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Everything you are saying is correct...however, at a small school, it is difficult in good conscience to truly push kids to wrestle to get better in the spring. They are busy making sure our baseball, softball, track, and golf teams are as competitive as possible. How would I feel if the baseball coach was leveraging the wrestlers to start tuning their arms up in January? It would p*@# me off. And of course big schools also share athletes. However, if the wrestlers at small schools focus on one sport, the other sports don't do poorly - they cease to exist. Small schools are playing a differnt game. That's why team sports are classed. There is no difference for individual sports. Everyone has to block another individual in football. Everyone has to mark another individual in soccer. You get where I am going here.

The first two replies being a flat “no” and “yes” is pretty much the epitome of this debate ever since the board has existed.

Common denominator CG, CP, BB club/ feeders/ MS programs are all at the top as well. why not work from the bottom up. Very hard but proven success.

Absolutely not. There are way more factors than that. What I am saying is that it can be done at a small school and it is done at small schools. Yes, your wrestlers need good practice partners. It is your job as a coach to recruit those partners and build relationships with them and their parents to get them to fully buy-in. After working for years to build numbers and make a sport cool in a place where it isn't. Here is where I currently stand. Numbers aren't everything and can be a bad thing if you don't have enough coaching staff and you aren't able to separate them into different practices. We had 50 wrestlers this year. I would much rather a smaller group of dedicated wrestlers than a bunch of kids that are trying the sport out and most of them will quit before they are seniors. I have made that clear with my team and parents so we will see how many we get next year. I just don't see this as a sport you can be halfway in. Like I tell my wrestlers it is like not fully committing to a backflip. You are going to land on your head.

The difference is at a bigger school if a kid wants to be varsity there is a decent chance he has to give up other sports to achieve that. At a small school you can be varsity much easier and don't have to give up other sports to keep your spot. This is one of those areas where the separation starts to occur, especially at weights 150lbs and below.

Just work harder, if you put in the time during the off-season you are the bad draw and don't have to worry about losing. The ticket round is a part of our culture and the most exciting round. Semi-state would be boring with wrestle-backs. Life isn't fair, get over it.

I cannot express how sad I am to be reading this thread so late. Yes, we should absolutely have divisions. Small schools are not playing the same game large schools are and should not be competing against them in the same tournament. We don't make the team sports do that, so making the individual sports do it makes very little sense. You can search galagore for all of my other logic. I am too sad to post it all right now.

Wrestle backs you say? What an interesting idea. Please tell me, have any other states implemented these "wrestle backs" , or would Indiana be the first?

I never realized my first post on Indianamat would cause such a stir!

Zach, you’ve made a lot of good points for which many on this board agrees with you whole heartedly. And then there are others who consider your stated opinions to be heresy. And then there are others whose opinions vary at all levels in between. This topic has been debated on IndianaMat ad nauseum, which is why all the comments about the dead horse.

Rebranding!!!!! Briliiiant. Class wrestling sucks. But "Division Wrestling", thats good.

I have been told that top 5 make it in. If that is the case, I have finished 5th. With that said, I would like to decline my 1st ballot honors to ensure that the best story teller ever, and friend to many, Tom Clark @grecoref ,be honored as a 1st ballot entrant to the IndianaMat Poster HOF. We miss your amazing stories friend!!!!! My time will come and until then my County brother @TeamGarcia will hold the HOF down for our community!!! Congrats to all the great posters that make this site so much fun!!!

Galagore was actually my D&D name in high school. Yeah, I am that cool.

