Boycott Freestyle State

[Timeinandout]

Coach Hull already mentioned that very few of his kids needed an additional "qualifier."  I coach at Perry and that is the same for us.  We had 80 some kids from our club wrestle in our freestyle tourney.  I believe we had about 50 wrestle at Warren's freestyle/Greco.  I haven't looked, but I would guess we will have around the same wrestle at Franklin this Saturday.  I was there at Warren's phantom 3-way.  Coach Hull is a little off.  The number was more like 160.  We put kids in groups of 4 and had a round robin.  Aside from a running clock there wasn't much different from a Saturday tourney.  There were high school kids officiating along with 3 blue shirt "pros."  We had parents mad because the score was wrong, coaches telling parents to let them coach, etc.  It was great.  Our club had talked about doing something similar as a fundraiser. 

 

I understand that most of the people upset aren't lucky enough to have 3 tournaments close(Perry, Warren, Franklin for us), so it seems like this was just done to help kids qualify for state.  We talked about putting some duals together after seeing some of the dual tournies on the weekend. 

 

Coach Richardson

PM

[grecoref]

Coach Hull already mentioned that very few of his kids needed an additional "qualifier."  I coach at Perry and that is the same for us.  We had 80 some kids from our club wrestle in our freestyle tourney.  I believe we had about 50 wrestle at Warren's freestyle/Greco.  I haven't looked, but I would guess we will have around the same wrestle at Franklin this Saturday.  I was there at Warren's phantom 3-way.  Coach Hull is a little off.  The number was more like 160.  We put kids in groups of 4 and had a round robin.  Aside from a running clock there wasn't much different from a Saturday tourney.  There were high school kids officiating along with 3 blue shirt "pros."  We had parents mad because the score was wrong, coaches telling parents to let them coach, etc.  It was great.  Our club had talked about doing something similar as a fundraiser. 

 

I understand that most of the people upset aren't lucky enough to have 3 tournaments close(Perry, Warren, Franklin for us), so it seems like this was just done to help kids qualify for state.  We talked about putting some duals together after seeing some of the dual tournies on the weekend. 

 

Coach Richardson

PM

 

I really wish I would have been able to work this. Since my divorce 8 years ago I kind of miss being screamed at in the middle of the week.

[Coach Gill]

My high school Football coach used to say....

 

"You are either part of the problem; or part of the solution" --- Dick Dullaghan

 

All the bickering and griping amongst one another isn't going to get more kids on the mat.  Lets figure out how to solve this thing; not figure out how to argue more.

 

He (my high school football coach) used to also say, "Gill make the damn tackle, keep your head up, go sit your rear end on the bench" and a multitude of other quotes that don't fit here.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Coach Gill

[Clan Campbell]

Seems we've heard now that mostly no wrestler in attendance to the mystery tournament actually needed it for qualification.  Considering how much heartburn that said tournament seems to have caused across the state, I'd think that the directors for those clubs would then consider not treating the tournament as a qualifier.  For the sake of strengthening the continuity and integrity of the sport and ISWA, I would think said directors would take the high road, recognize the heartburn they've created, and "waive" the consideration of this mystery tournament as a qualifier.  So, along coach Hull's line of discussion, its in the hands of the three clubs to do the right thing.  Seems like nothing to lose, so why take a stand on having the mystery tournament count as a qualifier?  problem solved, at least regarding the perceived foul play many of us have. 

 

Kudos for pulling together so many kids on a weeknight and having what sounds like a great night of wrestling, sounds like it made the kids better, which seems to be your real intent here, not skirting the rules.

[Mattyb]

I think that it should be counted. Furthermore, I think that these weeknight tournaments may be just the thing to save Freestyle wresting in Indiana. After a long club season, it is very hard for me to sell people on sitting in a gym every weekend for two more months (when it starts to get warm again). If we could get a couple of freestyle practices and a mini tournament in during the week, it would help me to keep kids going. It will also help our studs to get more actual freestyle matches in during their national schedules.

 

Here is what I picture:

Four mats- Divide them into half mats (8 surfaces total).

