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Team State Debate


Darrick Snyder

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Rumors of Team State being eliminated have again surfaced.  I have heard it is a done deal and I have heard it has yet to be decided.  I could not possibly be more adament about the importance of team state for our sport.  For me, it could not be more clear cut.  I have heard only minimal discussion about this on here and wanted to bring it to everyone's attention.  I know there are some coaches that for some reason are against team state, but overwhelmingly the coaches I have talked to want to keep team state. 

 

Please do NOT turn this into a wrestlebacks vs. Team State Debate...I am in favor of both.  Losing one does not guarantee the other.  AD's were told those are separate issues.

 

We are just talking about whether our TEAM STATE CHAMPIONS should be determined by an Individual State Tournament or by a Team State Tournament.

 

Here is my argument in favor of team state - it is very long and your commets are appreciated. 

 

  Darrick Snyder

Head Wrestling Coach

Mishawaka High School

 

RE:  Team Wrestling State Finals

 

To Whom It May Concern,

 

Why is the Team Wrestling State Finals so important to our sport?: 

 

1.) Everyone agrees, including the IHSAA, that wrestling in dual meets are important to the growth of our sport.  Why would any team even wrestle in dual meets if the true state champions aren't going to be determined by Team State?  Teams that want to compete for state championships would have to go back to long Saturday Individual Tournaments where we will gain no new fans and lose current ones.  This is going to cause our sport to NOT grow and eventually diminish.

 

2.) I have heard it stated that Team State takes away from the luster of the Individual State Tournament.  I completely disagree with this statement.  Participants at Individual State have a chance to win an INDIVIDUAL State Championship.  There are still 10,000 plus people in attendance.  It remains an incredible environment.  I would argue that if any luster is lost, it is because of the change of venue.  Conseco is a very impressive arena, but everyone that I have talked to feels there was something about Market Square Arena that made it a notch better. 

 

3.)  If the Team State Tournament is abolished, 112 fewer wrestlers will experience the

thrill of competing in a State Tournament.  This is not counting all of the JV wrestlers that bust their tails for us, to be included in Team State...they get to warm-up with the team, walk in the parade of champions, sit mat side, knowing they could be bumped into the lineup for one reason or another.  They may not wrestle, but they still get to experience the thrill of the State Finals.  They WILL remember it FOREVER. 

 

Mishawaka brings fifty wrestlers to Team State.  I know teams like Mater Dei and Perry Meridian bring more...so we are talking approximately 300 kids experiencing something they will remember forever, as opposed to a handful of the elite kids in the room.

 

4.) No matter how hard some of our wrestlers train, they will NEVER place at state.  Right now the worst guy in a team?s lineup is just as important as the best guy....and gets just as much, or more, attention.  I wish I had a team full of state placers, but I do not.  So if the state tournament is eliminated, wouldn't coaches obviously focus on the best kids that can help them win a state championship? What is the motivation of a kid that is not at the level to make it to Individual State?  Some of my most focused and motivated guys are the least talented, but they know that they could be the difference in us making it to Team State or possibly winning the championship.  They are just as important as the State Champion in my room. I would never neglect anyone in my room, but I have sixty plus guys on the team right now and only so many coaches.  I have never been in a room where everyone gets equal attention.  That would be completely impossible.  Right now in most rooms, average kids (which by far make up most of our rooms) get just as much or more attention than the best few kids.  If we do away with Team State, the focus would turn away from most kids and be back on a few.  Why wouldn't it?  No one will be neglected in most rooms, but the world isn't perfect.  We do not have one coach per kid, so the focus for any coach that I know will always be on which wrestler can win the school a State Championship.

 

5.) A team full of forfeits with four studs could be declared the TEAM State Champions.  This doesn?t make sense and is bad for the reputation of our sport.  A weak team has won individual state and has been declared Team State Champions or Runners-up when they clearly did not have the best TEAM.  Example: The 1999 State Runner-up Jeff Team...  fifth at Sectional and five forfeits, and they got TEAM State Runner-up.  I mean no disrespect to that team and their few studs, that I am sure were awesome, but this is not good for our sport. 

