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Y2CJ41

Open Letter to the ISWA

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To me, if you want kids to participate you can't have the 2 tournament rule. With so many national tournaments nowadays, the amount of weekends in which these kids are available to compete in freestyle tournaments is minimal. In the same sense however, I really think we need to be pushing freestyle and greco. You can look at the statistics, over 85% of NCAA Division One All-Americans competed in Fargo. Freestyle and greco are going to help our state in the future. The real issue here is, how do we get our state to balance these big national folkstyle events in the spring and freestyle/greco? I don't think blasting kids on this forum because they were hurt and got a waiver. It sounds to me that a lot of people are upset because their kids are not wrestling due to the lack of tournaments in their area. The solution: host a tournament! I can think of one really big preseason tournament over in Northeast Indiana, so hosting a saturday freestyle open should not be out of line. Instead of blaming the ISWA, i think we should take it upon ourselves to host freestyle tournaments and promote it more. Quit pointing the finger and take a little bit of responsibility

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To me, if you want kids to participate you can't have the 2 tournament rule. With so many national tournaments nowadays, the amount of weekends in which these kids are available to compete in freestyle tournaments is minimal. In the same sense however, I really think we need to be pushing freestyle and greco. You can look at the statistics, over 85% of NCAA Division One All-Americans competed in Fargo. Freestyle and greco are going to help our state in the future. The real issue here is, how do we get our state to balance these big national folkstyle events in the spring and freestyle/greco? I don't think blasting kids on this forum because they were hurt and got a waiver. It sounds to me that a lot of people are upset because their kids are not wrestling due to the lack of tournaments in their area. The solution: host a tournament! I can think of one really big preseason tournament over in Northeast Indiana, so hosting a saturday freestyle open should not be out of line. Instead of blaming the ISWA, i think we should take it upon ourselves to host freestyle tournaments and promote it more. Quit pointing the finger and take a little bit of responsibility

Since you decided to all but call me out......

We have not called out any individual kids, this is about a rule the ISWA made and MANY people made it to two events in only five weeks...but now they go back on their mandate and say that you can get a waiver.

 

There are kids on there that were not injured and went to national events instead of a local freestyle event.

 

Lastly, I am not complaining about a lack of events. The kids that I coach that WANTED to go to freestyle state did the right thing and found two events. The ones that looked at the calendar and couldn't make two events...trained very little if any freestyle. 

 

Do you make rules for your team or family, then after half of them fulfill the requirements say..."awe you didn't have to do that, I really wasn't going to enforce that rule anyway."

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Everyone can protest and hang out with me and TripleB and buy us drinks.  Mrs Tskin will be there also.  I hear there is nothing the ISWA hates more than me and TripleB getting free drinks.

 

Seriously though if you are upset with the system then voicing your opinions to the people in charge would be a good step.  Now does that mean be hateful, no but let them know how you feel and try to come to a working solution for the years to come.

I'm in on the free drinks! I for one believe in being part of the solution rather than part of the problem. I'm a regular team player!

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Do you make rules for your team or family, then after half of them fulfill the requirements say..."awe you didn't have to do that, I really wasn't going to enforce that rule anyway."

 

Do you know for a fact they intended to backtrack the entire time?  I think it's fair to question their judgment about changing the rule, but your quote above is essentially saying the ISWA intentionally conspired to change the rule the whole time. Questioning their integrity and their decision making are two different things, in my opinion.

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Since you decided to all but call me out......

We have not called out any individual kids, this is about a rule the ISWA made and MANY people made it to two events in only five weeks...but now they go back on their mandate and say that you can get a waiver.

 

There are kids on there that were not injured and went to national events instead of a local freestyle event.

 

Lastly, I am not complaining about a lack of events. The kids that I coach that WANTED to go to freestyle state did the right thing and found two events. The ones that looked at the calendar and couldn't make two events...trained very little if any freestyle. 

 

Do you make rules for your team or family, then after half of them fulfill the requirements say..."awe you didn't have to do that, I really wasn't going to enforce that rule anyway."

i don't know enough of what happened with the individual that got a waiver to have an opinion, but if the kid was actually injured and got a waiver, I honestly don't know what the issue is. If a kid went out and got two tournaments in, why don't we look at that in a different manner. That kid went out and competed! What's the point in wrestling freestyle, if you just hide in your high school or club room for two months and train freestyle, then pull out the singlet come that first week in May?? 