Cap the tournament at around 128 kids.

Put the kids in groups of four (closest to weight).

Put four groups of four on each surface.

Each group wrestles round robin for 3 rounds (each group will have 2 matches per group per round). That will be 8 matches per round per mat.

Should be done wrestling within 2 1/2 hours or so.

Charge 10 bucks to wrestle, sell some corn and soda, and charge a small gate fee. Your club can pocket $1,000 to $2,000 on a week night.

 

If we can get one or two clubs to do this in each section during freestyle season, I think that kids would learn to love freestyle. Scale it down and make it convenient for more people.  

 

Thoughts???

[Y2CJ41]

We had a live night a couple years ago and it was a lot of fun. The kids really liked it and they all got a few live reffed matches in during a weeknight.

 

What Warren did was basically a friendship meet with running clocks, organized chaos, and everyone comes out a winner. 

 

If we are going to have qualifiers there needs to be stipulations. When you divide a mat up you lose a very big part of freestyle and greco...the step out point. These also need to be REAL matches with clock stoppages and such. 

 

If the ISWA continues to allow these you will see them replace weekend meets almost immediately. Why worry about weight classes, age groups, pairers, etc when you can do it on the fly with this. The thing is we don't know what the ISWA will do next as it is sure to change and not always for the better.

[warsawwrestling]

Thanks for your ideas.  I'm not an ISWA board member anymore, but I was on the board for 12 years.  A lot of these have been considered and discussed.  I'm not trying to simply dismiss your ideas, but just want to point out some challenges with some of them...

 

1 - I like and support this idea.  Schoolboys already have a state tournament at middle school state (with some Novice and Cadets mixed in).  Cadets and Juniors have high school state, though ISWA Folkstyle State is a great opportunity for the better JV kids if it is moved up to the week after high school state.

 

2 - I have no problem with keeping the qualifying rule for the little ones and not for the bigger kids.  However, your pricing model, while great in theory, would be an absolute nightmare to implement at state.  That's a different price for each individual wrestler.  The only possible way to even try it would be to require every qualifying tournament to use track wrestling and get track wrestling to create a pricing formula specific to each age division.  I just don't think it is possible.

 

Waivers for ISWA national team members during freestyle season and documented medical/injuries could be managed and help the wrestlers in tough situations.

 

Discounts for accomplishments like placing at state starts to get into IHSAA violations as monetary awards.  This was explored for national team pricing once and was dismissed when it was learned that it could impact eligibility.

 

The ISWA already meets every month - some driving from as far as Jeffersonville and South Bend.  For a couple of years, meetings were sometimes held up north or down south, but very few clubs/reps came to these meetings, so they stopped.  The Section Directors are available to contact with any issues to take to the board - That's one of their main responsibilities.

 

ISWA volunteers have helped new clubs set up and run tournaments their first year.  The development is there if it's requested.

 

I'm not sure what "clear team indiana criteria" you're talking about.  Juniors are experimenting with a team selection procedure that is similar to some of the top states in the country.  Everyone else has very standard criteria for earning a spot on Team Indiana.

In place of folkstyle state (schoolboy and up) for ISWA they could replace it with a JV state. You could have 4 tournaments around the state  (participants could be everyone that didn't make it out of sectionals and JV kids, maybe even include 8th graders that place in the top 4). Take your top 4 from each of these tournaments for the JV state.  I think this would be a big event, possibly bigger than ISWA folkstyle state.  Plus you get a few more weeks out of 50-60% of kids that stop when high school is done.

 

It's true a pricing scale would probably be hard to workout. Maybe there can be a competition certificate they can pick up at the event or print off of Track. Maybe something along the lines of the kid bringing proof he went to X amount of tournaments and set up a reward exchange. Like t-shirts, hats, key chains you get the point.  Something, at least for a few years to encourage participation. I'm sure something could be figured out.

 

Good point about monetary rewards. 

