This Crown Point Team…

[ReformedPoster]

On 2/7/2024 at 6:39 AM, BIGCATSontheMAT said:

All 14 for Mater Dei. But still get told we “recruit”

Ty Henderson transferred from Vincennes Lincoln, so 13

[CoachDuke2.0]

2 hours ago, Tommyboy said:

its crazy when a school that is known for accepting transfers, starts contesting kids that wanna leave ...and actually block a kid who was gonna be a senior.

 and make him miss his senior year. 

You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave

[tyquhp13]

17 hours ago, hook and half said:

 

This has been going on in the region for 25+ years.  The younger brother goes to different school from big brother, while the third brother goes to yet another school.  It just makes sense.  Barring any academic difference, why would a sentient parent send a kid to a school where his shot of excellence is diminished?

 

Brownsburg and Center Grove are strong on academics, have great communities and...wait for it...top-notch wrestling programs.  What's not to like?  if you have a kid who has a chance at reaching for the golden ring, you have to justify NOT sending them there.

 

It's a bit tougher in Evansville.  if you want excellence you pay a price for it, beyond the blood and sweat.  It's called tuition.  In spite of what you might hear, a Catholic school "athletic scholarship" exists only in imaginations.  It's kind of like the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or "The Man";  fun to think about or to justify outcomes, but it doesn't really exist.

 

While Center Grove, Crown Point and Brownsburg have specific and identifiable advantages, they do not enjoy a permanent hegemony.  All three programs have high level wrestling academies to feed their schools, which are led by superior coaching staffs.  All it takes is a single coaching turnover and your incoming middle school champion is off to greener pastures.

 

What do the Big Three have in common?  Large populaton bases with affluent communties is the first ingredient; next-level wrestling academies is the second.  

 

Where else could this exist?

 

1.  North Indianapolis/Carmel/ Zionsville-  Big population, affluence, big schools.  Wrestling academy, communities?

2.  Jeffersonville/New Albany-  Big population (Louisville metro is massive; quality wreslers exist).  Affluence, community, academies--not sure.

3.  Fort Wayne-  Big population, check.  Affluence, community, academies, quality high school coaching staffs--not sure.

can you please give examples of this happening the  region for 25+  years. 

[GenHeavyHandz]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:57 PM, hook and half said:

 

3.  Fort Wayne-  Big population, check.  Affluence, community, academies, quality high school coaching staffs--not sure.

Snider has a new coaching staff and in my humble opinion, after qualifying 8 to the Semi-State: I have to say it's a good start.  As for the other schools; I'll be Switzerland.  I'd say Fort Wayne is more affluent per capita than a lot of the places you mentioned.  Problem is Snider is beating the more affluent schools in our city.  So if money isn't the issue, then what else could it be? 

[MattM]

37 minutes ago, GenHeavyHandz said:

As for the other schools; I'll be Switzerland.

I mean Switzerland County Vevey, IN isn't a big place to visit, but if you want to make the trip I'm sure they have someplace interesting to eat at.   Switzerland (County) hasn't been doing too bad lately for a small school.  Several dedicated youth kids now filtering through the HS system.  Their relative location is close to Cincinnati and near the decent side of Kentucky Wrestling maybe  providing them some off-season training options as well.

Edited February 9 by MattM

[dwise]

On 2/7/2024 at 1:20 PM, DawgPoundRed said:

I think Sonny and Kap pull it out. Sessa closed the gap at Al Smith. The Fans need Sessa vs DeMarco 3 please have extra security ready 

Not sure if true or not, but I heard DeMarco’s Dad isn’t allowed at semi-state or state after Coach Sessa said something to Hayden after his match and DeMarco’s Dad went down and had a conversation with Coach Sessa. If that is true, it’s totally wrong since Coach Sessa instigated it.

[Birdie]

35 minutes ago, dwise said:

Not sure if true or not, but I heard DeMarco’s Dad isn’t allowed at semi-state or state after Coach Sessa said something to Hayden after his match and DeMarco’s Dad went down and had a conversation with Coach Sessa. If that is true, it’s totally wrong since Coach Sessa instigated it.

This sounds more fitting for the thread "have any rumors?"

Edited February 10 by Birdie

[Ghengis86]

13 hours ago, dwise said:

Not sure if true or not, but I heard DeMarco’s Dad isn’t allowed at semi-state or state after Coach Sessa said something to Hayden after his match and DeMarco’s Dad went down and had a conversation with Coach Sessa. If that is true, it’s totally wrong since Coach Sessa instigated it.