 

Would anyone say that having a team with a few studs that can win a Team State Championship, despite having few numbers and several forfeits, be good for our sport?  It will decrease the number of kids that go out....and will take us away from the Team aspect that makes the most popular sports so well liked.  We will also be ruining a rare chance to teach our student-athletes crucial life skills such as cooperation, team work, collaboration, etc.  These are skills that are too rare and important to disregard. 

 

If the TEAM State Champions are going to be determined by the Individual State Tournament, so much for working at creating a team to win state or make it to state.  All I need are three or four studs to win state.  Forget about all the hard working average kids?we will all have to focus on getting our 4 best kids ready to win a state title.  I can forfeit half the weights and still be state champions.  It is embarrassing to our sport to have Individual State determine the Team State Champions.  This is going to cause our sport to NOT grow and eventually diminish.

 

6.) Having a real TEAM State Championship makes wrestling more of a TEAM sport.  Look at the most successful sports - football, basketball, baseball - what do they all have in common?  They are TEAM sports! People like rooting for a team and watching teams compete against each other, head to head, to declare the champion. The less popular sports - swimming, gymnastics, etc. - are individual in essence and less popular.  This is not a coincidence. 

 

Getting rid of Team State would make our sport less popular to the general public and eliminate one of the most exciting days of wrestling we can offer.  Isn't this what we should be trying to avoid?  How much sense does it make, and how is it beneficial, to eliminate one of our finest days? 

 

I think our sport is in the process of growing, but it takes time and patience.  We have more kids out at Mishawaka than we have ever had in the last 20 years.  All of our area schools' numbers are up, every coach I have talked to says their numbers have increased.  The numbers are absolutely up because of the Team aspect of TEAM STATE.  Our current wrestlers are going to grow up eventually - make friends, have babies...doesn't anyone see that this is going to cause more people to get exposed to wrestling and possibly become fans?...but it takes time.  A lot of time!  I think fans understand more about wrestling than we think.  My wife is learning...still learning some scoring...pretty much knows who has more points and likes it when we pick guys up and turn them.  She has become a fan because of me.  Getting more wrestlers on our teams and going through our programs will lead them to possibly becoming fans later, or may give them the opportunity to expose someone else to wrestling who could become a fan.  There is no way that eliminating Team State will help the growth of our sport, so why do it?

 

7.) We need to realize that not everyone is a wrestling fanatic.  If we want to make our sport grow, Team State is the key!  I don't think anyone would say watching two state placers bang it out for fifth place at Individual State isn't exciting.  It is still important for those guys, coaches and fans...but what about everyone else on the team?  Our concern shouldn't be motivating the best guys...they are already motivated...that's why they are the best...and there is the individual state for them to shine at.  But how many guys are we going to lose if we get rid of team state?  I know I would definitely lose a good deal of them. 

 

Multiple times a year, I hear guys tell me that the only reason they put themselves through such a hard season is for the team.  Those type of kids will STOP wrestling.  Did our staff help our past state champions and placers?  Absolutely!  Were they self-motivated too - definitely.  But I do not have a bunch of guys like Josh Harper and Travis Thomas that eat rusty nails and chew on broken glass!  I have a handful of them, but to the majority it is a sport and not a lifestyle.  For the average guy to fall in love with the sport and help its growth, there has to be the TEAM State Championship. 

 

8.) The IHSWCA sponsoring a dual meet tournament that determines the Coaches Team State Champions would not mean anything.  The team tournament needs to be the one recognized by the IHSAA or it isn't going to mean much to make it or win it.  I know we will focus on whatever declares the true state championship. 

 

Again, we have won the Coaches Trophy at Individual State the last 4 out of 5 years.  It is nice and a cool trophy, but that is about it...no excitement...no rings, no parade, nothing...just a nice trophy. 

 

We all want to win the true state championship, if that is at Individual State Tournament, that is the only one that matters...Any coach who wants to win the State Championship will need to:  drop every dual meet they can...focus on their few best kids...that's what they will have to do to win the true state championship.  You win state while most of your guys are at home ? makes no sense and will kill our sport.

 

I love working with the average kids who bust their tails, who comprise most of our teams, especially because they are the ones that often make the difference at team state.