 

I was aware they meet once a month, but thought that it maybe worth exploring.  Sounds like it was and didn't work out.  So, maybe something like surveys, questioners or other ideas brought up during meetings, be posted on ISWA.com so people can give their input (kind of a mini form) or hell I'm sure Joe would tab an ISWA section for an advertising fee (or if you just agree with him about class wrestling).  Unlike Coach Hull I don't believe people have to earn a vote (over time) by being in a club or current member to bring up ideas.  I believe that to be closed minded.  I have earned my voice for wrestling through many years coaching and wrestling in each age group of this great sport, along with many other individuals. 

 

I'm glad to know that ISWA does assist, but I was referring more of a running the pairings part of the event.  This to me is the most difficult and can slow a tournament down faster than anything else.  That would be a great fundraiser/profit maker for a wrestling club. For example: Host team provides and sets up mats, scoreboards, computers if running track, officials and another club comes in and runs all the pairings and brings all the stuff to do them.  Just a thought.  I know it was the biggest problem when we were looking to host a tournament, and why we ended up not doing it.

 

Clear Team Indiana Criteria basically to me would straighten itself out if there were only Middle School State, ISHAA State, Freestyle and Greco. Start from the top and work yourself down.  Only allow Team Indiana individuals to participate at the national events, unless there was a granted exception from ISWA.

 

I guess my biggest issue is when I think of ISWA I think of mucky dirty water.  I don't know what is under the surface, good or bad.  Even though it has been stated ISWA is transparent, I feel it is far from being so.  There is little public knowledge and understanding of things ISWA does, unless you go to all the meetings and are in the dealings of it all the time.  So, when there is a site like this that captures probably the biggest group of Indiana Wrestling in one place it is probably a great place to start to rebuild those bridges instead of burning new ones.  For example very few knew about the 2 qualifying rule until it was posted on here a little over a year ago.  But once it was, than a lot of people learned about it really quick. 

[warsawwrestling]

 

I think all but #4 is already being done to some extent?

 

Minutes are sent to clubs I believe, it would be time consuming at first, but certainly possible to expand that to members.

 

The annual meeting is always in September, I do like the idea of sending out possible rule changes etc in advance. 

 

Let's hold an ISWA state convention, make it 2-3 days in the fall, have everyting under one roof, elections, socials, rule interpretaion meetings, socials tournament bids, socials, etc. socials. 

It would not be really that time consuming.  When we go online to purchase a card we put in information about the wrestler, payment and standard info.  There can be a spot made for contact email.  You consolidate these emails, which a computer person can usually write a code to do this in 10 minutes if it's not already done that way and you have your email list. Each year or even monthly you update the list of current members.

Edited April 27, 2016 by warsawwrestling

[warsawwrestling]

I think that it should be counted. Furthermore, I think that these weeknight tournaments may be just the thing to save Freestyle wresting in Indiana. After a long club season, it is very hard for me to sell people on sitting in a gym every weekend for two more months (when it starts to get warm again). If we could get a couple of freestyle practices and a mini tournament in during the week, it would help me to keep kids going. It will also help our studs to get more actual freestyle matches in during their national schedules.

 

Here is what I picture:

Four mats- Divide them into half mats (8 surfaces total).

Cap the tournament at around 128 kids.

Put the kids in groups of four (closest to weight).

Put four groups of four on each surface.

Each group wrestles round robin for 3 rounds (each group will have 2 matches per group per round). That will be 8 matches per round per mat.

Should be done wrestling within 2 1/2 hours or so.

Charge 10 bucks to wrestle, sell some corn and soda, and charge a small gate fee. Your club can pocket $1,000 to $2,000 on a week night.

 

If we can get one or two clubs to do this in each section during freestyle season, I think that kids would learn to love freestyle. Scale it down and make it convenient for more people.  

 

Thoughts???

I also have no problem about it. I really like the idea mainly because 5 or so of our kids go to RTC's or practice rooms during the week that are a 2 hour round trip.  So to have that as an option would be great and encourage them to go to freestyle state because they were already qualified. 

