Jimtown 138 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 It's been the results of the individual tournament far longer than the team tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Is there an outcry at the collegiate level to go to some sort of dual format after the NCAA's to crown a true team champion? Actually their is a growing movement within the NCAA community to come up with some type of true Dual Team Championship. How to fairly determine who gets to participate, work it into the schedule, and change form the traditional way is what people behind the movement ar trying to figure out currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrick Snyder Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 Smooth, There are HUGE differences between college and high school wrestling...HUGE....Collegiate athletes are much more self motivated and are elite...that's why they are wrestling in college...certainly there are always exceptions...also, if they are not there is often their need of their scholarship to consider...we are going to deal with a TON of more athletes that may only wrestle for the team aspect...and are average...the team often keeps them involved in the sport. At the IHSWCA Fall Clinic we discussed team state. 100% of coaches favored keeping team state as it is currently and work to attempt to have team state classed...that's right 100%...NOT ONE coached disagreed. We ARE in agreement! It is going to be a process, but I and the other coaches are willing to see it through.... First and MOST important step: We MUST have a HUGE crowd at TEAM State this year...if we have a small crowd I fear team state is gone and we will never have a classed team state that we ALL want. We must show up and pack the house. Harper of Penn and I already made an agreement....if we don't make it to team state my team will be there buying tickets and supporting wrestling...he has agreed to do the same...we are looking at other options to increase attendance, but coaches making it a priority to have their team at team state would be a HUGE step in the right direction! If we packed the house, it is going to be very hard to take it away from us. And coaches, parents, wrestlers, and fans i guarantee you it WILL be worth the price of admission. It is an absolutely incredible and exciting day! A great way to motivate our wrestlers and support our sport! Snyder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 If we packed the house, it is going to be very hard to take it away from us. I've been their before in the earlier days of team state when it was almost standing room only. Great atmosphere. Their is a feeling you get from it that is not duplicated at individual state. I'd actually like team state to be in a bigger venue because of how crowded, loud, and chaotic it can get if a large crowd is their in the opening rounds. The only problem is the place really thins out after the first and then again the second round because of teams and fan that have to make a long drive back. I think its worth it to mention that the average fan should really conside coming even after the first round is over. Their is still plenty of quality wrestling left and they can fill in the empty seats. It would be great to show we can hold a solid crowd all the way through the event and by having a second wave come in it shows the whole event has interest and not just from the team crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Class it all!!! That would allow plenty of time for both an Individual and a Team Tournament and Wrestling would grow (maybe explode) in Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Interesting after thoughts to the Coaches Assiciation meeting http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/236480-riot-vblog/360032-dont-be-fooled-by-the-numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW177 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I am new to Indiana and coached for many years in Washington state and several in Alaska. The article I attached describes how successful the WA state tournament is attendance wise. From a pure competition stand point one state champion is a wonderful idea. However, if increasing interest in wrestling and introducing it to more kids is the goal then adding classes is the easiest way to do that. If the choice is add classes or drop team state. Then don't we have to look at adding classes? I liked the idea one poster had of wrestling off the winners of each class. This could be done in individual and dual meet tournaments. http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/02/28/1090005/mat-money-wrestling-tournament.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 We don't care about increasing participation or interest, we only care about getting our one TRUE champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 We don't care about increasing participation or interest, we only care about getting our one TRUE champion. AbsolutleyJoe!! You and I are on the same page (LOL). We need to find ONE TRUE CHAMPION no matter what!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 AbsolutleyJoe!! You and I are on the same page (LOL). We need to find ONE TRUE CHAMPION no matter what!!! Since we all agree that this is all we really care about, why don't we just go back to the old format of only the champion advances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I like cake! ;D It's about time for that to be said since this thread is about to go down the drain. Since we are all about getting coaches and the wrestling community on the same page I again ask if we ever got the results of the coaches survey that was done over last sectionals. Maybe that can help us know just what page people are even on. Along with that the results of discussions held during the coaches association meeting can help in explaining what page the coaches are all on too. If it all about getting a united front it may be helpful to know what that instead of all views involvoed but yet not know what the majority of coaches agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Smooth, There are HUGE differences between college and high school wrestling...HUGE....Collegiate athletes are much more self motivated and are elite...that's why they are wrestling in college...certainly there are always exceptions...also, if they are not there is often their need of their scholarship to consider...we are going to deal with a TON of more athletes that may only wrestle for the team aspect...and are average...the team often keeps them involved in the sport. I totally agree about your assessment between the individuals on a wrestling team in college versus individiuals on a wrestling team in high school. I was trying to ask if the individual tournament in college is the best way to determine a true team champion and whether there was any interest in changing that. I am in favor of team state and in favor of a classed team state only. I was just wondering if how the NCAA determines