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This! All of this is true and accurate..and there’s more factors too. Many have been mentioned already. i have been following this thread and enjoying the discussion. Here comes the purely anecdotal part…worth nothing I know, but just wanted to share. Background: I attended Hobart in the late 80’s and had the good fortune to be a part of 2 State championship teams. I know first hand the sacrifices and dedication it takes to be part of something successful at a larger school. (Only 5 classes back then). I have 6 sons, all wrestlers for a 1A school listed in Y2s list, out here in no man’s land. Wrestling was always the top focus for all my boys, despite participating in football, CC, track, and baseball. Their high school does not have a strong wrestling culture or history. We were blessed to have a coach who was working his azz off to build one, and had built up numbers and some pride, but that somewhat evaporated when he left. I sent the boys to some camps at Purdue, or even out in Ohio. My boys were very well respected in our area and experienced success at Sectionals and Regionals; however, upon multiple births to EC SS, they were all soundly sent packing…every time. My boys harbor no sour feelings about any of these things and take great pride in their wrestling accomplishments…so, I have posted all this to relay: I posed this very question to my boys (ages 29-19) and all but one responded with a resounding NO to class wrestling in IN. For them, one of the best parts about wrestling was finding out just who the absolute best is, even when they know it’s not them. One of my sons, who was a 3x ECSS qualifier, said it like this, “Yea, maybe I coulda made a deep run in a 1A state tourney, but I would have much rather went out on my shield at ECSS each time, knowing I was seeing the best in our part of the state.” It’s easier to experience success at a small school wrestling, presuming you work hard and do the grind, than experiencing success as part of a team at a small school. Reasons like commitment from fellow team mates, injuries, harvest, etc etc all factor in for small rural schools that require 5, 9, or 11 athletes. Now the success a kid experiences may not culminate in them landing on the podium at state, but it doesn’t negate the success leading up to the day they exit the tournament. Wrestling, ultimately is about preparing for life. The IN tournament is imperfect and downright mean sometimes. Just like life can be. I put my boys into wrestling shortly after their mom passed from cancer. My oldest was 12 at the time. Wrestling helped them through the grief and prepare them to have the tools to deal with adversity, challenges and also develop character, humility, perseverance, integrity, discipline and determination. 112 athletes hit the podiums each year in IN, which means there are a host of athletes who do not, but are the beneficiaries of tremendous gifts such as motivation, fortitude, humility, perspective, and reality. None of those are bad things. All anecdotal, and worth exactly what you paid for it!

Having spent a bit more time in Iowa over the past few months, I've spoken to quite a few other UI athlete's parents about how Iowa HS sports offered and believe there's some interesting tidbits that Indiana may wish to ponder. 1. Schools let athletes compete in more than one sport in a season. 2. Track and baseball are not in the same season. 3. There are four sport athletes (and a few 5 sport athletes) given #1 & #2 above. 4. Not every team or individual makes the post season, decreasing number of tournament weekends. 5. They play state final games and wrestle state finals series during the week due to multiple class structure. My kid wanted to play MS basketball but was told by school admins he had to choose btwn wrestling or basketball and wouldn't be allowed to do both. Choice made for him. During late elementary years, he really liked baseball. Could bang them over the fence before anyone else in Little League, but daddy ball politics soured that really quickly. Started wrestling GR/FR during "baseball season" and a few years later placed at Fargo... Do think that multiple sport participation can help combat burnout for athletes later in HS - often different friend/teammate circles, pressures/expectations are different, etc. However, if the kid desires to get to an elite level with aspirations of making it to college to compete, then extra time, practices and sacrifices have to be made to reach that dream. In Division 1, football offers 85 full "headcount" scholarships and basketball has 13; then all the rest of the sports have equivalency scholarships: wrestling 9.9, baseball 11.7, etc. So, if the goal is to go on a ride to college, play the numbers math -- baseball is not it if you're not a pitcher or Babe Ruth... My kid was lucky he had a choice whether to play football or wrestle collegiately in the B1G, but the wrestling training in the "off season" is what prepared him to be able to make that choice and specifically with the training that Chad Red (C-Red) provided which is so much more than what is only on the mat... So rather than pressure kids that have dreams to wrestle after HS to play baseball, run CC/track, etc., help them find a way to train and travel to get those opportunities presented to them through their body of work. When speaking to parents with young kids, I often suggest 1 team sport and 1 individual sport to narrow down to as they get closer to middle school which usually works except for baseball where the pressure is for year around training and travel teams. (There's a good reason DSG and other companies are heavy promoters of youth sports... hahaha...) The intense schedules of basketball travel & baseball travel are atrocious... At least w/ wrestling off season tournaments, you get to choose whether or not to go and it doesn't impact the team, etc. So, circling back around to the divisions question... How's this sound? Make 2 divisions, Eliminate sectionals Must qualify for a regional and add wrestlebacks (maybe throw a "true second" round in for seeding purposes and extra drama) & advance 3 to state Run state over multiple days w/ wrestlebacks but no true second round for state finals

After all that, you named a Regional Rep

I see the sarcasm, but to that point: you would get a $25K tax write-off as a consolation and get some of it back.