 

9.)  Has anyone considered why numbers have gone down?  The economy is very poor currently...this is playing a huge role.  Also, last year was a unique year...Mishawaka was huge favorites.  I think teams didn't bring a huge crowd because we were such big favorites.  Yorktown was the only team truly considered to have a shot and they are a small school.  I am not trying to appear arrogant?just trying to be honest and explain the low attendance.  I believe the numbers will go up this year as there is no clear cut favorite.  Several teams will have a realistic chance to win.

 

10.) I would be in favor a class team state.  This would give more teams a chance to qualify and win.  It would also generate more fans and money.  Michigan?s Team State is classed and VERY well attended.  THE IHSWCA MUST COME TOGETHER AND FIGHT TO KEEP TEAM STATE OR OUR ENTIRE SPORT WILL SUFFER!

 

A testimony about how incredible Team State is:

I talked to Ian Hinton a couple of hours before he wrestled for the Individual State Championship a few years back.  I asked him if he was nervous and he said, ?Oh yeah, we match up terrible with Merrillville.?  I laughed and told him that I was talking about his individual match and he replied, "Winning Team State is way more important to me than winning Individual State. Coach, if I had to pick, I would be okay with losing tonight... as long as it meant we would win next week as a Team". 

 

We have to remember that it shouldn't be about doing what is best for our team, but what is BEST FOR THE SPORT OF WRESTLING AND ITS GROWTH. 

 

If we didn't have team state since I started coaching, Mishawaka would have been ?state champions? the last 4 out of 5 years.  Even with that being said, I would NEVER want to get rid of team state.  Winning one true Team State Title at Team State means so much more than four the old way would have.  I am not trying to be a "know it all", but even if it was better for our school, which it very well could be, I would still want Team State because it is going to help our sport grow.  Eliminating it would greatly hurt the popularity, growth, involvement and excitement of our sport.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Darrick Snyder

Mishawaka High School

Head Wrestling Coach

 

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I think you have a worthy plight with this, Coach Snyder, but it does come off a little self-serving in my opinion. Though I am always for more wrestling competitions within the IHSAA, I don't think there is any dispute that the attendance is lacking and the same teams are there every single year: Mishawaka, Bellmont, Yorktown/Columbia City, Cathedral/Lawrence North, EMD, Perry Meridian, etc. The only parity seems to come from the meat grinder out of the Region.

 

Is Team State an important factor for the health and survival of our sport? Perhaps it increases our visibility. I don't think the sport is dimished with an individual format like the old days at Market Square Arena though. Let's face it, our showcase event is the Individual State Finals where we will fill Conseco Fieldhouse with 15,000+ for two days. Adding back the electricity of the team scores on the big screen to the roar of the crowd can only enhance that experience.

 

Further, getting 14 wrestlers out to compete in a team setting (though impressive), make it through the season (with grades and injuries), and have a complete team is increasingly hard to do on a competitive level. Hell, I am a Cathedral guy with a very storied program, and we struggle to fill the team some years. It is certainly sad that high schools have a hard time fielding a full team, but it is unfortunately the case with the emergence of other secondary boy's sports like lacrosse, boy's volleyball, etc, and the extra time commitment required by football, baseball, and soccer coaches in the off-season.

 

You have a great program running in the 574 , there is no doubt. And despite your above thesis on the myriad reasons we need Team State, I think you will find most in the wrestling community outside the "Big 15 programs" would disagree with your angle. Sorry if this is too blatant of a response. I will certainly buy a ticket to Team State every year that it continues as I have the past 10 years. However, if it goes away and enhances the Individual State Finals, I am fine that system.

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IndianaWrestlingGuy,

 

Not too blatant...I appreciate the honesty.  Couple things to consider, though...

 

1.) Not always the same teams...who would have thought 10 years ago Mater Dei would be beat out for team state two years in a row. Also, yes we have had a streak going that I am trying my hardest to keep going.  Just talked to Harper at Penn...they have been working just as hard to end that streak..and I know he plans to be at team state with Penn just like I plan to be there with Mishawaka.  Also, just talked to our football staff about this very argument.  They laughed and said how is it any different than 5A football state.  It is the same teams competing for the state title in that every year.

 

2.) Are we really willing to sacrifice the pluses of Team State so that a score can be shown at Individual State?  Would it make Individual State more exciting?  Sure, but it is already pretty freaking exciting.  Do we really think that boost is going to do more for the growth of our sport than a team state championship?