 

The problem I had with this is it seems shady and done on the down low, similar to the waver situation.  Than to make things worse the rationale for no wavers this year is because of all the complaining last year.  That is silly.  Put it to ink and paper as to what is and what isn't approved and adjust as need when people find ways around the basic idea of the waver. 

[InTheCircle]

 

 

It would not be really that time consuming. When we go online to purchase a card we put in information about the wrestler, payment and standard info. There can be a spot made for contact email. You consolidate these emails, which a computer person can usually write a code to do this in 10 minutes if it's not already done that way and you have your email list. Each year or even monthly you update the list of current members.

A great suggestion. An it would take all of 10 seconds for iswa. Been saying this for years as have others.

[InTheCircle]

I think that it should be counted. Furthermore, I think that these weeknight tournaments may be just the thing to save Freestyle wresting in Indiana. After a long club season, it is very hard for me to sell people on sitting in a gym every weekend for two more months (when it starts to get warm again). If we could get a couple of freestyle practices and a mini tournament in during the week, it would help me to keep kids going. It will also help our studs to get more actual freestyle matches in during their national schedules.

 

Here is what I picture:

Four mats- Divide them into half mats (8 surfaces total).

Cap the tournament at around 128 kids.

Put the kids in groups of four (closest to weight).

Put four groups of four on each surface.

Each group wrestles round robin for 3 rounds (each group will have 2 matches per group per round). That will be 8 matches per round per mat.

Should be done wrestling within 2 1/2 hours or so.

Charge 10 bucks to wrestle, sell some corn and soda, and charge a small gate fee. Your club can pocket $1,000 to $2,000 on a week night.

 

If we can get one or two clubs to do this in each section during freestyle season, I think that kids would learn to love freestyle. Scale it down and make it convenient for more people.

 

Thoughts???

Good idea. The Saturday marathons won't last forever. Go to a MYWAY tourney and u get 5 matches in 2 hours and are back home to let the cows out. This is a good idea and will work. Don't know why we are so opposed to doing it in Indiana when other states like Illinois and Michigan have been for years. Reminds me of the j@ckasses who refuse to modernize folkstyle rules not cause they can be better but cause they'd be to close freestyle.

[Clan Campbell]

mattyb,

Agreed, weekday pseudo tournaments might just be a way to spark more life into IN freestyle, and I like the approach to having each section sanction several of these a year within their section.  But I think its wrong to legitimize them as a qualifier at this late juncture, I think you made a similar comment earlier in this thread.  Personally my stance is that all the best should be at the state tournament, heck my own son was knocked out of schoolboy duals last year by a "waiver" kid, but it was the right thing to have that kid at the tournament.  How the ISWA went about getting him and all the other best back into the tournament certainly compromised their image, but those wrestlers belonged on that stage; as they do this year as well.

 

Now we have a couple clubs claiming altruistic motives, yet placing the ISWA in yet another difficult predicament that compromises their image.  Should those with the facilities and strategic connections be given the special benefit to secretly qualify their kids on a weekday and compete elsewhere on the weekend, isn't that kinda what this is implying?  Perhaps we lose our vision and are spoiled when we have facilities and resources like Avon&Brownsburg, but I grew up in a farm community in basketball country and try to keep things like this in perspective.  The appearance of contrived tournaments, exclusivity, and collusion isn't a good approach to improving and strengthening the situation when trying to hold all to a set standard.  Seems they, ISWA, would be better served just to lift the two tournament rule than this stuff.

 

I'm sure you'll be weighing my boys in for the Franklin tournament over at Avon's satellite weigh-ins in a couple days, would welcome a face to face talk on this topic further, I'm sure the county can come up with some good creative, fair solutions to pose. 

[JMILL]

I think that it should be counted. Furthermore, I think that these weeknight tournaments may be just the thing to save Freestyle wresting in Indiana. After a long club season, it is very hard for me to sell people on sitting in a gym every weekend for two more months (when it starts to get warm again). If we could get a couple of freestyle practices and a mini tournament in during the week, it would help me to keep kids going. It will also help our studs to get more actual freestyle matches in during their national schedules.

 

Here is what I picture:

Four mats- Divide them into half mats (8 surfaces total).