its team champion has an influence on this entire debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I again ask if we ever got the results of the coaches survey that was done over last sectionals The way it was explained at the coaches clinic last week, the survey questions were asked in a format and wording that appears to have been too confusing. Thus, it would be useless to base anything on those results. As I remember it, each question asked what you thought and how you ranked it in importance compared to the other topics, but it was all asked awkwardly and could easily be misinterpreted. I'm guessing that the IHSWCA will, at some point, make another attempt at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB1212 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 First and MOST important step: We MUST have a HUGE crowd at TEAM State this year...if we have a small crowd I fear team state is gone and we will never have a classed team state that we ALL want. We must show up and pack the house. Harper of Penn and I already made an agreement....if we don't make it to team state my team will be there buying tickets and supporting wrestling...he has agreed to do the same...we are looking at other options to increase attendance, but coaches making it a priority to have their team at team state would be a HUGE step in the right direction! If we packed the house, it is going to be very hard to take it away from us. And coaches, parents, wrestlers, and fans i guarantee you it WILL be worth the price of admission. It is an absolutely incredible and exciting day! A great way to motivate our wrestlers and support our sport! Snyder I agree that it comes down to money for the IHSAA, and I will be at team state with as many people as I can get to go with me and I hope that all of you will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I agree that it comes down to money for the IHSAA The last results of IHSAA shows wrestling as the wrestling is the fourth biggest revenue sport for them behind boys and girls basketball, football, and volleyball. Not sure how much of that comes from specifically the team state part of things. I'm not sure why they would cut it if the event was making them money considering many sports events are lucky to break even most years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachM Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 This may have already been hit upon, if so it needs mentioning again. Because money is the biggest factor why doesn't the IHSAA look at the numbers! After changing the format a few years back, advance 1 team not 2 and take out semi state, the income dropped from around 23,000 to 8,000 (or something like that). That is approx. a 67% drop in revenue; why not go back to the old format? If you lose that much of your income you would normally get fired, because we can't fire the IHSAA we should at go back to the system that was making the most money. This may not give every team a better chance to win a state title but at least it gets them more fired up to do well at sectional so they can help advance their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 This may have already been hit upon, if so it needs mentioning again. Because money is the biggest factor why doesn't the IHSAA look at the numbers! After changing the format a few years back, advance 1 team not 2 and take out semi state, the income dropped from around 23,000 to 8,000 (or something like that). That is approx. a 67% drop in revenue; why not go back to the old format? If you lose that much of your income you would normally get fired, because we can't fire the IHSAA we should at go back to the system that was making the most money. This may not give every team a better chance to win a state title but at least it gets them more fired up to do well at sectional so they can help advance their team. Far being it from them to accept that the state of the economy also is plays a factor on revenue for sports where participants have to travel far distances to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 It's easy to see that revenue would be down because team semi-state was eliminated. However, I wonder how much more revenue has been down because MD hasn't made the trip to Center Grove the last two years? In other words, did Castle's fan base pick up all the slack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Hoover Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Attendance has been decling for the better part of 5 years. The event at Center Grove drew around 5000 spectators at its peak. Last year attendance was 1250. It is safe to say numerous reasons contribute to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newwrestlingfan Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I wanted to touch on what Coach Snyder said because I think he made a great point about growing interest in the sport. I was not a wrestling fan 10 years ago. I grew up in Indiana and attended a smaller high school in central Indiana that had a few good wrestlers each year and the occasional outstanding wrestler that would go compete at state. Wrestling was never a big deal at our school and I never cared to go watch it. Around individual tournament time, we'd make sure to ask on Monday how our best wrestler might've fared down in Indy but the thought of going down to follow them never really registered to anyone but the family and closest friends of the wrestler. After college, I moved to the Michiana area for work and settled down in the Mishawaka community. It did not take long for me to hear about how good the wrestling team was each and every year. Still, I never attended a wrestling meet even though I enjoy high school athletics and attended many other games or meets for other sports. All I knew of Indiana High School wrestling was that Mater Dei was a dynasty that almost never lost. Then, in 2008, a friend of mine here in Mishawaka asked me if I wanted to go to team state to watch Mishawaka. I debated it and almost said no but he then said that they were really good and they thought they had a shot to beat Mater Dei. That's when I decided to give wrestling a try. Long story short, I attended team state and saw some awesome competition and now I appreciate the sport and consider myself a fan. I just thought I'd add this because I'm exactly the type of fan that wrestling can gain to continue to grow in popularity. I know for a fact that team state is a big reason that I now attend wrestling meets and hopefully a big reason I continue to follow the sport. I may be a more casual wrestling fan than anyone else here, but I find it far more interesting and entertaining to see every kid out there fighting to do his part for the team no matter if it is the state champion who you expect to get a pin or if it's the worst wrestler on the team just fighting to keep to keep his shoulders off the mat. It's also much easier for a casual fan to get behind a team rather than individuals. It's because of this point and