RW177
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The head coaching position at Decatur Central is open. I am heading back to WA. This is a good opportunity Decatur has a brand new wrestling room and some devoted youth parents. It will take time but this could be a good program again. Currently there isn't a teaching job.
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In my opinion blaming the people running the sport is similar to blaming teachers for failing schools. The ones doing the work are the easiest to blame. Obviously everyone can do a better job, but sometimes there simply isn't a solution that is available to the powers that be. If the powers that be were in charge of parents I'm sure they'd tell them to get out of bed on Saturday and get their kids involved. They'd tell them to help coach, and run tournaments, and support referees. Besides is all this youth wrestling really helping high school wrestling? I'm not sure it is. The very best kids are better now than they've ever been, but from top to bottom I don't think year around wrestling helps. I took over Decatur Central this year. It's been a daunting task. Without year around wrestling we would be 3-5 years behind, but because everyone starts in kindergarten we're 5-7 years behind. Is this good for the overall health of the sport? I'm not sure it is.
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My son is six and started the season Novmeber 1st and is still practicing. I think about that and realize who in their right mind would do that? If you look at total numbers who at least wrestled some section of the season I think our numbers are still really high. I had over 40 kids attend at least one tournament, but only three attend freestyle state. Only one of those was truly ready. Should I really be upset that parents don't want to spend $35 bucks and a Saturday to go 0-2?
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http://blogs.indystar.com/preps/2011/05/03/ifca-playoff-proposal-would-alter-football-playoff-system/ With coaches in every sport pushing year around programs this means that many more schools will have a chance to win and encourage kids to turn out. By not adding classes for individuals and teams we are going to take a step back while other sports take a step forward.
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We are getting bigger as a society because we are getting fatter. Why support this in wrestling? I know from walking the halls that there are more big kids than ever before. I don't agree with encouraging more overweight kids. Obesity is a national epidemic why cave into this in wrestling? I also realize that there aren't many kids in 103. I say, so what! It has always been the most forfeited weight and always will be. I look at it from the standpoint if not for wrestling these kids wouldn't even be able to compete in athletics at all. Wrestling is the only place for them to excel in athletics. Why take that away?
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An interesting study would be to find out years of experience wrestling at the state tournament. I could be wrong but I'm guessing there are far more upper weight kids who started late. At the lower weights you have to have a ton of experience. If you are a super athlete and big you can pick your sport but if you're small wrestling is the best option.
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I had 4 freshman over 215 pounds and all should have been under 171 and not just for the sake of wrestling for the sake of their hearts and overall health. I agree that there are a lot of freshman in the lower weights. My point is what are the juniors and senior 103 pounders suppose to do? Quit sports altogether? Should every sport cater to big guys? A 103 pound athlete is going to have a tough time even in freshman sports when it comes to football, basketball, baseball, etc. Why not allow small guys to have one sport they can truly succeed and be the best at what they do? I want wrestlers not football players who wrestle.
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Why take away chances for smaller athletes? What other sport can small athletes be considered the best in the state? Sorry for not sympathizing for a 215 pound athlete that is being left out. Show me a legit 6% body fat 215 pounder who isn't good at practically every sport he does. There are dozens of 6% body fat 135 pounders who because of size aren't going to have opportunities at any other sport. Everyone will have some story about a small guy who is a stud but at the upper levels of sport size matters. Why as wrestlers where size doesn't matter should we cater to larger athletes that have dozens of opportunities in other sports to be the best?
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The only reason the weight classes are going up is Americans are overweight. Being overweight is becoming okay even in wrestling. Wrestling has always been a place for smaller athletes to succeed. Just looking at weigh ins is too simplistic. The percentage of high school athletes over 190 pounds that aren't overweight is tiny. Why encourage more overweight athletes? Shouldn't we at least demand that wrestlers are in shape?
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Has Freestyle and Greco wrestling run its course?
RW177 replied to PTK-time's topic in Past Discussions
I sure hope that it hasn't. Being able to wrestle three different ways is wonderful and if you throw in jui jitsu you can wrestle four. All styles help every other style and I think help with burn out. I think folkstyle state should be the week after the high school season and then freestyle and greco should start. Folkstyle season starts November 1st for most high schools and clubs. Four months of hard wrestling aren't enough? I know after the high school season I'm ready to coach something else. -
If you get a chance see the movie Win Win. It's about a high school wrestler and his coach. It's playing at Keystone Art. It's rated R for language.
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If I were in charge of wrestling in Indiana I would set up wrestling state in the following way: I would start with four classes with the top eight in each class making it to state. I would then run four seperate brackets and crown four champions on Friday night. Then these wrestlers would wrestle off for a true state champion on Saturday. The back side of the bracket would look like a normal bracket with all classes mixing together once they lost. For team state I would take the top two from each classification and have a dual tournament the next weekend. All sports except football could run this way. Basketball could set up their tournament the same way and give a small school the chance to win two games outside their class and win the overall championship.
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class wrestling vs single mat under the light?
RW177 replied to navychiefmatt09's topic in Past Discussions
I'm glad you mentioned the Olympics. Many states, Indiana included have become so obsessed with finding out who is best, all the way down to pee wees, that our Olympic wrestling styles, where we do truly see who is best have all but disapeared. Finding out who is best is important, but at what cost to our sport? Should we continue to lose market share to forward thinking sports? While wrestling complained about title nine men's soccer added college programs. Wrestling's antiquated ideas have cost us countless college programs, and when budget cuts come they will cost us high school wrestling programs. It will start with small schools and move up the chain. No one will really notice at first because those programs don't get in the spotlight. Adding classes could help change that. Maximizing good press helps! Like it or not it is about money and fan support. On another note, should there only be Division I wrestling? Should Division II, III, NAIA, JC just fold up because there is someone better at the Division I tournament? -
class wrestling vs single mat under the light?