 

12 hours ago, Birdie said:

This sounds more fitting for the thread "have any rumors?"

It’s true. He got booted from regionals and now can’t attend SS or state. 

[indypharmd]

Maurer Coughlin

Red Cobra

RWA/Bulldog Premiere (Am I allowed to group them... hahaha)

Contenders

.

.

.

CIA

Outlaws when Bailey ran it

The Fort

 

It's definitely been the ones at the top that have had the staying power over the last decade or so... Kids start at 5-6 years, train with others and then it evolves into which school district is everyone headed to...? Cathedral had runs when CIA/Outlaws were in it's prime. Having staying power at a HS coaching staff with the feeder academies around you are definitely a plus. There's a lot to be said for a high school program to not have to run a club year around and refer kids to the academies - a win-win for everyone except for the wallets of families, but you get what you pay for...

 

Having seen what happens collegiately now with the transfer portal, NIL, etc., it is likely that there will be continued trickle down to the prep levels. 

 

On the flip side, imagine what Chesterton might have been like had everyone "stayed home" the previous 6-8 years...?

 

For those of you questioning BB, there have been a few families that have transitioned in middle school from school districts that border BB's - but like another poster mentioned, the schools in Brownsburg have been considerably better than the surrounding schools in academic/educational ratings - with quite a few success stores in the classroom following a change in enrollment. Additionally,  I can show pictures of old BB club days with many of the recent and current hammers were little tykes at club practice 10-12 years ago, in the pre-Snyder days too... 

 

Another poster had a comment about affluence and being a factor... If that were the case, Carmel/Zionsville and now Westfield/Fishers/HSE should be perennial powers, iykwim... In the post-pandemic economy, it definitely will be interesting to see how future shifts will impact HS sports...

[HWTDAD]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:18 PM, igotcaught said:

Weak is a really poor word choice. CP had 11 champs at regionals and they were rewarded with 6 different semi final matches against top 5 state ranked opponents (4 ranked in the top 2). Brownsburg has 0 possible matchups this weekend against top 5 ranked opponents in the semis. Both teams have 4 wrestlers who will face top 10 ranked opponents just to get to state. This is not me arguing that East Chicago is as tough as Evansville. But to say Crown Point has a weak path at semi state is just untrue. Put Crown Point in Evansville semi state in exchange for brownsburg or center grove and I guarantee CP gets 10+ qualifiers these past 3 seasons. Center Grove literally sent 12 to state last year and Crown Point was significantly stronger than Center Grove was. Crown Point is actually at a disadvantage in some cases since Brownsburg and Center Grove are in the same regional because that splits them apart at semi state. Then Crown Point has to take Brownsburg and Center Grove both in the same day to win state in some cases. You would think if they had such an easy path that they would have less ranked opponents overall as a team in the ticket round and semis but it’s actually the opposite.
 

I’m also not saying it’s like this every year, this is the first year I decided to research both CP and BB’s path to state and was shocked to find overwhelming evidence that proved CP had just as much obstacles thrown at them as brownsburg. Yes I understand Haines vs Henderson is a death draw, but that could of been prevented if Haines took at least 2nd at regionals. Gibbs vs May is a crime but so is Sessa vs Rivera. Two top 8 guys battling to make it. 
 

All I’m saying is Crown Point is gonna have to come prepared Saturday and be ready to battle because this team race is far from over. Crown Point will have to earn this title just like Brownsburg and Center Grove. 

3 of the top 4 teams are at Evansville SS.......js

[dwise]

5 hours ago, Ghengis86 said:

 

It’s true. He got booted from regionals and now can’t attend SS or state. 

Total BS! Coach Sessa told Hayden, “Don’t be a c***sucker”

[igotcaught]

4 hours ago, HWTDAD said:

3 of the top 4 teams are at Evansville SS.......js

The entire point of my post was showing that Crown Point did not have an easy path…. More top 8 ranked wrestlers in EC than Evansville 

[blueandgold]

Them boys taking 12 out of 14 and are dominating. This is crazy.

[Keepitlegal]

On 2/9/2024 at 6:11 PM, dwise said:

Not sure if true or not, but I heard DeMarco’s Dad isn’t allowed at semi-state or state after Coach Sessa said something to Hayden after his match and DeMarco’s Dad went down and had a conversation with Coach Sessa. If that is true, it’s totally wrong since Coach Sessa instigated it.