Cap the tournament at around 128 kids.

Put the kids in groups of four (closest to weight).

Put four groups of four on each surface.

Each group wrestles round robin for 3 rounds (each group will have 2 matches per group per round). That will be 8 matches per round per mat.

Should be done wrestling within 2 1/2 hours or so.

Charge 10 bucks to wrestle, sell some corn and soda, and charge a small gate fee. Your club can pocket $1,000 to $2,000 on a week night.

 

If we can get one or two clubs to do this in each section during freestyle season, I think that kids would learn to love freestyle. Scale it down and make it convenient for more people.  

 

Thoughts???

.

If Avon is popping corn for this event I will 100% be there and I may not even have a kid wrestling..............that Avon concession stand corn is the best in Indiana !!!!......#BlevinsWifeMadeCorn

[Coach Hull]

I'm loving the suggestions, even if some of you disagree with me individually on my stance or that of the ISWA collectively.  We are working on it. All of these ideas have been noted and many have come up before, but the dialogue is what is necessary!  We have to keep this up. Our common ground I believe is we all take pride in Indiana's success, we just differ on the approach to get there. The Olympic styles ARE dying in INDIANA and have been for the past decade or more, and this is no bueno.  Because of the local and national folkstyle tournament schedule it is tough to invest in these style, but we HAVE to.  

 

Things we could do and that I would like to see change personally: most importantly is coaching awareness towards these styles, as the coach is the official liaison between the sport and the athlete.  If they don't buy it then the kid nor family is likely to buy it either.  I'd like to see more beginner freestyle and greco tournaments popping up early and everywhere for our kids, more freestyle and greco tournaments themselves, in a perfect world have the F/G season go from March - July for the state, more freestyle duals (whether, elementary, middle or high school, and I'm even working on having the RTC's dual each other), and just more opportunities in general to train and compete for the state.  The two requirement rule doesnt bother me any because Indiana Pride tries to go to them all, because I know better, and I MAKE our kids train in these styles anyway.  They may be hesitant initially but when they're older they always understand and are thankful.  Starts with the coach first though IMO.

 

Nevertheless, this entire thread was about boycotting freestyle state, for whatever reason, but this doesn't hurt the ISWA even remotely close to as much as it does our current and future Indiana wrestlers  - regardless of the reason.  So, with that said, the real issue becomes informing EVERYONE as to why.  Below I have attached a link that some of us have seen but that we all need see:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G8UHpbEL2E

 

The people who know me know what I have and do bring to Indiana's wrestling table, that I am semi-cool and halfway funny, can be difficult to get a hold of, but I love our kids and that I have a halfway decent idea of what I'm talking about as our results have and will speak for themselves.  Still, others do not, and for whatever reason may hate on a brother.  Either way it doesnt matter.  Don't take it from me, take it from these guys.  Watch the video and think about it.  Here's a summary...

 

"Started wrestling Freestyle and Greco when he was 5 years old, didn't pick up Folkstyle until 8th grade, it's because of Freestyle and Greco (the little things) that made him the successful Folkstyle wrestler."  - Bill Zaddick, World Champ, NCAA Champ

 

"Forced to wrestle Freestyle and Greco, gave him his foundation, teaches positioning, not putting yourself in danger, versatility in wrestling skills, etc.  In order to be the best of the best, you're going to have to wrestle Freestyle, and if you don't have a foundation at a young age, it's going to take a while to bridge that gap when you wrestle the best guys in college."   - Jared Frayer, Olympian, 2x NCAA All-American

 

"Mainly focused on folkstyle and scholastic wrestling, and he did get better everyday, but looking back on it he made his biggest jumps when he started wrestling freestyle and greco.  As soon as he started wrestling those styles in the 5th grade, although he was only focused on having fun, it made him really good.  Did it all the way through high school, took a couple of years off when he got to college, started it up again and as soon as he did he started getting better."   - Kyle Dake, 4x NCAA Champion @ 4 different weight classes

 