 

Just more of my thoughts...

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Also, imagine wrestling with SEVERAL less weekly duals...Why would we waste our time wrestling in duals when dual meets don't matter in determining the state champions?  We would have to schedule more individual tournaments to get prepared to win Team State at Individual State...means less dual meets.  Casual fans are not going to go to an all day saturday invitational.

 

We get 2,000 people at our dual meet for penn.

 

We get over a 1,000 when we wrestle the michigan schools...Meets like these are no longer going to help a program win state so you will see them disappear in favor of picking up an all day saturday invitational.  LESS PEOPLE WILL SUPPORT AND FOLLOW WRESTLING

 

I have heard great things about Perry vs Cathedral dual meet.  Heck I want to be there!...exciting and huge crowd...why would those two teams even wrestle each in a dual anymore if an indivdual tournament is going to determine the state champs.  Duals like these are going to disappear...how is that good for our sport and its growth????

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Also, just talked to our football staff about this very argument.  They laughed and said how is it any different than 5A football state.  It is the same teams competing for the state title in that every year.

 

That is the issue that many teams and coaches have.  In the beginning the teams at state varied somewhat, now it can be pretty easily predicted even before practices start.  The team series as it is right now is for roughly 15-20 teams in the state, the other 290 really don't give a rat's petute.  I even overheard a couple of my kids last year during the week of regional saying how they were kinda glad we didn't win sectional because wrestling in team regional would have been a waste.

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I have heard great things about Perry vs Cathedral dual meet.  Heck I want to be there!...exciting and huge crowd...why would those two teams even wrestle each in a dual anymore if an indivdual tournament is going to determine the state champs.  Duals like these are going to disappear...how is that good for our sport and its growth????

 

I don't know that I agree with this statement.  Is the only reason these matches are scheduled is to prepare for team state?  I guess I'm naive but I think rivalries play a bigger part in these matches than anything else.  Just my 2 cents.  You are a highly successful coach and know way more about the h.s. situation than most folks on this site so I'll defer to you expertise.  I would agree that matches versus out of state teams would dry up in favor of in state invitationals that would more prepare kids for the individual series. 

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I believe for the most most we would continue to see most of the same teams in, with maybe 2 new teams appearing each year.  Even if we had a 2 or 3 class team state system (which I am in favor of) we would still see the same team make it most years.  However, I believe winning team sectional, team regional, and previously team semi-state recognition does go far to further the sports appeal in those communities.  And in many areas the teams that won team sectional and the previous version of team regional did change every few years.  

 

To me team state is the only pure way to determine the best team in state. In many years the team that wins the Coaches Trophey is not even in the finals of team state.  Its not a true team title if a few individuals are giving you the points needed.  Its not a true team title when not everyone even made it to state to start on an even level points wise.  I have heard many people from other states comment that they are jelious that Indiana offers a team state title.  Even many NCAA fans wish a true dual national champion was declared instead of determaning it by a system where only certain schools have enough stud individuals to have a chance at it.

 

To me team dual meets do grow a fan base and get more community support for your program.  With the lose of team state we may see less dual meets as coaches decide is more important to pick up one or two more tournaments to prepare for individual state.  Remember because of points each tournament you pick up is 2 less duals you can participate in.  Sure we will still have duals but some areas will put less emphasis on them since it back to being much more of an individual sport if in the end all we haveis individual state. I agree with Hinton that their is something unique and almost more important when you win a key team dual.  Knowing the guys you bleed and sweat with every day came together for a big dual win has something special to it that just an individual win over that team doesn't give you.

 

To me the experiance of seeing team state is entirely different than individual state and just as exciting.  And this is coming from someone who has not had a team participate in it.  

 

To me team sucess is the best way to grow a team.   You as an individual may just have average success, but if you can help your team accomplish something greater than in the individual you still feel like you had accomplished something special in your wrestling career.

 

To me we short changed the chances of a sustained team state success by not making it into a 2 or 3 class system.  With that more middle and small size school would have sectional and regional sucess leading to more recognition in their area and thus more team growth.  By growing the sport in that way we would have had a beter selling point to why team state was worth keeping.  However, in its current form teams stateisn't leading to as much team growth since i most cases winning a sectional title is as far as most team can reaslisically get at this point.  The  oversight of not trying to make a class team state system I believe was the biggest  reason we are having this conversation today.  It would have been as simple as putting 3-5 big teams, 3-5 middle size teams, and 3-5 small teams in each sectional and then awarding a sectional title to each size school based on team points then moving along the team tournament from there while keeping the individual event in place.  That would create several more team regional site, and more participants, leading to more people and communities coming to watch these events, as well.  

