Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Sig40

Boycott Freestyle State

Recommended Posts

I'm no longer an iswa board member so I'm out of the loop. With this said... Has anyone actually called a board member. To be honest... Very few board members get on this site (with exception to my brother Jmill). Also... I have been at every ISWA freestyle and Greco state for over a decade. Very few people if any actually walk up to the state chair or vice chairs and discuss stuff like this man to man. I'm not taking sides on this issue, but I would like to see some of the people that are crazy vocal on this message board, pick up there phone and call the powers to be. Or.... Better yet talk to them person to person. I can not say without a doubt that this will help or solve the problem, but.... I assure you that it will solve more issues than getting on this board a spewing venom. Again, I'm not taking sides in this matter, but if people feel this passionate about the issue I would love to hear how a conversation goes between them and a chair at the iswa.

 

Btw... That's how I became a board member to start with. I had concerns and ideas. I went to the iswa with my ideas, and they thought they were good. They then asked if I could give of myself to make wrestling better here, and I gladly stepped up and did what I could.

 

This message is not geared to anyone.... So, please do not take it the wrong way. The bottom line is this... Don't talk about it be about it!

I just got off the phone with Louis Rosbottom and he denied my request for 1 tournament exemption.  My argument was that we set our schedule when they set their schedule on their site.  We set aside this weekend and next, but then Penn moved there tournament just a week ago.  By this time we already made other commitments and also passed on wrestling on Bailey's national dual team march 26th.  I asked for an exemption for the 2 weekends that we are wrestling for ISWA's teams(middle school nationals and heartland duals).  I asked him why they are punishing a wrestler that worked his butt off to make both these teams as a 6th grader.  He said there will not be any waivers.

 

I also offered to pay host tournaments entry fee and he stated that it is not about money, but about wrestling opportunity it gives all the athletes.  Well then they should make sure there is a tournament offered every weekend. I just cancelled our hotel for Columbia City this weekend because if we can't get 2 in then why go to any of them.  Sucks it has to be this way.  I was bringing a few kids with me that were in the same boat, oh well.

 

We could careless about wrestling in the state tournament and going for a triple crown, it is really about not getting to wrestle in the schoolboy duals.  They can keep this dumbass rule if they want, but they need to host tryouts for schoolboy duals to insure that the best kids are represented on that team. 

Edited by Sig40

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, Sig....

 

Guess that is quite the conundrum for ISWA and Mr. Hull and their mandate. They want to make the state better/more competitive in the styles but the best kids won't qualify for Team IN due to not competing at State and if they have tryouts for schoolboy/cadet teams then that tends to defeat the purpose of their mandate of growing attendance of the styles and the clubs. If they have tryouts for Schoolboy duals then they face the wrath of those that followed their rules and paid their fees and demand Little Johnny be on Team IN. Who do you think they'll listen too? Strange that the Juniors for Team IN Natl Duals are handpicked the past 2 years but Juniors still have to go thru this 2 event rule if they want to qualify for Fargo?

 

I'm sure it will all work out for the best...or not!

 

PS...Yes, I did email ISWA last year but did not call or attend a meeting. The email said all I needed to hear..and was very similar to the response Sig got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, Sig....

 

Guess that is quite the conundrum for ISWA and Mr. Hull and their mandate. They want to make the state better/more competitive in the styles but the best kids won't qualify for Team IN due to not competing at State and if they have tryouts for schoolboy/cadet teams then that tends to defeat the purpose of their mandate of growing attendance of the styles and the clubs. If they have tryouts for Schoolboy duals then they face the wrath of those that followed their rules and paid their fees and demand Little Johnny be on Team IN. Who do you think they'll listen too? Strange that the Juniors for Team IN Natl Duals are handpicked the past 2 years but Juniors still have to go thru this 2 event rule if they want to qualify for Fargo?

 

I'm sure it will all work out for the best...or not!

 

PS...Yes, I did email ISWA last year but did not call or attend a meeting. The email said all I needed to hear..and was very similar to the response Sig got.

Actually there were quite a few wrestlers that went to Fargo last year that didn't go to freestyle state.

 

By my count there were 15 guys that didn't wrestle at freestyle state, nor earned a spot at Central Regionals that went to Fargo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the frustration and yeah I agree with most of it.  One thing to keep in mind.  Imop iswa is cleaning up a huge mess USA Wrestling made that was decades in the creation.  ISWA is trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube USAW stomped on.

 

USAW wanted all those folkstyle dollars.  ISWA was one of the strongest fs states for many years with very little folkstyle.  USAW forced ISWA to offer more and more folk tourneys.  USAW destroyed the strong indiana fs culture we had in the 80s, 90s, and very early 00s.  USAW is responsible for short-sighted mandates to grab folk $$$$ and in-turn obliterated fs.

 

Go ahead and debate the 2 qualifier as much as we want.  But don't let USAW off the hook for their horrible decisions.  USAW is directly responsible for manufacturing this entire national catastrophe we have with youth fs and gr. 

