ENoblewrestling Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 This should get some good debate going. 1. EVMD 2. Bloomington (South) 3. Perry Meridian 4. Bellmont 5. Lawrence North Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Although Cathedral has 0 state titles, they are good year in and year out. Always crank out some good wrestlers. Probably wouldn't put them in the top 5 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenHeavyHandz Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 This should get some good debate going. 1. Bloomington (South) 2.Southport 3.Ft.Wayne Wayne ;D 4.Delta/Avon 5.EvMD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 This should get some good debate going. 1. Bloomington (South) 2.Southport 3.Ft.Wayne Wayne ;D 4.Delta/Avon 5.EvMD I am surprised you didn't try and convince them to add Ft Wayne Wayne to the list! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Rome wasnt built in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Top 5 in my opinion: 1. Mater Dei (one of only two true wrestling communities, where wrestling is just as or more important than all other sports...plus the dozens of individual champs and many state championships) 2. Bellmont (the other true wrestling community...listen on the radio or go to a packed gym for any dual or important tournament...plus many individuals and teams of historical note) 3. Bloomington (South) (the immense history of Bloomington High School, plus the recent statewide relevance pushes them slightly ahead of #4) 4. Mishawaka (the third most powerful wrestling community, though not quite to the extent of #'s 1 and 2, with plenty of championships over many years at the individual and team level) 5. Delta (the top 4 were clear for me, but this is where it gets sketchy in my opinion. I'll give the nod to Delta because they had a true era of power that only EMD and Bloomington can match. Their recent story has been mediocre enough that it's hard to include them, but it's impossible to overstate how iconic Delta wrestling was for a long period.) Others: Lawrence North, Cathedral, Perry Meridian, Franklin, Portage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Being a strong wrestling community is nice but I think you may be giving that factor a bit too much weight when I look at one of your top two teams. You got one of the top two right but the other, I would argue, might not even be in the top 5 but for that (IMO) overrated fabled past. I would be more inclined to put PM into your Top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Being a strong wrestling community is nice but I think you may be giving that factor a bit too much weight when I look at one of your top two teams. You got one of the top two right but the other, I would argue, might not even be in the top 5 but for that (IMO) overrated fabled past. I would be more inclined to put PM into your Top 5. PM has been good for 15 years and great for the last several. Before that, it's history is not nearly as solid. Bellmont has been top 20 for 95% of the time and top 10 most years for many, many seasons. Even in the last 15 years, if you want to look back through and compare who would have won duals each year, I would wager they would have nearly split. The last 2 years have made us forget how Bellmont has been right at the top year in and year out. At this link (http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,7886.0.html), I laid out the top 12 programs of 2000-09, using great detail for analyzing team and individual success. Bellmont was 4th and Perry Meridian 5th. They're very even if you look at their profiles for that period. So then the question becomes, does what Perry has done in the last 4 seasons compared to Bellmont outweigh what Bellmont did for the 30 years compared to PM before 2000? In my eyes, it doesn't, because of how many top teams Bellmont had year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 how about the hobart teams of the late 70's.......my room mates in college both wrestled at hobart and they would fill their gym at home meets like it was a friday night football game (and they were football crazy there too - i remember many penn-hobart match ups).......and really about as many fans went to every away meet......those people were nuts about wrestling.....not sure how was after that or now but we still seem to hear about hobart kids often...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerHornet Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 This is a fun post: This is not developed solely based on state titles but overall reputation in the wresting community and programs that continue to perform at an extremely high level. 1) EMD for obvious reasons. 2) Lawrence North 3) Bellmont 4) Mishawaka 5) Perry Meridian HM: Cathedral, Franklin, and Bloomington South. Schools like Southport (of old) and Delta could also make the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Being a strong wrestling community is nice but I think you may be giving that factor a bit too much weight when I look at one of your top two teams. You got one of the top two right but the other, I would argue, might not even be in the top 5 but for that (IMO) overrated fabled past. I would be more inclined to put PM into your Top 5. Though there is always some subjectivity with the order to put the teams in, their is little doubt that Bellmont should be considered among the best all time programs if we are looking at their list of accomplishments. 3 team state titles is 7th all-time and 4 runner-ups is 3rd all time (combined titles and runner-up awards 4th all-time). 15 Dual Team State Appearances is 1st all time (tied with EMD). 