blueandgold

This is a topic I originally posted on the InterMat board and I wanted to bring it here. You can see the original post and responses in this link: https://intermatwrestle.com/forums/topic/4384-is-goat-talk-in-wrestling-only-centered-around-championships/#comment-147755 With all of the recent media coverage of Caitlin Clark in Women's Basketball and what she's done during her tenure at Iowa despite never winning an NCAA Championship, I am curious if the same kind of conversations can be held in wrestling even if they rarely are. As a Hawkeye, Caitlin Clark has been a three-time NCAA season scoring leader, named player of the year twice by three different publications, a Sullivan Award winner, Big Ten player of the year three times, first-team All-Big Ten four times, a three-time unanimous first-team All-American, and the NCAA Division I all-time leading scorer among other accolades. Despite her elite résumé, she is a two-time national runner-up. Now, I understand basketball is a team sport, but take a career like Daton Fix's into consideration; he is a five-time Big 12 champion, a four-time NCAA runner-up, a U.S. Open champion, Pan Am and Pan Am Games champion, and UWW world silver medalist while part of the Cowboys. Is he considered to be in GOAT/All-Time Great talks the same way athletes from other sports are, or is it negated due to his lack of NCAA championships? For a hypothetical, let's say a wrestler in the Big Ten won everything imaginable minus the Hodge and NCAA title (ex.: Fix), could he still be in contention with a résumé like this? Fictional Career (For Post) 131-4 career record Four-time NCAA Finalist Four-time Big Ten Champion Three-time Most Dominant Wrestler Three-time Gorriaran Award NCAA season takedowns leader NCAA season escapes leader NCAA Division I all-time takedowns leader Three-time Big Ten Wrestler of the Year Big Ten Freshman of the Year NWCA All-Rookie Team If this were an Indiana high school wrestler, take someone like Delaney Ruhlman, Vinny Corsaro, Tristen Tonte, or even Brandon James who are frequently mentioned amongst the greats or for a fictional example, say a wrestler won four semi-state, regional, sectional, conference, county, and holiday tournament titles but always got beat every season by the same person like a Jesse Mendez or Andrew Howe, can he still be in GOAT contention?

The title says it all. What is the best takedown you have ever seen and who was it by? My Pick: Wesley Bernard’s arm drag to a double leg to a half on the way down against Shawn Streck in the 2014 State semifinals.

CA runs both the perfect state tournament and qualifiers in my opinion. I like the way the CIF has its league championships which help for seeding for its section championships, then its section masters, and finally their state championships. They have a 64-man bracket, seeding, wrestlebacks, and wrestle under the lights in sunny California. I’ve been to CA twice now and I hope to watch their state championships in the future.

Bored and haven’t done this in awhile. Obviously we’ll never see them, but take your picks on these fantasy matches. 113: Revin Dickman (Brownsburg) vs. Alex Cottey (Perry Meridian) 120: Charlie LaRocca (Center Grove) vs. Drew Hildebrandt (Penn) 132: Jake Hockaday (Brownsburg) vs. Zeke Seltzer (Cathedral) 165/170: Waylon Cressel (Warren Central) vs. Dylan Lydy (Ben Davis) 215/220: Will Clark (Crown Point) vs. Gelen Robinson (Lake Central)

Sometimes, I’ll go back and look at old brackets to see how things have played out in high school years later. This Novice 70 bracket from 2018 stood out to me as well as several others. Here were the top eight finishers. It’s interesting to see what all of these kids have done in the six years since then. Novice - 70 Guaranteed Places 1st Place - Parker Reynolds of Contenders Wrestling Academy 2nd Place - Evan Stanley of Region Wrestling Academy 3rd Place - Landen Haines of Red Cobra Wrestling Academy 4th Place - Chase Stephens of Maurer Coughlin WC 5th Place - Camden Baumann of Maurer Coughlin WC 6th Place - Jeffrey Huyvaert of Rochester WC 7th Place - Gavin Jendreas of Bulldog Premier WC 8th Place - Asher Harter of Greenwood WC

They must not wanna see him repeat.

I believe Cody LeGOAT pinned Bo Nickal as a Schoolboy. I know Jared McKinley defeated Brandon Sorensen and Kirk Johnson teched Isaiah Martinez at Fargo in the 7th Place Match in 2012.

Looking at it, Brandon James might be the most accomplished in all seriousness. He may have never won a title, but he was our first four-time medalist (3, 5, 2, 3) and he placed at every major tournament in the United States. He is also the only Indiana wrestler to defeat Chad Red during high school.

Hov meme makes you a legend off rip.

PM has a crap ton for the argument. Chico Adams - 157-8 record, 2× State Champion Alex Cottey - 164-8 record, 4× State Finalist, 2× State Champion, 2018 Junior Freestyle All-American Cody LeCount - 180-2 record, 3× State Finalist, 2× State Champion, 2012 Cadet Freestyle Finalist Jared McKinley - 201-8 record, 2× State Champion, 2× Junior Freestyle All-American Nate Moore - 101-1 record (last two seasons), 2× State Champion, Junior Freestyle National Champion Nick Walpole - 197-18 record, 2005 State Champion Noah Warren - 166-9 record, 2× State Finalist, 2018 State Champion, NHSCA Sophomore All-American Donte Winfield - 88-4 record (last two seasons), 2013 State Champion, 2012 Junior Freestyle National Finalist Brandon James - 169-8 record, 4× State Medalist, 2014 State Finalist, NHSCA Senior All-American, 2013 Junior Freestyle All-American, 2× Cadet Freestyle All-American, 2012 Super 32 All-American If we are to include accolades beyond high school, Winfield was an NJCAA All-American for Harper College, Adams and James were NAIA All-Americans, and Walpole is an NCAA Division II National Champion for the University of Indianapolis, the only champion in school history. Also, not listed above was Nick Bova who was a three-time state medalist in high school and a two-time NCAA Division III All-American for Wabash College.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t special introductions and post-match recognition on the podium for the following: 4× State Champion 4× State Finalist (ex.: Alex Cottey, Brandon Wright) 4× State Medalist 3× State Champion

Their match at 2016 Harvest Classic was a classic.

Just goes to show the depth at PSU because I’m willing to bet they could go anywhere else in the nation and start.

Revin Dickman and Nate Rioux have wrestled 11 times now if I’m correct? May need @TeamGarcia to help on this one, but I’m pretty sure Asa and Ty Mills wrestled over a dozen times in high school? Does anyone have numbers for a match-up that took place 5+ times? 10+ even?

The fact that we got Nick Lee and Chad Red in the finals is insane and the success they’ve both went on to have… I’ll forever hold my senior year (2016) up as the best senior class and best year of champions.