If the high school has a wrestling culture then there are a ton of advantages. Take Bellmont, Adams Central, Garrett, and Prairie Heights for instance. None of them have issues with their numbers. I think Prairie Heights and Garrett had like 50 kids this year. On top of that, I am from Eastside High School and I know how small communities work. Most of the time you will have the same last names flowing through the school so you have a generational culture of wrestling that is huge also. Having a parent who wrestled is a big deal when the going gets tough. The reason I started wrestling is because it was the cool thing to do at Eastside in the 80's and early 90's. You don't need a room full of hammers for your wrestlers to have success. I will say you need 2 or 3 around the same weight that can push each other. Throw on top of the mindset challenges that certain demographics have or don't have that is another factor. I didn't read the whole thread but I think someone touched on it already. Here is the bottom line now for any of us. If you want your wrestler to reach the podium in Indiana you need to have an all-in wrestler that is willing to wrestle year-round with only a little bit of off time. Times have changed no matter if we like it or not. Yes, there will be some outliers here and there that don't fit this rule. Especially at the upper weights but for the most part, it is what it is. If you state that you will always share athletes with other sports because it is a small school and you don't want to takeaway from anyone's pool then 110% you are at a huge disadvantage unless your school's number 1 sport is wrestling and other coaches accept that and are okay with them possibly getting injured in a wrestling practice during their season. If your whole argument is you want divisions so kids can play other sports and still have some success at wrestling then you are correct. But that doesn't make it easier at a big school to have success. That is what you and your school system have chosen.

We are always going to disagree here. You may see the lack of wrestlebacks as exciting but I see Henderson vs Haines in the ticket round, with only one of them going, as an abomination. Both wrestlers have put in the work and are the bad draws, but blind luck of the draw combined with the lack of wrestlebacks means that the question of the top 4 semistate wrestlers on the day is not even considered. And it easily could be. Add a round of wrestlebacks to semistate and qualifying gets harder. You have to win 3 matches instead of 2 to qualify, and the third will always be against someone out of your pod who has already won 2 matches. Add wrestlebacks to the State Finals and you need to win 2 matches to place instead of 1. That is way more exciting to me. If you really want exciting, watch the blood round at Fargo or Super32 or NCAAs. Wrestlebacks would make Indiana HS wrestling better.

Weaver would be an animal at football if Rossville had a football team.

At a small school, this decision doesn't just affect the individual. It affects the entire athletic program. And if we wrestling coaches at small schools promote to our kids that they should focus on wrestling and with the other teams, whatever happens happens...then that's just not being a good teammate from an athletic department perspective. And even if you can convince me that it is OK to just look out for your sport, what happens if all of the wrestling kids agree with me that they should focus on being as good as possible at one sport, and that sport isn't wrestling? Answer: the wrestling team will fold and there won't be wrestling anymore at Culver Community. I don't want that for wrestling and I don't want that for any of our programs.

So large schools also worry about not having a baseball team because the wrestlers are all focusing on wrestling instead of baseball (or ____ spring/fall sport)? My son is an example I can use. He isn't "finding something else they (he) can be doing other than grinding." He is pitching and catching for the baseball team and working hard at it. He will actually be going in a week or two early to start work with the varsity baseball team before his middle school team practices fully begin. It's baseball season, so I owe it to him and the baseball team to allow him to give that season his full attention, just like he was able to give the wrestling season his full attention. What are some of the benefits of wrestling for a small school?

Many states have tried some sort of champions tournament and they all have failed. It would be the same thing as us running state back two weeks later and asking everyone to "prove it" with their title runs. I would guess there are around 100 wrestlers who would love a redo on their state finals and to improve their placement or get revenge for a loss they took. If a kid wants to prove he's the best in a classed state he will prove it at events during the season such as Al Smith, Mooresville, and others, prove it at ISWA events, or go out and place high at national events. Why aren't we having Rochester, Delta, and Floyd Central wrestle Crown Point after team state? Do we want to crown them champions, but then the next week say... "well you aren't really the champion?" How asinine is that?

Thanks guys. I very much appreciate the support I’ve gotten from the Brownsburg wrestling community, and the Central Indiana wrestling community as a whole. I’m firmly convinced that being involved in this great sport has been a key factor in my fight. “Once you’ve wrestled, everything else in life is easy.” -Dan Gable I don’t know about easy, but it definitely helped!

Congratulations to Brady Byrd Congratulations to from Washington for signing with Indiana Tech. Projected to wrestle 125. View full signing

It's different this time...this isn't about class wrestling...it's about divisions.

