worked for Indiana Wesleyan University and Arizona State University. Cost of attendance is entirely a case-by-case basis. It is a variety of factors such as GPA/SAT/ACT scores, religious affiliation (in the case of some private institutions), athetlic and academic merit based aid, applying for outside scholarships, internships, work-study, if they are a 1st generation college student, number of siblings in their household, parents income, if they are from a single or multi-parent home, the states budget and dollars allocated to funding postsecondary education. Cost COULD absolutely be a factor but that is a blanket statement and only has validity as such. Therefore, everyone will have a different experience in calculating the cost of higher education it cannot be simply chalked up to the cost of college without knowing every single wrestlers background.
  22. I have to go with Brandon James- he would be huge at that weight. Although Red is a stud and I don't think it is likely anyone could dominate him. I do reserve the right to be wrong.
  23. Leave no doubt. Bad calls can effect a match but ultimately you have to be prepared to beat both the wrestlers and referees on occasion. It shouldn't be that way but with how quickly action is happening and how talented some of these high school athletes are now it is virtually impossible for a referee to call a perfect match. Gelen is an amazing wrestler and athlete, that is without question, but I don't think it is fair to his previous competitors to blame it on "bad calls" since they put themselves in a position to win by keeping the match close. That being said he, in my opinion, should win his second straight tonight.
  24. I am fairly certain both Andrew Howe and Jason Tsirtsis did not give up a takedown in both their Junior or Senior seasons. I know their are many others.
  25. I don't see any "locks" this year clearly no Andrew Howe or Tsirtsis yet but the state has a LOT of young talent and it is exciting. My weight class to watch is 145 with Lecount, Forte, and Harvey leading the way! WOW, that is worth the price of admission alone. Also, Pierre an experienced EMD wrestler to make it an even stronger weight class.
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