 

We can't blaim the top 15 teams for this since they developed a solid program but as a result of their talent they have shut out most other teams from having a chance an created this apathy for team state.  

 

I like team state, I want t okeep team state.  But unfortunately we and the IHSAA never found a way to properly nurture team states into a sucessful sports builder and money maker.  Because of this I to fear that team state doesn't have much time.  If it does end I hope we do seriously go back to restructuring the individual series at the sectional and regional level again since we no loger have to consider team state in its design.   Maybe that way we can find ways to increase attendence and clean up some of the current issues (like having to win several matches to get to regionals but only 1 win in regionals gets you to semi-state).

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I certainly agree with most everything that has been brought up on this thread regarding Team State.  The reality is that the IHSAA has already made up their mind.  I base this comment on conversations I have had with administrators who have recently attended IHSAA regional meetings across Indiana.  The IHSAA has handed out a spread sheet which documents the decline in revenue (and interest) in our Team State format.  The last e-mail that I saw from the IHSAA several days ago said, "2010-11 will be the last year for the Team State.  The new format will go into affect 2011-12."

 

There are several variables that must be considered on this topic, and I don't think we will ever get all parties involved to agree on one solution.  I truly believe that if the Team State Duals series were "classed"; we would see an explosion of excitement, increased revenue and increased interest in our duals series.  As mentioned in another post, the current Team State series is really a race between about 6 schools year in and year out.  All you need to do is look at the results since the inception of this event to support this statement.  Again, as mentioned earlier, someone said, "the same set of schools vie for the 5A football title every year."  The difference is that there are 4 other classes where there is tremendous excitement and many, many schools get a shot at winning the 1A, 2A, 3A and 4A football titles each year. The classed football system works as it offers hope and equitable opportunity for schools of all sizes across our state.

 

 

There are a number of other variables that will impact our sport in the near future.  Things such as increased budget cuts, more lay coaches, the cutting of middle school wrestling programs are just a few that come to mind.  I am not going to say that any one person is wrong for the way they feel about our post season structure.  I see some value in everyone's comments.  I, personally, have seen this topic from many angles too.  I was part of Delta's 1985 team state title when we won it with 3 placers (a 1st, 3rd and 4th).  I have been a varsity coach for 22 years with 18 of those as a lay coach.  I, and my coaching staff, work 365 days a year to keep our dreams alive of winning a team title some day.  Wrestling in the Team State finals was a great experience this past season, but with 700 students in our school, I can tell you right up front that achieving this feat on a regular basis will be difficult as we just don't have the numbers to "reload" every year like bigger schools.

 

In the end the tournament is "owned" by the IHSAA.  They don't seem to care what those in the trenches have to say on the matter.  I wish our state AD association would step up and take more of a stand on issues of this nature, but it seems to me that the IHSAA has a "checks and balances" system that, let's just say, favors the IHSAA's decisions at the end of every meeting.

 

I have had some great conversations of late with coaches about other "controllables" in our sport.  I would also like to point out that Cale Hoover has done a nice job of walking the tight rope with regard to the IHSAA during his tenure as president of the IHSWCA.  He is not to blame for the direction in which our post season tournament is headed.  The IHSWCA officers have made presentations and suggestions to the IHSAA, but again, in the end the IHSAA has the final say so.  As the next president of our coaches' association, I plan to focus on the "controllables" in an attempt to strengthen wrestling in Indiana as a whole.

 

 

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I am very much in favor of keeping the team tournament. I also am in favor of classing the team portion of state and keeping the individual portion classless. I believe having 3 classes would help promote the sport on many levels. For an example, last year a team like Jimtown may have made it to a small class state and competed well, but instead they had to meet a very successful Mishawaka team at regionals. If both of these schools had the chance to make it to state, twice the fans would attend. However, I feel if the only way to class the team portion of state is to class the individual tournament, then I'll pass.  My question is how would you do both? Class the team portion while keeping the Individual portion classless? If you shuffled sectionals around by team size, how would keep from watering down the Individual tournament?  It?s no secret the bigger the school the better chances you have at fielding a full lineup. With smaller schools in one sectional you may have weight classes with 3 or 4 wrestlers, allowing all of them to move on to regionals.