Not sure who started it- it goes way back, but it’s true that Mr Demarco was kicked out of regionals and banned from SS.  Even though someone had to restrain coach Sessa with a body lock he was allowed allowed to finish coaching regionals and coach at SS.  Don’t care who started it- all coaches should be held to a higher standard and if you can’t objectively coach your kid sit in the stands with the rest of the fans.  

[Coplen187]

11 hours ago, HWTDAD said:

3 of the top 4 teams are at Evansville SS.......js

And none of the top 4 are at new castle or Fort Wayne.  Not sure why its worth throwing shade at the ECC SS. 

 

Some Fort Wayne area schools are  lucky they moved Rochester out.  They'd possibly see a three-peat SS championship as a 1A.

 

Region wrestling is legit.

Edited February 11 by Coplen187

[subliminalharp]

The teams that do the best send their kids to train year round with high level coaching at clubs. Elem/ms feeder programs matter. Having a skilled hs coaching staff that cares (systems, strategy, good technique) matters. Having a team culture of high expectations matters. 
 

Every team that’s been great in the last 30 years has had all of these. 

[Cmoney125]

Let's be real. You can get mad at me for it, I don't care. There is rampant, and I mean rampant tampering and recruiting happening. Some schools are better at it than others. But it's happening and it's a problem. Everyone knows, no one wants to open the can of worms. I cam show you my son's phone if you think I'm BSing.

[ontherise219]

I think pre high school recruiting makes it easier especially when a lot of these guys are the same summer teams and we know wrestling parents like to have a good time and I am sure the convo of wouldn’t it be cool if we went to high school together 

[TrueRegionFan]

7 minutes ago, Cmoney125 said:

Let's be real. You can get mad at me for it, I don't care. There is rampant, and I mean rampant tampering and recruiting happening. Some schools are better at it than others. But it's happening and it's a problem. Everyone knows, no one wants to open the can of worms. I cam show you my son's phone if you think I'm BSing.

Are you claiming coaches are recruiting or parents are recruiting?  I don't believe either.  If you have proof, show it.

[ontherise219]

1 minute ago, TrueRegionFan said:

Are you claiming coaches are recruiting or parents are recruiting?  I don't believe either.  If you have proof, show it.

i am probably not the right person to ask that question because i do have a lot of text from around the state about open recruiting that i can share if you really want me too. Incoming 8th graders now, graduated wrestlers, wrestlers who wrestle out of state. 
 

or we can keep it as a joke and say kids want to wrestle with their buddies 

[Christopher Bohn]

Honestly, I think kids can go where they and their parents think will suit them best.  If they want to uproot their family and move into a district, then more power to them.  Also, I think it's bullshit that kids can't transfer freely.  They wouldn't want to transfer if they felt that their best interests lie with staying with the same program.  I get it, if these were the rules, the top schools in the state would have to work double to get kids, but..... like I've said, I truly believe people should be able to make what choice they feel will provide the best future for themselves.  There's a reason my family chose Munster and we moved CJ and his ketchup on hotdog loving mother into the district, and, believe it or not, it wasn't because they are a wrestling powerhouse.  

[TrueRegionFan]

20 minutes ago, Christopher Bohn said:

Honestly, I think kids can go where they and their parents think will suit them best.  If they want to uproot their family and move into a district, then more power to them.  Also, I think it's bullshit that kids can't transfer freely.  They wouldn't want to transfer if they felt that their best interests lie with staying with the same program.  I get it, if these were the rules, the top schools in the state would have to work double to get kids, but..... like I've said, I truly believe people should be able to make what choice they feel will provide the best future for themselves.  There's a reason my family chose Munster and we moved CJ and his ketchup on hotdog loving mother into the district, and, believe it or not, it wasn't because they are a wrestling powerhouse.  

Mr Bohn, 

First, I enjoyed watching your son wrestle yesterday.  Kid is a stud!  Very crafty and sneaky quick!  Second, I was there with my brother and explained to him who you were as he got us a couple of hotdogs to try.  Interested in your write up and perspective. If I were to be kind, I would give them maybe 2 pizza slices. Lastly, I completely agree with your take on parents should be allowed to place their kids in the best environment that would offer the best opportunity for success in life.  And wrestling isn't the only factor in that decision.  

Edited February 11 by TrueRegionFan

[tonyzirkle]

12 minutes ago, TrueRegionFan said:

Are you claiming coaches are recruiting or parents are recruiting?  I don't believe either.  If you have proof, show it.