 

In order to correct the situation, USAW should be doing a huge mea culpa and investing massive money and resources back into state orgs like iswa to fix the very youth fs and gr programs they vaporized. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got off the phone with Louis Rosbottom and he denied my request for 1 tournament exemption.  My argument was that we set our schedule when they set their schedule on their site.  We set aside this weekend and next, but then Penn moved there tournament just a week ago.  By this time we already made other commitments and also passed on wrestling on Bailey's national dual team march 26th.  I asked for an exemption for the 2 weekends that we are wrestling for ISWA's teams(middle school nationals and heartland duals).  I asked him why they are punishing a wrestler that worked his butt off to make both these teams as a 6th grader.  He said there will not be any waivers.

 

I also offered to pay host tournaments entry fee and he stated that it is not about money, but about wrestling opportunity it gives all the athletes.  Well then they should make sure there is a tournament offered every weekend. I just cancelled our hotel for Columbia City this weekend because if we can't get 2 in then why go to any of them.  Sucks it has to be this way.  I was bringing a few kids with me that were in the same boat, oh well.

 

We could careless about wrestling in the state tournament and going for a triple crown, it is really about not getting to wrestle in the schoolboy duals.  They can keep this dumbass rule if they want, but they need to host tryouts for schoolboy duals to insure that the best kids are represented on that team. 

Dang!!! Again, I had no clue of what the outcome would be. I know that your boy is a stud, and will have great success in the future. Not having him on the schoolboy national team is a BAD thing. I just figured that calling may open eyes to your situation. For what its worth..... I'm sorry that you are in this situation. I know you are doing the best for your boy and Indiana wrestling. You are a huge reason, why the Elementary team will be very good this year (got kids out). See you guys soon.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I know it is not a good outcome for you and your son Sig (wonderful kid and family btw), I hope this sets the precedence for the situation at hand. Hopefully everyone who participates at FS state will have their 2 qualifiers in. No waivers, exemptions, or whatever you want to call em rules are set and must be followed which was the whole issue last year. The flip-floppiness is almost worse than a questionable rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apropos of nothing but on topic of this thread....

 

MYWAY (Michigan Association) is barring kids from their tournaments next year if they qualified for their state FK tourney and do not show up to wrestle it! Wonder how that's going over since their state tourney is Apr 1-3 the same time as some Natl tourneys? Maybe ISWA ain't so bad.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apropos of nothing but on topic of this thread....

 

MYWAY (Michigan Association) is barring kids from their tournaments next year if they qualified for their state FK tourney and do not show up to wrestle it! Wonder how that's going over since their state tourney is Apr 1-3 the same time as some Natl tourneys? Maybe ISWA ain't so bad.....

April 1-3 is USA Nationals which is ISWA's national tournament.  MYWAY promotes NUWAY, which is why they are doing this.  They would never screw over their national wrestlers for wrestling in NUWAY or the NUWAY teams they put together.  So don't try to cast ISWA in a good light. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a proven fact that our kids wrestle too much and don't practice enough.  Ask any other country in the world and they will tell you we do the exact opposite of what they do.  We do not get the results other countries do...hmmm.

 

 

I've always agreed with that logic.  If you look at collegiate programs their ratio of hours spent training versus competing is much larger than our youth's.  I was just wondering if there was any data or scientific articles you have run across that cover this topic?  Just asking for my own interest, I'm not trying to combat your statement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually there were quite a few wrestlers that went to Fargo last year that didn't go to freestyle state.

 

By my count there were 15 guys that didn't wrestle at freestyle state, nor earned a spot at Central Regionals that went to Fargo.

 

ISWA would not want to look bad nationally... it is only ok to look bad within the state...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always agreed with that logic.  If you look at collegiate programs their ratio of hours spent training versus competing is much larger than our youth's.  I was just wondering if there was any data or scientific articles you have run across that cover this topic?  Just asking for my own interest, I'm not trying to combat your statement. 

I wouldn't say that I have scientific articles.  I have read many articles about youth sports that talk about this notion that we have to compete more than we train. Couple things kind of got me on to this idea about 10 years ago.  Jim Humphrey was doing an RTC at Peru and as the kids were wrestling live, he and I got on the subject and really opened my eyes.  The main thing I remember is him saying that we wrestle too much and don't practice enough.  We don't drill enough and work on the basics enough.  He said kids should not be competing every weekend and they should limit the number of national tourneys.  So, one thing I've tried to do when I go to camps or clinics is pick the brain of the clinician on this subject.  I have spoken to Valentin Kahlika (hopefully I spelled it correctly)...he is Aaron Pico's coach and he was adamant that we have our system backward in the U.S.  Jake Herbert came and did a 2 day clinic at Rochester and we talked a lot about their BASE system and it is very similar to what Valentin said.  The Soviets do it completely opposite of what we do.  When their kids start out, they spend 2-3 years doing tumbling and basic drills.  No competition and very little "live" wrestling.  The next 2-3 years, they continue with this path, adding more technique and "live".  They really start working on sparring and play wrestling at this point.  Kids might attend 2-3 tournaments in their region.  Once they are teenagers, is when they really start competing.  But here is the kicker...they still only compete about 5-7 times per year.  Jake and Valentin both said we put too much emphasis on competition and weight cutting.  I've talked to Tom Brands, Terry Brands, Cael Sanderson, John Smith, Bruce Baumgartner, Brandon Slay, and basically any other coach that has come to Wabash College's camp.  While they all have a little different spin on it, they all agree that we compete too much.  One of the things Valentin and Herbert both said is that sparring or play wrestling is vital to development.

