Jump to content

3A Team State Draw and Discussion


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 198
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

We do things our own way. We aren't trying to sneak up on anyone or hide. People noticing us is fine and what we set out to do. We have grown our fan base and our hate base tremendously. Students a

Coach Snyder,  I have been following wrestling for many years and am very impressed with the program you and your staff have put together! This is my first time posting after years of following this

Your line of reasoning is just so far off its hard to take it seriously. You are putting the cart before the horse.   Teams aren't good because of the number of ranked guys they have. They get rank

The committee did destabilize the event. Placing the last three state champions in a single pool seems a bit over the top. It kind of makes you scratch your head and wonder if some old scores were being settled. Real issue with an unbalanced draw is it allows a self fulfilling prophesy to be created. Say, for example, Cathedral loses narrow matches in the tuffest pool and places 9th. The seeding committee can say ‘we’re right. Cathedral places low once again.’ But a person could see Cathedral placing higher if they were in a different pool. Or let’s say Perry narrowly defeats Penn and Cathedral, but uses so much emotional and physical energy that they are spent and lose to Brownsburg. The committee can say, ‘we’re right. Perry is 3rd.’

Such self fulfilling prophesies can become quite convenient justifications after the fact when teams have been align so as to produce desired outcomes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cathedral was in a random draw, they were not to be seeded due to losses to the #7 and #8 seeds. They did not have the luck of the Irish. Is it such a travesty if they are with Brownsburg and Lawrence North? They'd still likely be going for 9th there. Or with Warren and Avon...they'd still be likely going for 9th there. Or if they are with Mater Dei and Portage...again likely going for 9th there.....

 

No wonder there was no tin foil today as all you Penn fans have been wearing it on your head this week.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a reason behind not live streaming this event? Increase physical attendance? Protect scouting?

 

I'm just curious, it would be great for ppl unable to attend to still have access. Broadcasting these types of events whether it be Flo, BTN, or ESPN has only helped our sport. 

 

Lack of effort by association.  One guy does about 90% of the organizing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cathedral was in a random draw, they were not to be seeded due to losses to the #7 and #8 seeds. They did not have the luck of the Irish. Is it such a travesty if they are with Brownsburg and Lawrence North? They'd still likely be going for 9th there. Or with Warren and Avon...they'd still be likely going for 9th there. Or if they are with Mater Dei and Portage...again likely going for 9th there.....

 

No wonder there was no tin foil today as all you Penn fans have been wearing it on your head this week.

The Foil must be working , as we just won another Al Smith team title . 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The committee did destabilize the event. Placing the last three state champions in a single pool seems a bit over the top. It kind of makes you scratch your head and wonder if some old scores were being settled. Real issue with an unbalanced draw is it allows a self fulfilling prophesy to be created. Say, for example, Cathedral loses narrow matches in the tuffest pool and places 9th. The seeding committee can say ‘we’re right. Cathedral places low once again.’ But a person could see Cathedral placing higher if they were in a different pool. Or let’s say Perry narrowly defeats Penn and Cathedral, but uses so much emotional and physical energy that they are spent and lose to Brownsburg. The committee can say, ‘we’re right. Perry is 3rd.’

Such self fulfilling prophesies can become quite convenient justifications after the fact when teams have been align so as to produce desired outcomes.

It is tuff. Move CAT to any of the other quarter brackets, and they still get two losses hung on them.

 

Destabilizing AND tuff

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is tuff. Move CAT to any of the other quarter brackets, and they still get two losses hung on them.

 

Destabilizing AND tuff

I think Cathedral is better than what people think , with the current lineup . I could swear they were missing guys when they lost to Avon , and they just barely lost to a very good Portage team . I don't think anyone wants to wrestle Cathedral. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure what all the fuss is about.  I am just glad someone is putting it all together as we can't depend on the IHSAA to do it.  It is the champion that everyone remembers and if you beat everyone, that is you regardless of where you were seeded.  Trying to seed a team of teenage kids with the outcome also depending on individual match ups, which may be adjusted at the last second seems to be dicey at best.  If the organizers have agreed on a reasonable criteria and they stick by it, I will back them up.  If the results of the criteria isn't what we in our own biases think is right, then we should just live with it and work to change the criteria if you think it is wrong.  Remember though, the change you make may work against you next year.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats...but it sounds like all your fans are still scared to wrestle Catherdral.

