Jump to content
decbell1

Seeding Meeting Change???

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, nkraus said:

hassle

No doubt....win by ff is still a win correct? Not kids fault opposing schools had to ff a weight.

However, last year a kid whose only wins were ff's got seeded ahead of kid with a worse record, yet his wins were actually against kids in 1 sectional that i know of

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rookie78 said:

"For seeding purposes, forfeits should not be included in a wrestler’s record."

What is the definition of "should", or I guess "should not" be?

 

 

 

Im not seeing no CAN'T or shall not.. I make weight and check In ready to get after it AND collect 6 for my squad and you mean to tell me that is a strike against me due to the opposition's short comings? Hmm..Seems  legit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it's an effort to account for strength of schedule.

Just an example of why this is a good idea.... one kid is 22-9, another 8-4.  No head to head, no common opponents.  22-9 is a better win %, but the 22-9 kid has received 16 forfeits.  So you really are looking at a kid who is 6-9 in matches wrestled, compared to the one that is 8-4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, aoberlin said:

I think wins against 1A schools shouldn’t count either.

Or...... if you get beat by a really good kid that nobody else in the bracket has wrestled shouldn’t count either.

Just count wins and loses to average kids. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mattyb said:

Or...... if you get beat by a really good kid that nobody else in the bracket has wrestled shouldn’t count either.

Just count wins and loses to average kids. 

One time I heard a coach say. “But it was a spladle!”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Chris Cooper said:

I believe it's an effort to account for strength of schedule.

Just an example of why this is a good idea.... one kid is 22-9, another 8-4.  No head to head, no common opponents.  22-9 is a better win %, but the 22-9 kid has received 16 forfeits.  So you really are looking at a kid who is 6-9 in matches wrestled, compared to the one that is 8-4.

Really 16 forfeits..thats highly unlikely..who comes.up with this b.s....i mean really...stay out of our meetings.already

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the point of it, but as pointed out it not the wrestler fault no one walked out to wrestle him (actual weight FF, bumping a kid, avoiding an opponent).   Definitely don’t like it when someone adds in another rule or rule interpretation this late in the season.  Put it in place prior to the start of the season so everyone is on the same page, unless it’s a safety thing don’t spring things on coaches/wrestlers in the last hour.    

Next for critetia are they going to say you only get credit for one win or penalized for one lose per opponent.  Or only win/loses at that specific weight class count. Or wins/loses against V2 don’t count.  Seems like a downward spiral.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I many cases if coaches would use common sense, honesty, and a little bit of collaboration you can seed the sectional in the correct way with minimal criteria.   Unfortunately it seems rare for some people to throw aside their bias when the blatantly correct seeding is right in front of their face.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like this could cause a situation of ducking in order to force a team to take a forfeit, thus diluting the wrestlers win percentage. Let's say team A has a kid who is 23-6 wrestling team B at a duper dual with a guy in the same weight class who has a record of 22-6. In theory, team A could "win" the seeding by simply not sending the wrestler out. Wrestler from B gets the "win" thus securing the same record, but since that last win is a forfeit, the 23-6 from team A gets the seed...shadier things have happened...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, MattM said:

I get the point of it, but as pointed out it not the wrestler fault no one walked out to wrestle him (actual weight FF, bumping a kid, avoiding an opponent).   Definitely don’t like it when someone adds in another rule or rule interpretation this late in the season.  Put it in place prior to the start of the season so everyone is on the same page, unless it’s a safety thing don’t spring things on coaches/wrestlers in the last hour.    

Next for critetia are they going to say you only get credit for one win or penalized for one lose per opponent.  Or only win/loses at that specific weight class count. Or wins/loses against V2 don’t count.  Seems like a downward spiral.   

This was discussed at the end of last season and the beginning of this season at the coaches clinics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to create havoc. For instance we wrestled a sectional opponent this year and they forfeited a few weights to us that they had guys that wrestled the previous round. Now my kid is being punished for them not wrestling us for whatever reason it was(good, bad, or ugly).

I'm hoping our fearless IHSWCA leader has contacted Mr. Faulkens to discuss this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, poppe66 said:

This was discussed at the end of last season and the beginning of this season at the coaches clinics.

Discussed or implemented?  Cause it sounds like the first time people are talking about it being implemented as something that should be done.  Just trying figure out why many people including coaches are unaware of it until now.  Was it added to the winter bullitin recently or was it in at the beginning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the exact email formatting and all.
Please be advised that page 84 of the Wrestling Bulletin does not include a complete reading of the appropriate language regarding Win Percentage.  The following passage reads as the Coach Association intended and asked.  Corrections are in bold.                                                                                                                                        d.  Win percentage. A contestant with the best overall record (winning percentage) who has wrestled at least 10 matches; For seeding purposes, forfeits should not be included in a wrestler’s record. 
                                       
                                Matches which end as a result of disqualification, injury, or technical violation are to be included in the won-loss record.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the penalty if we just don't do it that way. A forfeits a win, plain and simple. If we start doing it that way no one is going to wrestle small teams because you don't even get the benefit of the win for your kid making weight and traveling to the duel. This a stupid idea. Not to mention how are you going to know if a win is from a FF, are we going to have to go threw everyone's book, or send the books in prior to seeding so everyone can check your wins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That WILL be the change. Have your records ready to reflect actual match wins and FFTS. You will also probably be asked to see dual meet lineups to see if a kid bumped, weighed in and sat or whatever.  Good times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this is the case... I see teams weigh-in kids and then forfeit to studs to preserve records (if the meet is in hand). The good kids lose a win (which results in a lower win percentage). The kid that is dodging loses nothing. 

With this said... if a team weighs-in a kid in or has a kid that is eligible to wrestle and doesn’t send a kid out there, that kid should take the loss on his record and the kid that gets the forfeit should be able to count the win! 

Talk about a can of worms!!! Smh 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.