"His folkstyle success was directly attributed to freestyle.  The extra training, competition, the technical aspects of freestyle that make you better in folkstyle, you have to be more diligent about execution as folkstyle allows you to have breaks in your execution, but in freestyle your execution has to be perfect.  Freestyle will sharpen all of your offense and all of the assets that you have in Folkstyle."   - Teague Moore, NCAA Champion

 

"It helps you in every aspect, but it's the better competition you get in Freestyle and Greco, look at all the Olympic champs and they did all three styles.  It is extremely important that we never lose site of Freestyle and Greco."   - Kevin Jackson, Olympic Champion, World Champion, 4x NCAA All-American

 

"63% of D1 All-Americans placed at Fargo, over 80% over the last 20 years at least competed at Fargo, 8 NCAA Champions at the time wrestled at Fargo, Freestyle and Greco are hard to discount because the numbers are all there.  Preventing kids from going to Fargo, Junior Duals, etc can be detrimental as the stats validate.  There is a high level of collegiate success even just by going"   - Jason Bryant, Editor @ Amateur Wrestling News

 

"It was his Freestyle and Greco opportunities that allowed him to wrestle all of the college studs while he was in high school, both losing and winning, so when he got to college he knew he could go in and win right away.  He basically started out in college at a higher place than he would have if he had not wrestled Freestyle and Greco." - Logan Stieber, 4x NCAA Champion

 

"It's the change of pace, redundancy hurts.  All of the technical things that Freestyle and Greco bring are a given, but people miss the importance of the mental break, the 6-8 months of folkstyle added to the 3-4 months of freestyle helps break things up and keeps it fresh when folkstyle starts back up."  - Kerry McCoy, Olympian, 2x NCAA Champion

 

"We make and expose them to everything, all three styles, and thats what we look for when recruiting."   - Lou Rosselli, Asst Coach @ Ohio State

 

"Folkstyle wrestlers and Folkstyle coaches share a municipal belief that if their kid has a hard enough time wrestling folkstyle, why would we want to confuse them with the international styles?  Truth is there are a lot of freestyle techniques that are absolutely imperative for even a beginner folkstyle wrestler to understand.  If you want to get to the top you absolutely have to go this path."  - Mike Moyer, Executive Director of NWCA 

 

"Position, counter offense, hand fighting, the ability to finish quick and clean, especially with all of the funk in folkstyle, but our kids have to have a freestyle background."   - Pat Santoro, 2x NCAA Champion, 4X All-American, Head Coach @ Lehigh

 

In conclusion, if you disagree with the ISWA that is fair. Be selfish then. Take care of home and forget the state.  If you want your kid to maximize their potential in the sport of wrestling, training and competing as much as possible in freestyle and greco is the way to go.  I hope this last weekend of tournaments is packed and next week at state we have a good showing.  Even if you didn't qualify this year and aren't going to be able to make it, start next year.  Let's change Indiana's culture together!!

Edited April 28, 2016 by Coach Hull

[Fabio Jr.]

You are 100% correct Nick this dialog is whats great about having such community at your finger tips, ideas and suggestions from all constituents. 

 

 

In conclusion, if you disagree with the ISWA that is fair.  Be selfish.  Take care of home.  Forget the state. 

 

But to say that people are "selfish" because they disagree with the decisions and practices of the ISWA recently is a more negative and almost insulting thing to say to your constituents. What I at least interpret from this statement is if you don't agree then you are not attempting to better our State and community. People are offering suggestions based on their troubles with the system the By-Laws of the ISWA state that you guys will try to do right by them as of Article II Section 1 Points D and E

 

D) To promote and protect the mutual interest of it’s registered members and constituent clubs.

E) To cooperate with other groups and organizations in the promotion of Amateur Wrestling. 

[bigdanteague]

You are 100% correct Nick this dialog is whats great about having such community at your finger tips, ideas and suggestions from all constituents. 

 

 

But to say that people are "selfish" because they disagree with the decisions and practices of the ISWA recently is a more negative and almost insulting thing to say to your constituents. What I at least interpret from this statement is if you don't agree then you are not attempting to better our State and community. People are offering suggestions based on their troubles with the system the By-Laws of the ISWA state that you guys will try to do right by them as of Article II Section 1 Points D and E

 

D) To promote and protect the mutual interest of it’s registered members and constituent clubs.

E) To cooperate with other groups and organizations in the promotion of Amateur Wrestling. 

 

More passive aggressive jibberish that is not almost insulting, it IS insulting.

[Y2CJ41]

The sad thing is people on this topic WANT to have kids wrestle freestyle, but the rules are preventing it. Telling kids and families they need to invest three weekends(two qualifiers and state) doesn't fly. With the number of RTC's out there kids are getting better by being in a room for two hours a couple times a week instead of traveling to some small tournament and shelling out a couple hundred bucks just to get a few matches in.

 

Be proud of spear-heading the demise of freestyle and greco in the state. I'm sure you will try to spin it off as helping the state.

[Coach Hull]

OMG. Thank you Fabio Wiesjahn, for pointing that out and letting me clear that up. Parents, who are focused on providing your own athlete(s) the best opportunities for them to maximize their potential in the sport of wrestling, and aren't necessarily worried about state as a whole, it is suggested by the best coaches and wrestlers in the country and world to train and compete in freestyle and greco during the off-season to accomplish this.  I am very sorry if that comment offended anyone else that may have taken that the wrong way.  Thank you again, Fabio.

 

Y2, unfortunately, as the RTC Director for the state, I can safely say that the RTCs are not enough.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Coach Hull

[Y2CJ41]

My kids did just fine doing RTC's and club practices and not being forced to do any local events.

 

Of course I guess my club isn't anything special is it? Only about 12 AA's over the past 5 years at the collegiate level.... 

[Sig40]

The sad thing is people on this topic WANT to have kids wrestle freestyle, but the rules are preventing it. Telling kids and families they need to invest three weekends(two qualifiers and state) doesn't fly. With the number of RTC's out there kids are getting better by being in a room for two hours a couple times a week instead of traveling to some small tournament and shelling out a couple hundred bucks just to get a few matches in.

 

Be proud of spear-heading the demise of freestyle and greco in the state. I'm sure you will try to spin it off as helping the state.

Exactly. We want to wrestle, but with these rules in place we can't. And practice is so much more beneficial then a local meet. Doesn't ISWA want the best kids represented in a state tournament?

[warsawwrestling]

Exactly. We want to wrestle, but with these rules in place we can't. And practice is so much more beneficial then a local meet. Doesn't ISWA want the best kids represented in a state tournament?

by words yes, but by actions no!  This is ridiculous ISWA and Coach Hull would rather blame and shame people instead of coming to solutions.  As a coach that is looking at getting back into starting a little kids program it leaves lost as to what to do.  I cannot be apart of an organization that works this way.  Luckily for me I do know of a few other ways of how to skin this cat! Sadly it is not through Freestyle, I guess other than Fargo.  Because there is no way in hell the ISWA will ever fill enough spots to keep people out, they could hardly get people to their state tournament before they shot themselves in the foot!

[AJ]

Any reason we are having a big push for only freestyle and not greco?  A lot of the quotes used in earlier in thread state the benefits of both freestyle and greco...  So why has the ISWA picked freestyle to push rather than both of them?  If the argument is to improve our states wrestling, then shouldnt we focus on all 3 styles?

[Coach Hull]

You guys...nothing but love in this post and now I "blame and shame" bc I said the word "selfish" or posted a video about the REAL ISSUE?  

 

My daughter is playing softball now. Her team, bless their hearts, are sub-par but are having fun. My daughter likes the sport although she's average and definitely needs to work on catching the ball, but she has a pretty good stick.  I don't have enough time for her because of wrestling, but I want the best for her.  I know a few ex-softball athletes who played in college and I'm thinking of getting her private lessons.  I hate to outsource it but I just don't have the time.  So I need to be as efficient and effective as possible.  Boom.  I pull the trigger on getting her personal training.  I know several parents with the team, and my cousin is actually the head coach, so this is a personal relationship there.  Still, as much as I care about her team, I only have enough money to get her training by herself.  If I had the time or money, I'd bring in the national championship college team to privately train every player on her team, and the team itself.  But I can't.  

 

All I can focus on is my daughter.  Does that make me selfish? If it does then so be it. No one is paying these bills for me.  My daughter is my responsibility, and I sleep just fine taking care of her alone...selfishly.  No nightmares about not worrying about everyone else's child, even though I do help coach them when I'm around. Does that make me selfish too?  Again, who cares? If someone calls me selfish because I'm worried about my daughter's development above all else, which isn't even a school team, then sure - I'm selfish.  The real selfish choice I must make is, with only X amount of time and money, where do I spend it to maximize her potential?  Although I know a little, I am not a softball wizard but I know some who are: maybe the coaches of the state team? The national team possibly? Maybe even a few softball Olympic and World Champions?  They probably have a good idea.  To each his own, but I'll take their word for it.

 

...and RTC's are not enough. After the BEST COACHES AND ATHLETES IN THE COUNTRY AND WORLD SAY WRESTLE AS MUCH FREESTYLE AND GRECO AS POSSIBLE, we want to wrestle at JUST state now and say that I am single-handily bringing down freestyle and greco in the state....because I want more kids wrestling freestyle and greco, personally and professionally?  Out 52 weeks a year, 3 weekends is waaaaaay too much to dedicate to freestyle and greco?  Because we already touch on it at RTC's? We only want to wrestle in one freestyle tournament, which is state, then go to Fargo now? Then yes, sorry to say, we are not that serious about it getting better compared to the best states in the country. The previous video and info is not to shame, which I don't get anything out of unlike others, but it is to inform from the best-of-the-best, since a select few think I am the bad guy.  I don't lose any sleep from this stuff and I'm sure it goes both ways.  I'lll be the bad guy.  The bad guy says, "wrestle as much freestyle and greco as possible if you truly want to be one of the best in the COUNTRY."  That is all.  Actually, I see Jake Herbert, Mike Krause, and Reece Humphrey are coming in soon.  Wabash has pretty big camp, along with Culver and several others.  Ask those guys what they think about it face-to-face then.  At least we are narrowing this all down. Go, Indiana wrestling!  Love you guys!!  Just so we can bump it again...

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G8UHpbEL2E

@ AJ, good observation.  Freestyle is more popular than Greco.  Greco, as intimidating as is to most kids and parents, I believe is actually the easiest out of all 3 styles.  They're both together though.  Just like I MAKE our IPWA kids wrestle freestyle, I  MAKE them wrestle Greco as well.  Having to type it all out (Freestyle, Greco-Roman, Olympic styles, international styles, F/G, Freco, etc.) gets tiring, but they should be interchangeable.  And the ISWA does push all three styles, which is why they host a Greco state in the first place. Clearly though, although we can require qualifications, we aren't in charge of individual rooms and what coaches focus on.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Coach Hull

[Y2CJ41]

3 weekends out of 52.... it's 2 out of 5 weeks that you have to get these events in so you can wrestle the 3rd weekend.

 

Previous to those five weeks you spend about 9 out of 10 weekends in a gym already.

 

Also in those 6 weeks you have things like

-Prom

-Other national wrestling events

-SAT and ACT tests

-Maybe other life events like church retreats, family reunions, etc

-MAYBE some parents want a few weekends off or can't actually afford it!

 

If there were 52 weeks of freestyle tournaments we wouldn't be having this discussion, instead there are 5.

[warsawwrestling]

Once again you argue to here yourself. Most of these complaints are based because the season is, wait for it.....SHORT! With national tournament it makes it hard to make the 2 qualifiers. I am also being selfish because I think it's beneficial for my son to go to these! There has been many great suggestions all to be blown off with excuses and blaming those of us that are concerned about getting our kids freestyle matches. 1, 2, 3 weekends any of which are better than none! Which are what this is encouraging. Unlike you I won't sleep well not because of your comments but because of how you are choking out Freestyle and Greco.