I'll start. Carroll Regional a nominate @GenHeavyHandz and @nkraus

I second this. And kudos to you for hanging in there for your kids the way you did. I didn’t wrestle as much as my sons have, but I had a brutal upbringing. The little wrestling I did helped teach me I could persevere and rise above in the face of hardship and adversity. My sons have a much more stable and comfortable upbringing, but I introduced them all to wrestling because I wanted them to learn what it has to teach. In that theme, I think the IN state tournament in its current form is perfect. Especially in an ever-softening world.

Congratulations to this year's inductees

Why make our wrestling softer and have wrestle-backs? Should we give kids a second chance after they lose? Life's tough, when I lose $25k on poor investments, I don't get a redo and get that money back.

With all I said, I would prefer single-class AND wrestle-backs if it could be made to work. So maybe “perfect” wasn’t the right word to use.

18 - purple dogs 19 - red dogs 25- cg

Rare brain infection attacked Brownsburg wrestling coach: 'I'm dying' (indystar.com)

Congrats fellas, great bunch right there!!!

I can see an argument where the absence of wrestle-backs add a brutal dose of reality in that sometimes life seems like the a spin of the roulette wheel. Coming up short in that type of scenario—like a ticket rounder who’s actually a “top four in the state” wrestler—that type of experience could likely teach good lessons. (Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, I haven’t read through a lot of these class wrestling threads and don’t know what your position on it is). But honestly, would I really want that experience for my kid? A lot of stuff will teach good lessons that I’d rather them not go through. The main reason for my position on wrestle-backs is I think it would add integrity to the tournament to truly find out who the best is. My opinion is my own and based on what I think is best for my kids. I respect everyone else’s opinion as well, and can see the small school perspective. This is just my .02

How does that generate conversation? I am assuming they want some smack talkers.

Kicking things off tomorrow! Join us this off-season

3 post talking about 3 Indiana’s teams and you leave us on the HOOK what they’re Ranked Nationally ? Over here teasing us ! What do us poor folks gotta do, to get you to post what their ranked ? I can watch ice melt, and yell at it . Look ….

Don’t think too far ahead! Lol

Very interesting. I don’t follow JC very closely because of he proximity to Indiana. Thanks.

What if something bad were to happen? The tournament is at a school maybe schools need to have them. Not specifically just wrestling tournaments but maybe events in schools.

https://www.rokfin.com/ranking/3515/Fab-50-National-Team-Rankings-3424 It includes all schools public or private, state and prep national teams. The rankings are managed by Willie (aka the brain) and Josh (themat.com) they are what I would call the most accurate/ real rankings in the country

@Galagore My issue is with the argument that I am reading in support of why there should be class/division wrestling. Your argument, I am paraphrasing, is that there should be because small school athletes are not able to focus on one sport and should not be penalized because of this because they have to wrestle big school athletes that are able to be single sport athletes. You seem to also argue that class wrestling will not hurt big school athletes so why not adopt that system. My contention is that adopting your argument would water down the state series and is not a good enough argument for why we should adopt class wrestling in the state. Accepting your argument would mean giving athletes who have chosen to make wrestling a secondary sport (I think you say this in one of your posts) the opportunity to earn a medal. It would make the smaller class division champs meaningless in a sense. Wrestling in Indiana is unique in that there is one champion crowned in each weight class. One athlete that represents the most consistent, if not the best, wrestler in their weight throughout the state tournament series. I don't think any sport that has multiple champions can honestly say they are the best in the state. They simply could not know this without a tournament that puts all of the best teams against each other like wrestling does. I also take issue with the hypothetical of if every small school athlete only does one sport then that will be the end of wrestling in the state. Many schools do not offer swimming, golf, gymnastics, lacross, bowling, archery, etc., but these sports continue to exist in the state. Those that want to participate in these sports are very likely moving into schools that offer them or they are finding their own ways to excel at them through out of season practices and competitions on a national stage. I get wanting to give opportunities for kids to excel. But changing the system that crowns one state champion to one that create multiple, just for the sake athletes who choose to do multiple sports, in my opinion, is not a good enough justification or answer to the question that was posed. Perhaps we can talk about the impact it would have on transfers. If class wrestling/divisions were implemented would that lower the number of transfers that are occurring thereby strengthening small school program? Or, if we are going to make a meaningful change to the state tournament, wouldn't adopting wrestlebacks ensure that the most consistent wrestlers throughout the season get rewarded by being a placer?

I agree. College coaches have so many more tools now to recruit kids. There are all kinds of national rankings, big national tournaments, USA Wresling PIn rankings and Flowrestling videos. Its much more of a science now to recruit as a result. Actually, any state tournament event is now outshined and minimized by the plethora of data and video for coaches to use. Class or no class wrestling, it really doensnt mean much to the college coach.

So hardcore you forgot it was the Maconaquah regional for a couple years.