 

There are some good articles out there on Russian Wrestling, specifically one region in Russia that has developed like 90% of all their Gold Medalists in freestyle wrestling.  My numbers might be off but it is a crazy stat.  Andy Hrovat went and trained there for 6 months and that is where he developed his ideas for the BASE system.  He kept a blog and talked a lot about how they do things.  It was very interesting.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Clint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay I've flip flopped a bit on this issue. But now I'm done with freestyle as far as the ISWA goes. And for good. And i'll recommend the same going forward. Both my sons had injuries at folkstyle state one shoulder another ankle. both were forced to stay home from cedar falls and both were also forced to miss scholastic duels opportunities in Crawfordsville this weekend. Neither has been released from the doctors care and are currently rehabbing. Even though neither may be ready by the first weekend in May I wrote the ISWA for a waiver given the fact that neither will have an opportunity to qualify due to their injuries. I was told NO. I have all the documentation needed from their doctors yet still NO. Two kids that want to compete and are physically unable to qualify yet cant get a waiver. No waiver even in the case of medical issues is unacceptable.

 

It shouldn't be this difficult to compete. Just avoid these ridiculous issues and forget that the ISWA has a freestyle event.

Edited by MCKAJC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a friend who moved here from out of state and he's sort of considering doing a little bit of wrestling. He is a veteran. Do veterans also have the two meet minimum to be able to participate in freestyle state? Most of the local tourneys only go up to junior, so I wasn't sure what to tell him. I looked on the freestyle state flyer, and it appears they would also need two meets, but I'm not positive. Does anyone know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a friend who moved here from out of state and he's sort of considering doing a little bit of wrestling. He is a veteran. Do veterans also have the two meet minimum to be able to participate in freestyle state? Most of the local tourneys only go up to junior, so I wasn't sure what to tell him. I looked on the freestyle state flyer, and it appears they would also need two meets, but I'm not positive. Does anyone know?

I don't believe they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea they paid the iswa sanction fees to have it. It is Warren, Perry, and Indiana Pride. What a great idea. Hopefully more schools do it and get more kids qualified for state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea they paid the iswa sanction fees to have it. It is Warren, Perry, and Indiana Pride. What a great idea. Hopefully more schools do it and get more kids qualified for state.

So if we pay the sanction fee we can we just call our RTC tonight a qualifier?

 

Will there be any more of these duals going on so kids can get their elusive qualifiers in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't see what they could say. Make it a round robin three matches and your done or a dual. I would like to see a few RTC's come together split the fees and have a rd robin. Three matches and your done in a couple hours. What's the difference then Penn and Carmel's dual being a qualifier.

Edited by lewdwar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice if each section of the state had a last chance qualifier type event near the end of the Freestyle season for those needing one more event (or those just wanting more mat time).  Maybe set it up similar to how Penn did a event a few year back  where they didn't have brackets, but instead just paired up kids from similar weights and age groups to wrestle each other. After each match the kids just went back to their staging area, found another kids in their age division and close to their weight, got back in line and waited to wrestle again.  As long as this is done in a safe way (checking to ensure they kids are from similar age divisions and weight classes) I think it would work out great.  I know several people were pleased with how that Penn event went, especially since most walked away with several more matches than they would get at most tournament.  Winning the bracket and getting a medal didn't seem to important to most of them compared getting enough matches to make it worth spending msot of the day in the gym.  

 

In fact this seems like a event model that would actually encourage more wrestlers to attend freestyle events in general.  With the right organization it could possibly be something worth doing at both the start of the season (early mat-time) and the end of the season (a last chance qualifier) in each of area of the state.  

Edited by MattM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't see what they could say. Make it a round robin three matches and your done or a dual. I would like to see a few RTC's come together split the fees and have a rd robin. Three matches and your done in a couple hours. What's the difference then Penn and Carmel's dual being a qualifier.

The biggest difference I see is that Carmel and Penn both advertised their events for everyone to come. I may have been able to bring a few kids to Perry for this event if we would have known about it. I'm sure there are many others like Carmel or CIA that might be interested in bring kids to get another qualifier in also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another difference is ISWA clearly stated you need 2 and then puts out the list of events on it's website and says here is the weekends/locations to try to schedule everything else around..but then at the last second says "oh, BTW...if you pay us the sanction fee you can have your event in the middle of the week at a time and place convenient for you"!!!  How fair is that for the "North" kids that drove 2.5 hours down to Warren on Saturday to "support the local club" on a gorgeous Spring Day but now I'm sure there will be a couple of these "tri-dual" qualifiers popping up in more convenient locales at more convenient times?

Edited by UncleJimmy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All you need is a gym or wrestling room and a mat. Any school can do it. Seems pretty fair. Why does it have to be on a weekend.

Edited by lewdwar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.