Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
StevieWonder

Extra training Forbidden?

Recommended Posts

     1st time I have logged on this season, the new coach has put quite a damper on what my son thought was going to be a fun & exciting year. My son was handed a contract from the coach last night & was instructed to sign it & return ASAP. In the contract the coach had written that no wrestler was allowed to attend private Academy training. It also stated that this included no private lessons of any kind or the wrestler would be immediately dismissed from the team. It should be noted that this same coach attempted to persuade my son in to changing Academy's & go to the one he preferred at the start of the season. It should also be known that my son is the only wrestler on his team that currently or in the past few years has attended a private Academy or utilized private lessons from Academy Coaches.  My question is this, are there other coaches or High School programs across the state that incorporate this rule/policy or have attempted to prevent their wrestlers from getting extra training during the season? I can not see how this is beneficial to the wrestler or the program, or how a High School coach can control what a wrestler does on his own personal time.  I would appreciate any & all input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding of the IHSAA rules is that HS kids cannot train or practice with kids from other schools during the IHSAA season.

So the question is, does the contract refer to in season or after season? If in season, he is trying to keep the kids IHSAA eligible. 

Somone correct me if I am wrong. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, jetwrestling said:

My understanding of the IHSAA rules is that HS kids cannot train or practice with kids from other schools during the IHSAA season.

So the question is, does the contract refer to in season or after season? If in season, he is trying to keep the kids IHSAA eligible. 

Somone correct me if I am wrong. 

 

You're correct.. but this shouldn't hinder ones ability to get privates from a club coach if no other wrestlers from different schools are present might be the gripe..I personally know how a kid can be held back in the highschool room but that's a different can if worms I care not discuss so I can see why a father would be concerned for his wrestlers best interests.. especially if somebody if a coach is trying ti over ride their rights that come along with privilege of wrestling..

Edited by FCFIGHTER170

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, jetwrestling said:

My understanding of the IHSAA rules is that HS kids cannot train or practice with kids from other schools during the IHSAA season.

So the question is, does the contract refer to in season or after season? If in season, he is trying to keep the kids IHSAA eligible. 

Somone correct me if I am wrong. 

 

 "It also stated that this included no private lessons of any kind or the wrestler would be immediately dismissed from the team."

There's plenty of privates you can attend that are strictly you and the coach, (assuming the coach is around your size). I don't think that is necessarily the reason because there are plenty ways to obtain privates legally, but you are right about kids not practicing with other kids.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be clear, what's his policy in season and out of season.  Anyway as Jetwrestling mentioned,  there are IHSAA restriction within season.  Beware if your kid goes to train somewhere, and there's high school eligible kids he works with,  this is considered a competition and would count as points against your kid.  Maybe he's trying to protect your kid.    If he restricts your kid out of season,  then that's  a problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Just to be clear, what's his policy in season and out of season.  Anyway as Jetwrestling mentioned,  there are IHSAA restriction within season.  Beware if your kid goes to train somewhere, and there's high school eligible kids he works with,  this is considered a competition and would count as points against your kid.  Maybe he's trying to protect your kid.    If he restricts your kid out of season,  then that's  a problem. 

I can assure there are no out of season restrictions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reasons why a coach might not want separate private instruction during the season.

1. Potential IHSAA violation
2. Conflicting technique or strategy
3. Academy coach working with other kids in the same weight
4. Higher potential for burnout or fatigue due to extra workouts

There is more to this than what you are leading onto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great points made in nearly all the above posts.  I would only add that strictly from a legality standpoint......private sessions are in fact legal. This came from Assistant Commisioner Robert Faulkens himself, in a response to an email our AD & I sent.  He paralleled privates (paid) to more of a clinic.  Obviously no other athletes from separate schools can be involved, the clinician can have no direct contract or be coaching at another in-state high school, and also that you can't have the individual instructing multiple kids at once.  He referred us to rule 15-1.4.  It states........

a. Students may not attend a non-school sponsored clinic in a team sport, but may attend a non-school sponsored clinic in an individual sport (note: wrestling is considered an individual sport).

b. If a clinic is conducted over more than 1 day, students will be limited to 3 hours of sports instruction or daily practice.

c. a Clinic must be conducted during non-school time and no school practices or contests may be missed.
 

Apart from answering the "legal" aspect of your question.  Certain preferences come into play with various coaches.  In fact, I know of a couple coaches who prefer their kids train absolutely nowhere else!  And yes....that includes the off-season. While that wouldn't be the right fit for me personally.......I can tell you this.  Those guys resume's speak for themselves. They've produced (or helped produce) multiple State Champs.  I'd simply encourage you to hit all the angles with the current coach.  Allow him to thoroughly explain himself to you in person.  Not saying this is the case.....but I've found that in many cases the greatest problems between Coaches/Parents/Wrestlers come down to an overall lack of communication. Genuinely hope things work out positively for you & your son brother. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fun topic here - like seeing all perspectives.

I find it interesting when compared to how other states do things - you know in New Jersey the HS coach can not coach the athlete in the off season - they HAVE TO go to a club.  Just different rules completely and I don't think we want a no contact rule.  Much success when we compare our self to those states is simply a numbers game.

Population of Indiana 6.6 million

New Jersey 8.8 million

Ohio 11.6 or so

IL and PA - both 12.8+ million

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is definitely differing philosophies on this kind of thing. Some coaches have a specific style that could be hinder if your getting out side counter intuitive training. 

 

Have you discussed this with the coach? Gotten his reasoning? When we took over we let our kids leave the room in the off-seasom but only to attend approved camps and academy's to.avoid those counter intuitive issues. It sounds like only part of it is coming out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cosgrove said:

Again another indiana rule to hold OUR kids back. One of the few reasons we will ALWAYS be behind new jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois. 

Exactly...my son was going to train with Jordan elite in ohio..but couldn't because of ishaa rules about in season training..total bull..just like the way they won't class wrestling..but that's a different gripe 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I believe this rule has been in place for years.  Back in 1990, Matt Stevens from Evansville Harrison and Williams (I think) from Southridge trained together during the post season.  Stevens was state runner up at 103 and Williams qualified for state at 112.  Stevens had his runner up finish stripped from him for violating this rule.

Edited by MD92

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MD92 said:

I believe this rule has been in place for years.  Back in 1990, Matt Stevens from Evansville Harrison and Williams (I think) from Southridge trained together during the post season.  Stevens was state runner up at 103 and Williams qualified for state at 112.  Stevens had his runner up finish stripped from him for violating this rule.

They actually took away his title.  I wonder if they made him give the medal back?   Anyway,  I bet that was an ugly scene.   How did IHSAA find out,  did some coach tell on him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

They actually took away his title.  I wonder if they made him give the medal back?   Anyway,  I bet that was an ugly scene.   How did IHSAA find out,  did some coach tell on him?

That's crazy...I often see kids from other schools warming up together.. is that just a gray area? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

They actually took away his title.  I wonder if they made him give the medal back?   Anyway,  I bet that was an ugly scene.   How did IHSAA find out,  did some coach tell on him?

Nope, he was runner up.  Lost to Jason Terry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, FCFIGHTER170 said:

That's crazy...I often see kids from other schools warming up together.. is that just a gray area? 

Used to live in Ohio,  and my sons school had a couple kids qualify for state.   So all of the kids that qualified went over to the other rival  school in the conference including a couple of other teams  and worked out together before the state tournament.  Nobody was in the same weight class, but it was kind of fun and it worked.  I guess a lot of kids would have been in trouble in Indiana.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Used to live in Ohio,  and my sons school had a couple kids qualify for state.   So all of the kids that qualified went over to the other rival  school in the conference including a couple of other teams  and worked out together before the state tournament.  Nobody was in the same weight class, but it was kind of fun and it worked.  I guess a lot of kids would have been in trouble in Indiana.

Well duh ;) or just go do it behind closed doors and don't say anything. We will always chase those other states. Even when they border us ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Cosgrove said:

Well duh ;) or just go do it behind closed doors and don't say anything. We will always chase those other states. Even when they border us ;)

Indiana's out of season rules are some of the most lax in the country. Michigan and Ohio specifically both have stricter off-season rules.

Which one do you want because you can't have both?

We aren't behind those states because of our in season training rule. We are behind them because of coaching and lack of teachers as coaches amongst other things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Indiana's out of season rules are some of the most lax in the country. Michigan and Ohio specifically both have stricter off-season rules.

Which one do you want because you can't have both?

We aren't behind those states because of our in season training rule. We are behind them because of coaching and lack of teachers as coaches amongst other things.

And class wrestling...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At first I thought this was about training and overtraining which is an issue with a lot of athletes, especially 3 sport athletes. But with further reading I understand how this could get confusing. My opinion, the coach knows the athlete and his style better than an "Academy" coach who doesn't know the athlete that well and does not want a brand new technique pushed on the kid mid season. OR you have the situation of "I was a sectional qualifier when I was in high school" type of parent who knows everything but has no idea what technique, style, pace etc. etc. his kid has because he does not see his kid in the wrestling room.

Best way to find out, talk to the coach. Not at before or during practice for goodness sake. 

Which brings me to my next point, overtraining. It happens, and can cause a lot of atrophy in size, cardio, energy levels, and motivation. 

I made it to sectionals, so I know what I am talking about. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Numchuck Skills said:

My opinion, the coach knows the athlete and his style better than an "Academy" coach who doesn't know the athlete that well and does not want a brand new technique pushed on the kid mid season

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but in a lot of instances, this is exactly the opposite of what is true.  The high school coach is with the athlete from November to February for his 4 years of high school.  The Academy coach has been with that athlete year-round since he was 6 or 7 years old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×