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Do you know for a fact they intended to backtrack the entire time?  I think it's fair to question their judgment about changing the rule, but your quote above is essentially saying the ISWA intentionally conspired to change the rule the whole time. Questioning their integrity and their decision making are two different things, in my opinion.

Yes I do

 

i don't know enough of what happened with the individual that got a waiver to have an opinion, but if the kid was actually injured and got a waiver, I honestly don't know what the issue is. If a kid went out and got two tournaments in, why don't we look at that in a different manner. That kid went out and competed! What's the point in wrestling freestyle, if you just hide in your high school or club room for two months and train freestyle, then pull out the singlet come that first week in May?? 

If an individual was injured I have no problem with a waiver, what-so-ever. However, this should have been communicated a long time ago. I know of a kid who ENTERED an event, meaning he weighed in and PAID, only to default out because he wasn't medically cleared. He only did this to get his "name on the brackets" to get a tournament in. Just now this family is learning that they didn't have to do that. There are others that wrestled banged up that would have LOVED to have a week off to heal up...but didn't in order to get their tournaments in.

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Yes I do

 

 

 

Devils advocate: if you knew the two tourney rule was not going to be enforced why didn't you tell the kids in your program who quit training?

 

This whole issue is a debacle from beginning to end, and as usual the kids are the ones who suffer.  Common sense isn't that common apparently.

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Devils advocate: if you knew the two tourney rule was not going to be enforced why didn't you tell the kids in your program who quit training?

 

This whole issue is a debacle from beginning to end, and as usual the kids are the ones who suffer.  Common sense isn't that common apparently.

Because I want my kids to follow the rules. I know it is something crazy in this day in age, but I prefer to not have to skirt the rules.

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A local coach who has coached many Team Indiana trips was talking about the possibility of a waiver from the ISWA based upon his conversation with them back in March.  He was always cautious to say its just been talked about, but never confirmed.  So at least since March, the discussion of a waiver was under consideration most likely.  So it would seem many folk's beliefs that a waiver was in the works for a long period does have a basis.  

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If people knew from the beginning that this rule was a farce, then how can I or anyone in the wrestling community continue to trust the ISWA?

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A local coach who has coached many Team Indiana trips was talking about the possibility of a waiver from the ISWA based upon his conversation with them back in March.  He was always cautious to say its just been talked about, but never confirmed.  So at least since March, the discussion of a waiver was under consideration most likely.  So it would seem many folk's beliefs that a waiver was in the works for a long period does have a basis.  

 

I don't believe many thought a waiver was in the works.  Tell that to Mr Mills who stated in an earlier post that he sent an email to the ISWA on March 8th about a waiver and never got a reply.  Regardless if it was in the works or not, you don't communicate it out on April 29th.  If this had gone out in early March this thread doesn't exist.

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I don't believe many thought a waiver was in the works. Tell that to Mr Mills who stated in an earlier post that he sent an email to the ISWA on March 8th about a waiver and never got a reply. Regardless if it was in the works or not, you don't communicate it out on April 29th. If this had gone out in early March this thread doesn't exist.

I think he's on the same side of this as u. He's just saying it was talked about privately among iswa people and that ain't fair. That makes it even a bigger prob because it was probably planned and that's unfair.

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FYI, I have filed a waiver stating that I will be unable to file the proper waiver in time.  Will my son be able to wrestle in Indiana?

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I don't believe many thought a waiver was in the works.  Tell that to Mr Mills who stated in an earlier post that he sent an email to the ISWA on March 8th about a waiver and never got a reply.  Regardless if it was in the works or not, you don't communicate it out on April 29th.  If this had gone out in early March this thread doesn't exist.

 

I am still assuming based upon the lack of response by the ISWA and since there is NO CHANGE to the State Flyer published on iswa.com, that “All participants must compete in a minimum of 2 Local level Freestyle tournaments in order to compete at the State event.“  At this point, we are still undecided if we will register for State or not, but based upon the number registrations for Central Regionals, we probably have no choice but to attend. 

 

I believe that wrestling these styles makes a more rounded wrestler and exposes flaws in their Folkstyle technique.  I also believe the 2 required qualifications did help boost local attendance this year as the 2 tournaments we attended had some of the best completion we’ve seen over the last several years at these events.  However, I certainly would support a “well-documented and well-communicated” waiver process for those with injuries or those who compete on a National Level. 