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It amazes me that people want to ruin team state with classes, but keep the individual the same. Note lots of sarcasm in that statement.  I personally am baffled by the notion that we would ruin the individual tournament with classes, yet with the team portion it is fine to ruin it with classes.

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I think we should keep the team state series, but go back to advancing 2 teams from each sectional like a few years ago.  We would go back to 16 regional sites.  Eliminate the team semistate (like now) and advance 16 teams to the state tournament.  This would increase attendance at  regionals and reduce some of the longer travel distances.  We would then have a big increase of attendance at the team state event and add just 1 more round of wrestling.  I believe this would generate both increased excitement and increased revenue from the team tournament.

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I think we should keep the team state series, but go back to advancing 2 teams from each sectional like a few years ago.  We would go back to 16 regional sites.  Eliminate the team semistate (like now) and advance 16 teams to the state tournament.  This would increase attendance at  regionals and reduce some of the longer travel distances.  We would then have a big increase of attendance at the team state event and add just 1 more round of wrestling.  I believe this would generate both increased excitement and increased revenue from the team tournament.

Team state is already a 10+ hour endeavor as it is, adding another round would add close to five hours to the day as it would have to be two rounds(eight matches on four mats).  That would mean an 8am start would make it close to a 15 hour day and end at 11pm.

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Team state is already a 10+ hour endeavor as it is, adding another round would add close to five hours to the day as it would have to be two rounds(eight matches on four mats).  That would mean an 8am start would make it close to a 15 hour day and end at 11pm.

 

Could wrestle 1 round on Friday night if it would be too long for 1 day.

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I think change to the team super-regional idea did hurt attendence for regionals in many areas.  Because of the change teams traveled from a much farther distance in certain regions and hte increased travel time did lead to less of the family, friends, and community members wanting to make the trip.  Where as the previous team regional had team come from a closer distance helped to draw a decent crowd.  The team super-regionals seemed to also be set up in a way that in many areas almost pre-determined the winner.  This also would discourage none immediate family from making such a trip.  I think that change was just another example of a IHSAA decision that ended up dooming the sucess of the event at that level.  That change didn't do much to change the team state attendence but I believe we have hashed out much of that issue already.

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I have been hearing about the disbandment of the TEAM STATE for awhile now, as Coach McCormick stated...it's a done deal.

 

We can debate about this until the cows come home, the bottom line is: IT'S OVER.

 

Wrestling will NEVER be viewed as a sport of importance in Indiana as long as the culture of the IHSAA continues to be narrow, stubborn, and ignorant.

 

Unfortunately, fellas, they could care less!

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We can debate about this until the cows come home, the bottom line is: IT'S OVER.

 

Wrestling will NEVER be viewed as a sport of importance in Indiana as long as the culture of the IHSAA continues to be narrow, stubborn, and ignorant.

 

 

I agree lpd though it is good to hash out the shortfalls of the situation in hopes that we can learn something that may help us in future dealings.

 

 

I plan to focus on the "controllables" in an attempt to strengthen wrestling in Indiana as a whole.

 

Are you able to share what some of these "controllables" are at some point and how the wrestling community as a whole can help with them.  Obviously the more we can be proactive the better we can prepare against future IHSAA issues that involve wrestling.

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My comments:

 

                    I think that it is a terrible thing for us as a wrestling community to LOSE a part of our tournament.  I also think that wrestlebacks, and team state should NEVER be in the same argument.  Let's leave those two separate.

 

Having the Individual tournament determine our team state champion is completely inaccurate, and in no way represents the best TEAM.