This guy from sports illustrated gives Indiana a lot of love…. https://highschool.si.com/wrestling/2024/02/29/national-top-25-high-school-wrestling-rankings-for-every-weight-class-2-29-2024

Congratulations to Josiah Dedeaux Congratulations to from Terre Haute South for signing with Indianapolis. Projected to wrestle 141. View full signing

Jonathan Kervin is a national champion! Coming in as the #3 seed at 165lbs, facing the #4, he wins the final, 10-5, after being down 4-0 early in the 2nd period. Calhoun falls, 5-4, in his final at 174.

No

Coach Frepan is an outstanding wrestling coach but he is an even better person. We are so proud to have him as part of the Brownsburg Wrestling Family and so thankful he won this battle. I can’t imagine how difficult it was for him and his family. You are freaking stud coach!

I coach at the other Brownsburg middle school and am proud to be a colleague of this warrior. You won’t find better man in our wrestling community. Last night, his team won the Hendricks County middle school wrestling tournament by over 100 points! It’s a VERY tough tournament full of current and future state champs. His team is awesome, and brings Coach Frepans warrior attitude each time they walk onto the mat. Coach Frepans team will finish the season this Saturday at our conference tournament in Zionsville (another stacked tournament). It Would be pretty cool to see coach Frepans team win him another team title!!

With the 1A/2A State Championship this weekend, it got me thinking … Is it time for Indiana to have different divisions for wrestling, similar to football or basketball? I’ll save my opinion for later, but I’m curious as to what others think.

Lets catch up on where our former studs are at and how they're doing this year. All rankings from Wrestlestat. Division One. Michigan 141 Sergio Lemely #39 174 Code Khawaja #146 285 Lucas Davison #5 Ohio State 141 Jesse Mendez #4 Purdue 125 Ashton Jackson #74 141 Christian White?? #86 141 Cole Solomon #168 141 Brac Hooper #197 149 Jaden Reynolds #162 157 Isaac Ruble #122 (big weight jump) 157 Kade Law #203 165 Cooper Noehre #124 174 Brody Baumann #74 174 Orlando Cruz #126 174 Delaney Ruhlman #217 184 Hayden Flipovich #46 184 Macartney Parkinson #133 285 Tristan Ruhlman #114 Indiana 125 Jacob Moran #157 133 Cayden Rooks #97 133 Cheney Schoeff #214 141 Joey Butler #246 149 Graham Rooks #37 149 Anthony Bahl #121 149 Aiden Torres #235 157 Brayton Lee #31 157 Bryce Lowery #247 165 Nick South #121 165 Robert Major #126 165 Sam Goin #225 165 Ben Phillips #246 174 DJ Washington #17 174 Clayton Fielden #174 197 Gabe Sollars #54 285 Nick Wilham #40 Chattanooga 141 Balek Boarman #79 Missouri 141 Zeke Seltzer #51 157 J Conway #59 Nebraska 197 Silas Allred #10 Penn State 165 Matt Lee #46 174 Joe Lee #64 Southern Illinois 125 Toby Billerman #180 The Citadel 149 Hayden Watson #165 174 Brodie Porter #87 Ohio 141 Jake Necessary #268 Duke 157 Nick Tattini #157 285 Connor Barket #54 (weight gain) Virginia Tech 133 Logan Frazier #60 Air Force 149 Alec Viduya #149 174 Drake Buchanan #186 Oklahoma State 285 Christian Carroll #210 Northwestern 197 Evan Bates #52 Who did I miss? Anyone want to do D2 and D3??