Proof? Is this coincidence?

 

CP move-ins off the top of my head (correct me if wrong) in recent years:

Chesterton: Goin

Portage: Roberson, 2 Moran (?)

Lowell: 2 Cruz

Lake Central: Mendez, Goodwin

Michigan: Bettich 

Illinois: Uribe, Estrada

East Central: Shepherd

Hobart: Lewis 

Valpo: Murphy who went back to PA after getting a year ban

Griffith: Tsirtsis

 

Avon to BB

Garcia, Brewer (older one beat a kid from Ohio who transferred to Culver)

 

CG

Riser commented recently that a lot of CG families who used go to Cathedral are now staying home. 
 

There are valid arguments on both sides of this debate. The good part about recruiting or allowing transfers is that Indiana has 3 teams good enough to compete at Iron Man and these teams are getting IN kids more ready for college with better daily practice partners. 
 

The negative side is a greater incentive to red shirt 8th grade year if you hope someday to even be a to make varsity and the risk that you’ll find out how disposable and replaceable you are when a coach makes you forfeit after an illegal move injured you. Cruz and Haines, for example. 
 

IHSAA can’t consistently and fairly enforce the transfer rule when kids can just move before class starts freshman year, when they can just have their AD sign off, or when they can skirt the rules if that $1 assistant coach end run claim is true. 
 

Cathedral and Mater Dei have recruited from anywhere they want for decades. Should we now penalize the public schools? Why should Blair Academy in NJ get to recruit Ferrari from

TX and Wyoming Seminary get to have Murphy from Valpo?  

 

The only thing I’m confident about is that we should consider massive move-in talent before giving national coach of the year awards. 

[Christopher Bohn]

1 hour ago, tonyzirkle said:

Proof? Is this coincidence?

 

CP move-ins off the top of my head (correct me if wrong) in recent years:

Chesterton: Goin

Portage: Roberson, 2 Moran (?)

Lowell: 2 Cruz

Lake Central: Mendez, Goodwin

Michigan: Bettich 

Illinois: Uribe, Estrada

East Central: Shepherd

Hobart: Lewis 

Valpo: Murphy who went back to PA after getting a year ban

Griffith: Tsirtsis

 

Avon to BB

Garcia, Brewer (older one beat a kid from Ohio who transferred to Culver)

 

CG

Riser commented recently that a lot of CG families who used go to Cathedral are now staying home. 
 

There are valid arguments on both sides of this debate. The good part about recruiting or allowing transfers is that Indiana has 3 teams good enough to compete at Iron Man and these teams are getting IN kids more ready for college with better daily practice partners. 
 

The negative side is a greater incentive to red shirt 8th grade year if you hope someday to even be a to make varsity and the risk that you’ll find out how disposable and replaceable you are when a coach makes you forfeit after an illegal move injured you. Cruz and Haines, for example. 
 

IHSAA can’t consistently and fairly enforce the transfer rule when kids can just move before class starts freshman year, when they can just have their AD sign off, or when they can skirt the rules if that $1 assistant coach end run claim is true. 
 

Cathedral and Mater Dei have recruited from anywhere they want for decades. Should we now penalize the public schools? Why should Blair Academy in NJ get to recruit Ferrari from

TX and Wyoming Seminary get to have Murphy from Valpo?  

 

The only thing I’m confident about is that we should consider massive move-in talent before giving national coach of the year awards. 

It's kind of the natural evolution of things.  I remember when I was a kid wrestling, there weren't really any year long programs around.  Maybe a summer camp you had to drive a few hours away for 3 or 4 days, but not really dedicated youth programs.  It's not like I don't see the negatives to it, but, if it's already happening, what's the point in hiding it.  

[Cmoney125]

2 hours ago, Christopher Bohn said:

Honestly, I think kids can go where they and their parents think will suit them best.  If they want to uproot their family and move into a district, then more power to them.  Also, I think it's bullshit that kids can't transfer freely.  They wouldn't want to transfer if they felt that their best interests lie with staying with the same program.  I get it, if these were the rules, the top schools in the state would have to work double to get kids, but..... like I've said, I truly believe people should be able to make what choice they feel will provide the best future for themselves.  There's a reason my family chose Munster and we moved CJ and his ketchup on hotdog loving mother into the district, and, believe it or not, it wasn't because they are a wrestling powerhouse.  

People who physically move are literally doing it the proper and legal way. Nothing to do with what im saying.