Looks like Indiana will finish with 3 teams ranked in the top 25 in the country. Big congratulations to Brownsburg, Center Grove , Crown Point. For context has Cali has 5 and Pa has 4

Peru regional 4 life.

If those are the defined rules then you have the be cautious with them. That being said Brooks seems to have the worst luck when it comes to his few MMA losses. First a controversial split decision in a fight where he had control of a lot of the action against a guy that would go on to be a 2x UFC champion. Then he knocks himself out while he was slamming his opponent in what was a very good performance before that moment. Get released by the UFC following a win as they were attempting to cut ties with most of the light weight division. And now this. The dude is still finding tons of success but he's having to get through some hard luck to do it. Definitely deserves a rematch.

Do you realize the number of kids that didn't wrestle in those program's middle schools or only did for one year?

Everything you are saying is correct...however, at a small school, it is difficult in good conscience to truly push kids to wrestle to get better in the spring. They are busy making sure our baseball, softball, track, and golf teams are as competitive as possible. How would I feel if the baseball coach was leveraging the wrestlers to start tuning their arms up in January? It would p*@# me off. And of course big schools also share athletes. However, if the wrestlers at small schools focus on one sport, the other sports don't do poorly - they cease to exist. Small schools are playing a differnt game. That's why team sports are classed. There is no difference for individual sports. Everyone has to block another individual in football. Everyone has to mark another individual in soccer. You get where I am going here.

Congratulations to Brady Byrd Congratulations to from Washington for signing with Indiana Tech. Projected to wrestle 125. View full signing

Congratulations to Josiah Dedeaux Congratulations to from Terre Haute South for signing with Indianapolis. Projected to wrestle 141. View full signing

I’m new to this website, so sorry for jumping on your dead horse But just hear me out for a minute. If you look at Indianamat’s Pound For Pound Rankings, the top 15 wrestlers in the state attend schools that are 4A or higher in football. I believe there are 4 main factors to consider: Coaching staff - A larger school is going to have more coaches. It will most likely have higher quality coaches. There’s a reason why the best football coaches are in the SEC and not coaching at Indiana State (no offense). Enrollment - It’s simply a numbers game. A larger school is going to have more student athletes. And that leads to a more competitive wrestling room. A 1A or 2A school might struggle just to fill its lineup while a 5A or 6A school has a wrestling room full of accomplished wrestlers. Location - Let’s face it. Smaller schools tend to be in more rural areas. Take a look at a large school in the Indianapolis area. How many highly competitive tournaments can a wrestler go to during the offseason within a 50 mile radius? And then compare that to a small school in the middle of nowhere? It’s just harder to get to the better tournaments, which make you a better wrestler. Offseason Resources - Wrestling (much like many other sports today) has become a year-round commitment. Larger schools have the resources to have a robust offseason program. Wrestling club. Youth program. Tournament. Etc. But all of those things require volunteers. The smaller schools struggle to be able to achieve these same results. While I like the idea of wrestling being a sport where it’s just you against your opponent, then the size of your school doesn’t matter. But at the end of the day, it really does matter. A 1A school will never be able to compete against a 6A school. And just as a hypothetical, what is the worst that would happen if Indiana created 3 divisions? There would be more state champs? Smaller schools would have more to get excited about wrestling? And what would be the downside? That it would make a state championship less meaningful? I don’t really think that is the case, because the most competitive programs and wrestlers are going to come from the biggest schools anyways. I think it would make the sport more relevant throughout the state. Ok, I’m done now. Where do you guys want me to put this dead horse?

Jaquan ends up 6th at 174. Great showing for the IHSAA third placer from last year

Yes, just like all other states, they use wrestlebacks to ensure proper placing and that the best guys get through, and not award lucky favorable draws.

I don't have the credentials to pull off the meme skills--but I was thinking this same thing. Only loss in two years is to Indiana's #1 pound-for-pound. Biggest jump in quality is often sophomore to junior year. Owns an in-state title and wins over nationally ranked guys in-season and out. I guess he's already old news.

This was an incredible weekend of wrestling, and the Brownsburg Bulldogs and coaching staff earned it. Congrats Coach Snyder and team. Love competing and coaching against you guys, and the purple dogs deserve all the praise and celebration. Brownsburg and Center Grove showed up and competed hard. Congrats to both of those great teams and coaching staffs. Coach Lorek Crown Point High School Wr.

Way to early numbers 1’s ? 106: Peyton schoettle Roncalli 113: Case Bell Brownsburg 120: Nate Rouix Avon 126: Revin Dickman Brownsburg 132: Isaiah Schaefer Evansville Mater Dei 138: Jake Hockaday Brownsburg 144: Clinton Shepherd Crown Point 150: Easton Doster New Haven 157: Jeffery Huyvaert New Prairie 165: Adrian Pellot Merrillville 175: Waylon Cressel Warren Central 190: Noah Weaver Roseville 215: Caden Brewer Brownsburg 285: James Hartleroad Dekalb it’s the day after state and this can change quick.