Since when when does saying a team is better than people think , mean that the fans are scared to wrestle them? 

Edited by M109R
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mooresville Holiday Classic had some Cathedral vs Brownsburg match ups. I know its not a dual meet, but I think BB beats Cath in a dual just off these results

 

Team Scores

1. Brownsburg 289.5 2. Cathedral 218.0 3. Yorktown 207.0 4. Jennings County 195.0 5. Castle 189.0

 

106: Mills (BB) pin Waldenzak (Cath)

113: no match ups - Weaver (BB, 1st) Slivka (Cath, 3rd)

120: no match ups - Mulkey (BB, 1st) Cath DNP

126: no match ups - Bailey (Cath, 1st) BB DNP

132: Melloh (Cath) dec Bigelow (BB) 9-3

138: Allen (BB) dec Devine (Cath) 9-3

145: Lee (BB) TF Bagwell (Cath)

152: Owens (BB) pin Hill (Cath)

160: no match ups - Glover (BB, 6th) Cath DNP

170: no match ups - Walton (BB, 1st) Cath DNP

182: Rypel (Cath) Maj Damler (BB) 14-3

195: Stewart (Cath) dec McCormick (BB) 4-2

220: no match ups - Guhl (Cath, 3rd) Cicciarell (BB, 5th)

285: Clark (BB) pin Obst (Cath)

Edited by DLane
Link to post
Share on other sites

Would it be possible for you to make a larger generalization about a fan base?

 

Indy-

 

You make a very good point.  The fortunate (or unfortunate) thing about message boards is that the very vocal minority become the de facto spokespersons for their school's fan base.  

 

Witness the 13-14 season, a certain Hobart coach's non-stop drum beating predicting a "Black-Out" state podium run.  Remember?  What did that do for Hobart's reputation?  What did that do for the freshman wrestler?  Did it help him, or hurt him?

 

This year's Warren Central team is a force of nature. I have vivid memories of Caliboy.  Somewhere, right now, between his Crayola snacks, Cailboy is adjusting his drool bucket and contemplating a new screen name.

 

Brownsburg has a tremendous team and looks to be a player for the foreseeable future.  This is great for Indiana wrestling and a model for programs that wish to take the step.  That being said, #paintrain, #bringthepain, #bringthepaintrain, #atbrowsburgwebringthepaintrain....is exhausting.  You want a lot of attention; be careful what you ask for.  

 

On the other hand, I could be wrong.  Drum-beating, whining, self-promotion and smack talk could be the key to intimidating the opposition and putting your team over the top.

 

Pardon, the "over the top" pun.  Completely unintentional.

Edited by hook and half
Link to post
Share on other sites

To summarize some 3A results from the holiday tournaments:

 

Brownsburg finishes higher than Cathedral, 10 weights to 4.

 

EMD finishes above Avon in 8 weights at the EMD classic (same number of weights won by Brownsburg in dual against Avon).  Looking closer, all 3 tossup weights (two 1-pointers and an injury) went to Avon against Brownsburg (suggesting 9-5 might be a more typical split if they wrestle many times).  EMD finishes ahead of Avon by one spot 3 times, while Avon finished ahead of EMD by one spot only once (suggesting the 8-6 split is a generous expectation in EMD's favor for a dual against Avon).

 

Penn finishes ahead of Portage in 7 of 14 weights--the same as the result at the Harvest Classic.

 

All this to say again...these 4 teams plus Perry look very, very evenly matched.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To summarize some 3A results from the holiday tournaments:

 

Brownsburg finishes higher than Cathedral, 10 weights to 4.

 

EMD finishes above Avon in 8 weights at the EMD classic (same number of weights won by Brownsburg in dual against Avon).  Looking closer, all 3 tossup weights (two 1-pointers and an injury) went to Avon against Brownsburg (suggesting 9-5 might be a more typical split if they wrestle many times).  EMD finishes ahead of Avon by one spot 3 times, while Avon finished ahead of EMD by one spot only once (suggesting the 8-6 split is a generous expectation in EMD's favor for a dual against Avon).