 

I think that if we are against this, even if it is a done deal, we need to make our voices heard:

 

http://www.ihsaa.org/dnn/About/CurrentInfo/ExecutiveStaff/tabid/110/Default.aspx

 

Coach Snyder, I think that you provided a very well written response, and I agree with you fully.  I do not think the experience of wrestling at Team State should be taken away from any of the kids that work so hard to get there.  I wish there was a way to have every wrestling team wrestle a dual meet in the state tournament series though.  I may be unrealistic to consider a Sectional duals, but I think that opportunity for every team would really increase interest and participation in our sport.  I'm sure that I sound crazy, asking for another level in the dual portion of the tourney, when we are losing the entire thing, but I feel like a Sectional dual tourney would garner interest locally, that would progress on to regional and state.  Just an idea.

 

My Questions:

 

What do we do, and where do we go from here?

 

Is there anyway that we could put together a Team State Series through the IHSWCA? 

 

Why does the elimination of the Team State series seem so hush hush?  Is the IHSAA afraid of the backlash?  I've talked to several very active member of the wrestling community, that were first informed by ME about this issue.  I think we need to get the word out as much as possible, before they slide this card under the table.  Contact friends, family members, former wrestling, and most importantly, THE MEDIA!!!

 

Let's NOT be run over!

 

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A few more thoughts:

 

 

1.) Thought more about my motivations.  Am I in favor of team state because it is best for my team?  Our goal here at MHS is to win State Championships.  Since I have been coaching here, we have won 4 State Championships at Individual State and have only won 2 Team State Championships.  So in the past team state was not the best route for us to accomplish our goal at Mishawaka.

 

How about in the future?  Do I want to keep team state because I think it will lead to more state championships for Mishawaka in the future?  Lets say the next four years.  Actually, we absolutely have a better shot of competing for state championships without team state.  I have an 8th grader - Tommy Forte -whom I have no doubt will compete for multiple individual state championships.  I also have a few other lesser known studs that I am absoultey certain will be placing high at state.  Just these few guys automatically makes us contenders for a state championship.  This actually makes my job MUCH MUCH easier.  I don't have to worry about motivating them...they are already motivated...also, I don't have to worry about getting average kids better because they are much less important now in winning a state championship.  I'll still try to make them better, but it doesn't matter in determining who wins state.  It would actually be much harder for my team to accomplish its goals with team state, but I am still in favor of it because it is what is best for our sport.

 

2.) Coach McCormick, I feel like the IHSWCA is stuck on the idea that the IHSAA will NEVER class team state.  Will it happen anytime soon? Probably not....Is ANYONE here against the idea of classing team state?  Don't we all agree that classing team state is best for our sport?  Isn't that one of our ultimate goals?  If so how does it make any sense whatsoever to eliminate team state?  That just takes a us backwards in the goal of classing team state.  THe IHSWCA should come together and do anything possible to keep team state....then work towards classing team state.  WIll it be hard? Yes...will it take time?  Yes....will it require new thinking by the IHSAA?  Maybe even new leadership in the IHSAA? YES, but it is possible!  And this must be the goal of the IHSWCA...Keep team state and work towards classing it!

 

 

I have dealt with so many incorrect ?NEVERS? in my coaching career:

 

A.) An Indiana team will NEVER beat Mater Dei

 

 

B.) My administration would NEVER let us wrestle a Michigan Team 2 hours away?let alone on a Friday night.

 

 

C.) My administration would NEVER let us start elementary wrestling.

 

Etc etc etc

 

Why are we giving up so easy?  Again, don?t we all agree that a classed Team State is best for our sport?  If so, why in the world wouldn?t we fight to keep Team State? In the years to come, we could then fight for a classed Team State.  It is NOT impossible!  Other states have it!  We are making it too easy and much more likely that we will NEVER have it by eliminating team state.  Lets fight to keep Team State and get a classed state down the road.  Do we even know what the new Asst. Commissioners stance on Classed Team State is?

 

 

Is the IHSAA planning to drop team state after this year?  Word is they are, but what are we doing to try to change their minds?  Very little?I believe team state will be better attended this year since there is not a clear cut favorite.  This is a step in the right direction.  Could this and the IHSWCA fighting for Team State be enough to keep it?  I believe it is possible, but not if we don?t work at it?together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I believe that they are classing soccer next year.  How hard would it be to class the Team State tournament?  I'm sure we could come up with 3 proposals, vote on one, plan to implement it the next year, and still have time to watch Vision Quest that evening.

 

I think the key to this would be saying; We are classing the Team State Tournament.  We are in no way considering classing the Individual Tournament.

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