RW177 replied to navychiefmatt09's topic in Past Discussions
I'm also a former WA coach and wrestler now coaching here in Indiana. Obviously one mat and one champion from a that day perspective is far better, but for me that is a poor arguement against class wrestling. I think anytime you can add numbers of fans and competitors you should do it. There would be more fans in the stands for a classed state tournament with more total competitors. Thus producing more revenue. As a sport two of our chief concerns should be adding competitors and increasing revenue. -
I in no way meant to high jack the thread. We are talking about saving team state. I'm saying that saving it starts with building fan bases at individual schools. I think the best way to do that is by adding duals to everyone's schedule, not just mine. I'm just using my schedule as an example. Everyone is free to schedule how ever they want, but my opinion is that going away from duals has been bad for the sport in a lot of ways. Again, I could be wrong and these are just my opinions, but I really believe the problems with team state go deeper than just the format of the tournament.
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Alex Kilgore at Decatur Central
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I haven't even seen a match in Indiana, so I may not know what I'm talking about, but looking at the format I don't think anything is really wrong with it. (Other than we should add classes, it's 2010!) The problems with wrestling run much deeper. We need to focus on duals throughout the year. I'm the new head coach at Decatur Central and we have two home duals. If by some stroke of luck we ended up in the state tournament series what fans would we have to come and watch us? I'm going to work to change my schedule with more of an emphasis on dual meets. I'll sacrifice a few individual matches. One match in front of a great home crowd is better than three in the losers bracket of some tournament with no one really watching.
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The only sure way to add girls wrestling is to promote it as coaches across the board. I'm as guilty as anyone. This year when I handed out my youth flyers I made enough for the boys and told schools to give them to girls if they wanted them. Next year I'm going to make a concerted push for elementary girls. At the high school level I'm going to set a goal of five girls. If every team in Indiana had five girls the IHSAA would take notice.
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1. I am going to work on my schedule in the next few years. The thing I prefer about WA is a forced league schedule. This keeps wrestling from going tournament only and thus further eroding its fan base. I truly believe we are our own worst enemy. I've heard lots of coaches say they would drop duals altogether. If we lose the team state series that argument will grow. I think we have to stop that sentiment to grow the sport. 2. It's shocking that a JV qualifier has never come up. Many states have had that system for 20 years. Obviously there are lots of opinions about it. I think if you polled states that have adopted it they would overwhelmingly support it. The IHSAA supporting it is another story. I would offer to drop a date to add it. Go from 18 dates to 17 dates. Again this is just my opinion. 3. I use to be staunchly against girls wrestling. However, after having several girls have a good experience with it I was finally swayed. I've had at least one girl for years now and there are times I miss the boys only side of wrestling, but I think for the good of the sport we need to work towards changing those attitudes.
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We are going to Super Duals also. I'm just talking from a pure fan stand point. Maximizing the number of matches kids get is not always the best thing for the sport as a whole. Super duals are not casual fan friendly. I'm willing to sit and watch a bunch of strangers wrestle all day Saturday. If we are going to grow the sport we have to recognize most fans want their entertainment quick and easy. I'm not interested in two teammates wrestling for the state title either. That was just an example. I'm interested in promoting 28 spots instead of 14. This is purely about getting more kids involved and keeping them involved in wrestling. What do you currently tell a senior who ends up the odd man out? Also I want the best kids at state period. If this means the top teams get more kids then the rest of us need to work to elevate our programs. It took years of steady growth for WA to add the girls tournament. I just think for the sake of the sport coaches should promote girls wrestling. The only sport in this day and age that can afford to exclude half the population is football. Soccer has passed wrestling in the USA at the college and high school level because it is fan friendly. Wrestling has become less fan friendly over the years. I just think we need to try and swing it back. Even if it means five less matches wrestled during the year.
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I am new to Indiana. I coached for a number of years in WA state and recently in Alaska. I am the new head coach at Decatur Central. I have a couple of questions that hopefully can start some discussion. 1. Why as a sport don't we emphasize duals during the year? One match in front of a good crowd is like three in the losers bracket of some tournament with no one really watching you. If everyone wrestled their football conference schedule, or something approximating it we could build momentum towards the state tournament. I have no idea what other schedules look like, but I only have two home duals. With that schedule how would I ever build a fan base? 2. Why doesn't Indiana have JV qualifier tournaments? I had challenges yesterday and have several kids who are varsity caliber, but are behind other kids. With a JV qualifier at least I could point to that and tell them they will get a shot. In WA state team mates have wrestled for the state championship before. Everyone has to have had a JV kid who deserved to be varsity, but never got a shot. 3. Why isn't there more girls wrestling? WA state has a girls state tournament in conjuction with the boys. Women wrestle in the Olympics. I have a girl who turned out this year and my AD was shocked. She phoned around Marion County and says no one else has a single girl. It's 2010! If 40 years ago wrestlers would have pushed for women's wrestling maybe title nine wouldn't have forced all the cuts.
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I am new to Indiana and coached for many years in Washington state and several in Alaska. The article I attached describes how successful the WA state tournament is attendance wise. From a pure competition stand point one state champion is a wonderful idea. However, if increasing interest in wrestling and introducing it to more kids is the goal then adding classes is the easiest way to do that. If the choice is add classes or drop team state. Then don't we have to look at adding classes? I liked the idea one poster had of wrestling off the winners of each class. This could be done in individual and dual meet tournaments. http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/02/28/1090005/mat-money-wrestling-tournament.html