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwisto-1pNyEAxUYv4kEHeyRBEsQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbigten.org%2Fnews%2F2024%2F3%2F4%2Fbig-ten-wrestling-pre-seeds-announced.aspx&usg=AOvVaw0aPgnWRg86P8ELkh55I8Kt&opi=89978449

It’s going to be a great Wednesday night in the Franklin room. Multiple state place winners last week. Over 70 kids. lots of hard drill and live going into Folkstyle state this week. Be there by 5:45 if you can. Come in door 21. 6-7:30 pm. Breyden Bailey 4X IHSAA State Placer 2017 IHSAA State Champ Top 70 Recruit in Class of 2017 Career record: 182-5 2X NCAA National Qualifier Logan Bailey 2x IHSAA State Placer 2020 IHSAA State Runner up 2x NCAA All American 2022 NCAA D2 National Runner Up

Of course not. But is the small school athlete really doing everything they can when the best competitors in the state are going to multiple academy practices, getting privates, and seeking out the best competition at national tournaments during the offseason? If they are not, then why should they expect to be champions or state placers? Seems to be an issue with expectations. Train to be the best does not mean train only during the season. In my opinion, the purpose of high school athletics is to build skills, character, learn life lessons that sports teach us, and, at the highest competitive levels, prepare for college athletics. Each athlete chooses what they want out of the sports they choose to participate in. Someone made a comment about what the goal of the athlete is in the sport. If they plan to go to college on a athletic scholarship, then they are likely already one sport athletes. If they are looking to be a state placer at an individual sport, then they have to find a way to be competitive with those athletes who have higher goals. Nothing is given in the sport of wrestling. Just seems that the underlying desire for class wrestling is to lower the bar to allow for more athletes to reach success solely based on virtue of attending a small school. If the athlete at a small school has the goal of reaching the next level, then they have to choose to do the extra things that the top kids have been doing since they were young. If we adopt class wrestling and force the big schools into their own class, doesn't that make becoming a state placer/champion easier for small school wrestlers? This is the crux of the argument. Lets be honest.

Why have so many kids that would have attended a smaller school ended up at Crown Point, Brownsburg, or Center Grove recently? If practice partners, schedule, coaching, and other factors didn't matter they should have stayed at their small schools and been stars.

I named 4 in my local area that I compete against on the regular. I don't know much about the rest of the list you just copied and pasted. This simple answer is they don't have a wrestling culture at the moment. It's not easy to build and sustain. Most of these schools you will see flare up once in a while when a group of parents or a parent has been riding their group of kids since they were youth wrestlers. Once those kids graduate they fade back away. Those are just facts.

In your defense, the lack of how obvious that is is also kinda the point. Your confusion is what he seeks, though he does not seek to confuse you personally.

Perry Merdian Highschool Tuesday 3/5/24 from 6pm - 7:30pm. Jake Hockaday and Revin Dickman will be running it. Pack the room. Jake Hockaday: 3x STATE CHAMP Comminted to Oklahoma University Revin Dickman: 2x STATE CHAMP

Always helps to see examples - is there an easy way to sort this year's end-of-year state + semistate rankings into the classes and see some of the names each class would have had as the favorites going into the postseason tournament?

Bingo. Very tough tightrope to walk.

This is a choice you are making. Your son participates in multiple sports for his school. That is great. But it is a choice you are making. I don't see a difference in athletes in either case. We can't blame the wrestler at any school for focusing on one sport while another athlete is making a choice to participate in several sports. Is this a loyalty issue then? Loyalty/pressure for the athlete to do multiple sports because they go to a smaller school? If they want to be multisport athletes, awesome, but the trade-off will likely be not reaching the level of performance that the athletes that focus on a single sport may achieve. There are always exceptions. I wonder if Weaver from Rosseville only focused on wrestling.... That is a small school and his size would have been welcomed in many other sports. But did he choose to focus on wrestling in order to become a champ and prepare for the college level?

This isn't just a small school problem. It's a kid and what are their goals problem. They will always find something else they can be doing other than grinding if they truly aren't bought in. Not saying small schools don't have challenges because they do. But I will also say they have some benefits.

Not sure how wrestlebacks would make it less exciting. Even with wrestlebacks, there would be a “ticket round”. That said, I agree that life surely isn’t fair.

For the Individual Tournament? But they do need to bring back the Team Tournament Series, then...

@Ahawkeye & I giving the Peoples Elbows to this dead horse . Take that dead horse and its posts .

My answer is no

I have been fortunate to be around him the last few years....Great Guy!

Wow is correct!

That's incredible.

Sergio wrestled Bartlett very hard, he will be a multiple time aa.