 

Penn finishes ahead of Portage in 7 of 14 weights--the same as the result at the Harvest Classic.

 

All this to say again...these 4 teams plus Perry look very, very evenly matched.

 

Holy smokes!  How do i get access to the Maligned wrestling super-computer?!?!

 

I have a date with my wife tonight...can you run some scenarios and probabilities for me?

 

#malignedeatspaintrainsforbreakfast

Edited by hook and half
Link to post
Share on other sites

The committee did destabilize the event. Placing the last three state champions in a single pool seems a bit over the top. It kind of makes you scratch your head and wonder if some old scores were being settled. Real issue with an unbalanced draw is it allows a self fulfilling prophesy to be created. Say, for example, Cathedral loses narrow matches in the tuffest pool and places 9th. The seeding committee can say ‘we’re right. Cathedral places low once again.’ But a person could see Cathedral placing higher if they were in a different pool. Or let’s say Perry narrowly defeats Penn and Cathedral, but uses so much emotional and physical energy that they are spent and lose to Brownsburg. The committee can say, ‘we’re right. Perry is 3rd.’

Such self fulfilling prophesies can become quite convenient justifications after the fact when teams have been align so as to produce desired outcomes.

But you have your pre-conceived biases and hindsight "self-fulfilling prophecy" scenarios too (it seems that's your accusation of others):  If Perry or Penn finishes 2nd or Cathedral pulls an upset in the pool, you'll say, "Told you that pool was mis-seeded."  If Penn or Perry lose matches in the bracketed part of the tournament, you'll say, "Told you that pool was going to kill them."  

 

Of course everyone has biases that shade their opinions.  But opponents to your views have presented facts about seeding procedures and random draw procedures that were used to try to eliminate these biases.  You've only presented the biased perception that being the champion of an INDIVIDUAL tournament sometime in the past 3 years should affect your DUALS tournament seed.  Please recognize that your preferences represent the strongest non-fact or non-procedure based biases being posted here.

Edited by maligned
Link to post
Share on other sites

maligned............I think I agree with you and I think we are likely on same side of this argument, but when you put these posts in I feel like I am getting scolded by my mom for doing something wrong and I don't understand why (maybe its just me but your level of intelligence is slightly above my level of understanding at times). With all that said thanks for all the hard work you do for this site you are a stat-Czar and information guru !!!! 


I may see if Nicky Dubz can explain all this to me

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Brownsburg has a tremendous team and looks to be a player for the foreseeable future.  This is great for Indiana wrestling and a model for programs that wish to take the step.  That being said, #paintrain, #bringthepain, #bringthepaintrain, #atbrowsburgwebringthepaintrain....is exhausting.  You want a lot of attention; be careful what you ask for.  

 

 

We do want a lot of attention....the 1980s mentality of the sport is boring....be exciting and draw fans to the sport..if someone comes to ft wayne only to see us lose we did our job of promoting the sport of wrestling.

 

Im a flamboyant charismatic person...im not going to change that to appease people i dont know I want indiana wrestling to grow and get bigger if that means being a heel dammit ill be the best heel out there. 

 

Looking forward to saturday whether we win or lose i just hope that we can put on a show for the people who show up

 

#savewrestling #putonashow #choochoo #paintrainscoming #whatchanged #hashtagsarecool #doyourememberMySpace #thatwascooltoo

Link to post
Share on other sites

maligned............I think I agree with you and I think we are likely on same side of this argument, but when you put these posts in I feel like I am getting scolded by my mom for doing something wrong and I don't understand why (maybe its just me but your level of intelligence is slightly above my level of understanding at times). With all that said thanks for all the hard work you do for this site you are a stat-Czar and information guru !!!! 

I may see if Nicky Dubz can explain all this to me

You're not the first person to subtly (or not so subtly) suggest I should be less of a know-it-all.  :)  Please feel free to call me on it when it's headed that direction.

Link to post
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.