my own personal experience that I agree with Coach Snyder's point about team state being important for the sport of wrestling to continue to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I wanted to touch on what Coach Snyder said because I think he made a great point about growing interest in the sport. I was not a wrestling fan 10 years ago. I grew up in Indiana and attended a smaller high school in central Indiana that had a few good wrestlers each year and the occasional outstanding wrestler that would go compete at state. Wrestling was never a big deal at our school and I never cared to go watch it. Around individual tournament time, we'd make sure to ask on Monday how our best wrestler might've fared down in Indy but the thought of going down to follow them never really registered to anyone but the family and closest friends of the wrestler. After college, I moved to the Michiana area for work and settled down in the Mishawaka community. It did not take long for me to hear about how good the wrestling team was each and every year. Still, I never attended a wrestling meet even though I enjoy high school athletics and attended many other games or meets for other sports. All I knew of Indiana High School wrestling was that Mater Dei was a dynasty that almost never lost. Then, in 2008, a friend of mine here in Mishawaka asked me if I wanted to go to team state to watch Mishawaka. I debated it and almost said no but he then said that they were really good and they thought they had a shot to beat Mater Dei. That's when I decided to give wrestling a try. Long story short, I attended team state and saw some awesome competition and now I appreciate the sport and consider myself a fan. I just thought I'd add this because I'm exactly the type of fan that wrestling can gain to continue to grow in popularity. I know for a fact that team state is a big reason that I now attend wrestling meets and hopefully a big reason I continue to follow the sport. I may be a more casual wrestling fan than anyone else here, but I find it far more interesting and entertaining to see every kid out there fighting to do his part for the team no matter if it is the state champion who you expect to get a pin or if it's the worst wrestler on the team just fighting to keep to keep his shoulders off the mat. It's also much easier for a casual fan to get behind a team rather than individuals. It's because of this point and my own personal experience that I agree with Coach Snyder's point about team state being important for the sport of wrestling to continue to grow. Great post; I say, imagine what might happen if fans of a few more schools had the opportunity to experience the same thing that you did in both the individual and the team aspects. Oh my, how the sport could grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrower17 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Ok not only does team state prove who the best team is it also proves who the best coach is. If it is decided to make it decided by individual results you lose alot of coaching strategy. I grew up during the mater dei dynasty i started wrestling at the age 4 and now im a junior at mishawaka i can remeber hating how mater dei always found a way to win and alot of that is coaching. Goebel always new what to do to make his team win. Now i have been in jv for the last 2 years and as a jv wrestler we know there are really 25 things we have to do to acomplish what we want as a team 1.We have to help push and beat on the varsity during practice to make them better and to get them in better shape to help us get are goal of a team state championship. 2.We know that we could be called on anytime to jump ini the line-up whether for injury or to bump the line-up to give us a better chance of winning. An example of this was last year when we wrestled crown point and our coach darrick snyder told brian weldon a sophmore who was on the jv the he would be wrestlling eric roach and that he was the "sacrificial lamb". Coach snyder tells us everyday about how before he was there the just broke on state and how that was dumb, i remember hearing that when my dad coached here and asking him why they only said state. i know im alittle bias here because i am from mishawaka and our main goal every year is to win a team state championship, and individual state championships are icing on the cake. Team state championships make the whole school feel proud to be part of their school that is one thingn individual state champions just cant do. You cant build a program around indivual state champions, why they help for those years it is hard to do anything after they leave. A great example of this is griffith. they were great when the escobedos and tsirtis were there but now they are an average team. Team state championships are very easy to build off of because kids that know they are aaverage wrestler at a school with one or two studs will think they might not win anything but if theyre at a school with a great team program they will buy in and work to because they will have the chance at something. i know this because im in that situation right now. All i ask is for everyone to please support keeping team state as it is cause it only makes things better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirsch112 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Gibson Southern went to team regionals my freshman year and I think that it was alot better wrestling went on that night for me and our team. We went up agianst MD. I think they should keep it. Thats how they have done it for how long now why change it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiler10 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 One thing nobody has really touched on is the venue for team state. Center Grove is a nice gym but unless MD or other schools with a huge fan base make it they draw virtually nobody. If the championship was held in Indy or Evansville or any of the areas where wrestling has a strong following, they would draw crowds regardless of teams. I will not drive to Center Grove to watch anyone other than my own alma mater. However, I would drive to the stadium (or new arena) to watch the championship regardless of who was wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hawaiian Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 One thing nobody has really touched on is the venue for team state. Center Grove is a nice gym but unless MD or other schools with a huge fan base make it they draw virtually nobody. If the championship was held in Indy or Evansville or any of the areas where wrestling has a strong following, they would draw crowds regardless of teams. I will not drive to Center Grove to watch anyone other than my own alma mater. However, I would drive to the stadium (or new arena) to watch the championship regardless of who was wrestling. Center Grove is only 30 minutes south of Conseco, so its more or less downtown Indy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts