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What if Chad Red lived in Illinois


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ah hahaha... yeah I guess if ya gotta lock the other thread for whatever reason, cause ya might hurt someone's feelings I guess... LOL! continue here... if you want to wrestle ya don't miss weight. do

The guy posting his logic against Indiana wrestlers has a login name of Infinate Wisdom.  Nuff said.

i dont understand why people knock on red so much, his freshman year almost everybody cheered for him then by his senior year it was a lot against him. why can't people just be more positive forward a

I saw this topic while looking for info on the Indiana vs Illinois All-Star dual.

 

http://illinoismatmen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59705

 

These guys are pretty dilusional.  Not sure what else Chad Red needs to do to get the respect he deserves.  The kid is #1 in the Nation for a reason.   

I think the point made regarding his not being undefeated due to a significantly more difficult schedule is valid and doesn't in any way take away from his accomplishments.  It's just a sound arguement about wrestling much tougher and nationally ranked competition.

 

There is one jerk who seems to think that there is no way Red could beat Yanni Diakomihalis and questions how he handles himself but all in all I don't think anyone other than that guy is saying he has something left to prove.

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In all honesty, it's ignorant talk. Time and time again he has proved himself. He won Who's number 1 with pure skill. Yianni simply couldn't beat Pletcher. No excuses. When will they realize Indiana actually isn't a joke and our wrestlers are studs

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In all honesty, it's ignorant talk. Time and time again he has proved himself. He won Who's number 1 with pure skill. Yianni simply couldn't beat Pletcher. No excuses. When will they realize Indiana actually isn't a joke and our wrestlers are studs

 

I suspect if Indiana ever consistently beats them in the Indiana/Illinois invite then respect will be earned.

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If he would have gone to events like the Ironman his chances of taking a loss would increase dramatically. Guys like Nathan Tomasello and Logan Steiber both had at least one loss at the Ironman.


I suspect if Indiana ever consistently beats them in the Indiana/Illinois invite then respect will be earned.

We need a lot more than that, there are years where Indiana doesn't take the event seriously and years Illinois doesn't. The dual is an exhibition that many kids go into it with very little mat time since state.

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Piss on em!!!  I did my part back in the day and beat their "small" school State champ at the duels, without hitting a single practice between State and the dual besides the one the day before. Chad Red has proved everything he needs to prove as a High School phenom. 

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You guys might have misunderstood me. I never said "when will they be scared or fearful of us?" I just meant, when will they see that our top guys would still dominate in Illinois? Such as B. Lee, Nick and Joe Lee, Chad, Streck? Maybe more. If it wasn't senior only vs senior, we would beat them no doubt with this years state lineup. Just my opinion, insight?

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You guys might have misunderstood me. I never said "when will they be scared or fearful of us?" I just meant, when will they see that our top guys would still dominate in Illinois? Such as B. Lee, Nick and Joe Lee, Chad, Streck? Maybe more. If it wasn't senior only vs senior, we would beat them no doubt with this years state lineup. Just my opinion, insight?

 

They will never admit that someone that is not from IL would be able to waltz in and dominate. Indiana will never get respect from a great wrestling state like Illinois until we prove to them that we are good enough. If you read those posts they tried to call out everything they could to disprove Red as the top guy: weak Schedule, not wrestling Cadet world champ Yanni D ( Who I think Red beats), ect. Respect from them would need to come from a total victory over their studs i.e. Junior/Cadet duals or Fargo. 

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 not wrestling Cadet world champ Yanni D ( Who I think Red beats)

 

I found this hilarious...they actually took credit away from Red for making it to the finals and beating the guy who beat Yanni....  

 

Yes, Red may have taken a loss during his career if he was allowed to wrestle in all the top tournaments in the country during high school season...but fact remains that he won Fargo and won Pound for Pound and is the current #1 ranked wrestler...  

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Indiana is 1-6 vs. IL in the last 7 scholastic duals. The lone victory was in 2011 when they won the whole thing. This could also go towards the other thread where some people believe the class of 2012 was the best. Chad also beat Gabe Townsell and Jake Silzer at scholastic duals as well as Mitchell McKee. It really depends on what school he would have attended. At his dad's alma mater he certainly could have gone undefeated. At a Chicago area powerhouse, because of their schedules probably not.  

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Josh Alber went 4 yrs undefeated in Ill recently. At this point, he's a decent D1 wrestler early in his collegiate career ..but he's not half the wrestler Red is, and only one of those provincial, biased matmen posters would ever say differently. You have to take everything Illinois posters say with a grain of salt. They have some fairly big blind spots.

 

I bet Kentucky wrestling fans feel similarly about us, to be honest

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It was requested of me to copy/paste this to your forum:

 

From: PapaBearSlim

 

Mr. Tucker feel free post this over there.
Who knows if he would have gone undefeated if say he attended a IL 3A school with a national schedule. There are so many land mines along the way over a 4 year stretch and so many highly regarded studs that were unable to accomplish this feat in IL that it's easy to see why IL folks would be quick to say it wouldn't happen. That's not a knock on Indiana, Red or minimizing his accomplishment. You could be the best in the country and still lose on any given day (bad call, sick, not 100%, got game planned perfectly, made a mistake, just wasn't your day...) and that likelyhood increases when you wrestle the top 5% of the country week in and week out as opposed to 2 or 3 matches a year.

Things to consider:
You have to be careful not to project senior Chad Red on to freshman/sophomore Chad Red as I'm sure he's a lot better now than he was then.
What weights did he wrestle the last 4 years?
What wrestlers were at those weights in IL, at the Dvorak, at the Clash, at the Cheesehead, at the Ironman, etc?

If you take all those thing into consideration and still think he's undefeated that's ok but don't take offense if others don't agree.

Having had numerous chances to watch him 1st hand I'm an unbiased believer in his skill.
 
Edited by lpd096
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They tried to counter my argument by saying I'm a dumb*** and that Indiana has no depth. They don't realize we also have people that place high at Fargo and national tournaments yet don't place at our state? Such as Andrew Davison, Jacob Gray, Ect

Edited by DelCo
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Non senior state champions vs their state champions. This year, I think that we would win 7 weight classes. Hudkins, Red, J. Lee, Hughes, Rypel, Parris, Streck. Most by bonus points. Some of our lineup not being seniors just speaks at our good some of these kids are. 

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From "Infinate Wisdom"

 

 

To respond to aoberlin who posted
"Piss on em!!!"

That's exactly what we do, to the great state of Indiana, every year, at every level, of every competitive national wrestling tournament. Almost all of your reasoning in that thread is highly flawed. No doubt that Indiana has at most a few studs, who would be successful in any state, but what makes Illinois very different is the depth. Almost all Illinois wrestlers will come across at least 10 very skilled opponents throughout the year, and some teams that wrestle national schedules, or even the Catholic league schedule, possibly could see more. I do not believe Red would be a 4xer in Illinois, and I certainly don't think he would've been undefeated. Not taking anything away from the kid, and nothing personal, he did his job and beat whoever they put in front of him(so what if he didn't wrestle Yianni, he can't control that Yianni lost, he beat the kid who beat him!). 

To respond to DelCo who posted
"If it wasn't senior only vs senior, we would beat them no doubt with this years state lineup."

In a dual meet format, that was taken very seriously(all wrestlers weighing in at their state weights) sure Indiana would win a few matches(maybe 4-5 tops,... maybe, and that could be generous). It would be like that if the match was all state champs. It would be like that if we only wrestled jr. vs jr., so. vs so., fr. vs fr.. It would be like that if we wrestled only the 2nd place finishers, the 3rd place finishers, all the way down the line, and it would probably get worse as Illinois is way deeper than Indiana. Now the further down the line you go the more flawed the logic. Every year Illinois sends kids who haven't placed at state, to nationals. Some of which come back with All-American status, yet they didn't place at state. Not to mention the number of kids who just placed at Illinois state that come back with All-American status. I really don't know of any other state that has done this in the past 10-15 years with the rate of success Illinois has. Almost every other state sends state champs and runner-ups exclusively, because the other wrestlers who place below them simply don't stand a chance.

Indiana, don't let your mouth write a check you a$$ can't cash. You should know when your out classed. I do respect Indiana and their studs but in no way would the top level Indiana guys beat the top Illinois boys in any kind of serious dual meet. The further down the line we go the worse it gets for Indiana with Illinois depth.

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Josh Alber went 4 yrs undefeated in Ill recently. At this point, he's a decent D1 wrestler early in his collegiate career ..but he's not half the wrestler Red is, and only one of those provincial, biased matmen posters would ever say differently. You have to take everything Illinois posters say with a grain of salt. They have some fairly big blind spots.

 

I bet Kentucky wrestling fans feel similarly about us, to be honest

The guy posting his logic against Indiana wrestlers has a login name of Infinate Wisdom.  Nuff said.

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Eww eww I got a response.  This is fun.  Maybe we should start a yearly thread that we can have both Illinios and Indiana people post on and we can really get the pot stirred up and build some hype behind these duels.  I would love to see it. FYI I also wrestled in college in Illinios for a year.  So I do have respect for them but I stick by my "piss on em" statement. :)

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