 

If there really was change in direction by the ISWA to allow waivers this year, I’m sure it was a decision based upon the number of participants registered and the possibility of losing money on hosting the State event.  If they lose money, then we might not ever have this event in the future.  However, if next year they come out with the same ruling and say “This year we’re serious!”, I’m going to be very skeptical that things won’t cave in with low registration projections.

 

It’s frustrating that I wasn’t replied to when I originally inquired and that no communication has been publicized either on this board (other than Joe's letter), the ISWA website, on Facebook or Twitter.  Regardless of their stance, I think an official statement would help clear the muddy waters.  Who knows how many of these waivers were actually applied for and accepted.

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I wouldn't expect anything from the ISWA. They rarely have people post on here unless it is Nick Hull promoting the Junior Duals Team.

Indiana wrestling community has a place to pass along information and have discussion yet the ISWA chooses not use that outlet?  Seems odd, especially in an instance like this.

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This is a straightforward issue of fairness.  There was a rule.  People (including those like me who disagreed with it) sacrificed and followed the rule.  I am just stunned by the lack of communication from ISWA.

 

If waivers are granted that creates inherent inequity.  And that is not fair.  This is why most governments have laws banning similar practices.  If a bureaucrat gives a special favor like a waiver to a close friend or business customer who spends money with him, that is not fair to the rest of the community.  

 

The only fair thing is to maintain the rule.  Have two events, your in.  Have less than two events, your out.

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This is a straightforward issue of fairness.  There was a rule.  People (including those like me who disagreed with it) sacrificed and followed the rule.  I am just stunned by the lack of communication from ISWA.

 

If waivers are granted that creates inherent inequity.  And that is not fair.  This is why most governments have laws banning similar practices.  If a bureaucrat gives a special favor like a waiver to a close friend or business customer who spends money with him, that is not fair to the rest of the community.  

 

The only fair thing is to maintain the rule.  Have two events, your in.  Have less than two events, your out.

Agree

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Registration is at 299 with 7 hours to register. I know there is a rush at the end, and many hammers appear to be absent, but I sure hope all those wrestling newbies the ISWA hoped to be drawing into these fringe styles by mandating local level competition start signing up! Otherwise we're not going to grow the styles by attracting novice type wrestlers, or become better as a state because a lot of the hammers couldn't/wouldn't attend the mandated two events (unless you're a JR hammer) and thus won't qualify for the Natl teams.

 

At least some local level clubs got some Spring revenue. I guess 1 out of 3 of the goals might have been attained. Hopefully registration starts picking up once people get the msg (somehow) from ISWA that waivers are allowed.

Edited by UncleJimmy

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This is a straightforward issue of fairness.  There was a rule.  People (including those like me who disagreed with it) sacrificed and followed the rule.  I am just stunned by the lack of communication from ISWA.

 

If waivers are granted that creates inherent inequity.  And that is not fair.  This is why most governments have laws banning similar practices.  If a bureaucrat gives a special favor like a waiver to a close friend or business customer who spends money with him, that is not fair to the rest of the community.  

 

The only fair thing is to maintain the rule.  Have two events, your in.  Have less than two events, your out.

And breaks their by-laws.

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I don't agree that they are allowing waivers, but I do agree w/ the process of growing at the grassroots level. They should have stuck to their guns, it would have dipped this year, more tourneys would have popped up next year, and growth would have been seen in 3-5 years. By allowing the waivers this process will be delayed by a year now. 

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I don't agree that they are allowing waivers, but I do agree w/ the process of growing at the grassroots level. They should have stuck to their guns, it would have dipped this year, more tourneys would have popped up next year, and growth would have been seen in 3-5 years. By allowing the waivers this process will be delayed by a year now. 

By allowing waivers no one will take the threats of going to a local tournament next year seriously. 

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I don't agree that they are allowing waivers, but I do agree w/ the process of growing at the grassroots level. They should have stuck to their guns, it would have dipped this year, more tourneys would have popped up next year, and growth would have been seen in 3-5 years. By allowing the waivers this process will be delayed by a year now. 

By allowing waivers i think they are throwing up the white flag. Admitting the "RULE" was a mistake in the first place...

 

They need to make it inclusive not exclusive...

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