18 semi-state titles is 2nd all time 30 regional title is 2nd all time 38 sectional titles is 3rd all time Though they had a few nice season in the late-1970's their program main achievements came as a result of its teams of the mid-80s through early 2000's. Even if you discount their sectional and regional results due to weaker competition, your still left with one of the top program records at semi-state and state in Indiana history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matts Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If you go all time...... One and two are obviously Bloomington and EMD. I do not think there is much debate there. I would venture the next three are pretty interchangable: Bellmont, LN, and Delta...but maybe not Delta. It has been a long time since they have been in the race. Bloomington (now South) still produces great teams and multiple state champs. So does LN and Bellmont. ...so maybe PM. If Perry Meridian wins this year then they have a HUGE case to join the top five...if they don't already. ...and what about Hammond High School? I think for overall reputation as being one of the ten all-time best programs (excluding the top five) one would look at decades of constantly super-tough teams. Cathedral is absolutely part of that picture even without a state title. So is Warren Central and Mishawaka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Short Jay Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 MattM, I wouldn't say that Bellmont has had "weaker" competition at the sectional or regional level. The AC teams of the 90's were tough and currently solid. Other teams in that sectional had plenty of quality individuals and teams and the teams from Yorktown over the last decade plus have been pretty good. That regional had 4 teams represented at the team state this season and could have had another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 MattM, I wouldn't say that Bellmont has had "weaker" competition at the sectional or regional level. The AC teams of the 90's were tough and currently solid. Other teams in that sectional had plenty of quality individuals and teams and the teams from Yorktown over the last decade plus have been pretty good. That regional had 4 teams represented at the team state this season and could have had another. Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that they had weaker competition. I'm actually not completely aware of how strong those other teams were throughout most of the early years of their sectional and regional runs. It was in reference to oldwrestlers comment of "(IMO) overrated fabled past." If that was in reference to Bellmont stacking up so many lower level tournament titles then you could throw them aside and they still have one of the top overall team results against the highest levels of the state tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdrodd1 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Delta, Muncie Southside, Tech, Mooresville, Bloomington, New Castle, Franklin, Martinsville all had some great traditions along with Perry and EMD. Every school listed so far are all great though. Schools that keep on climbing up are Avon, Danville, Roncalli, Yorktown, Hamilton Southeastern and Castle to think of a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Though there is always some subjectivity with the order to put the teams in, their is little doubt that Bellmont should be considered among the best all time programs if we are looking at their list of accomplishments. 3 team state titles is 7th all-time and 4 runner-ups is 3rd all time (combined titles and runner-up awards 4th all-time). 15 Dual Team State Appearances is 1st all time (tied with EMD). 18 semi-state titles is 2nd all time 30 regional title is 2nd all time 38 sectional titles is 3rd all time Though they had a few nice season in the late-1970's their program main achievements came as a result of its teams of the mid-80s through early 2000's. Even if you discount their sectional and regional results due to weaker competition, your still left with one of the top program records at semi-state and state in Indiana history. Weaker competition?? That Adams Central sectional use to be one of the toughest if not the toughest sectional in the state!! Just between Adams and Wells County alone in the 90s only being able to take the top 2 from sectional. Bellmont, Adams Central, Bluffton, and Norwell all had tough solid teams with some great individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Weaker competition?? That Adams Central sectional use to be one of the toughest if not the toughest sectional in the state!! Just between Adams and Wells County alone in the 90s only being able to take the top 2 from sectional. Bellmont, Adams Central, Bluffton, and Norwell all had tough solid teams with some great individuals. Read my follow up post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachM Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 If u talk all time u have to include teams who aren't near the top now, Bloomingto has to be the best givin their performance decades ago, along with laf. Jeff. Delta and many other schools. We are too caught up in the now so we should be talking about the best in the last ten years. Another factor has to be the free movement of kids from school to school in recent history, we have criticized EMD in the past for recruiting but most of the top teams over the last 10 years regularly have kids transfer in, so this is def a new era in terms of how good teams are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahawkeye Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 If u talk all time u have to include teams who aren't near the top now, Bloomingto has to be the best givin their performance decades ago, along with laf. Jeff. Delta and many other schools. We are too caught up in the now so we should be talking about the best in the last ten years. Another factor has to be the free movement of kids from school to school in recent history, we have criticized EMD in the past for recruiting but most of the top teams over the last 10 years regularly have kids transfer in, so this is def a new era in terms of how good teams are. Oh by here we go................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The term Modern Program would be a more sufficent title...so hard to pick 5 in an order and be honest and fair...but the teams mentioned are all in the top10-15 of all time but the order will be argued about forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Brown Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Delta, Muncie Southside, [glow=red,2,300]Tech[/glow], Mooresville, Bloomington, New Castle, Franklin, Martinsville all had some great traditions along with Perry and EMD. Every school listed so far are all great though. Schools that keep on climbing up are Avon, Danville, Roncalli, Yorktown, Hamilton Southeastern and Castle to think of a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 If u talk all time u have to include teams who aren't near the top now, Bloomingto has to be the best givin their performance decades ago, along with laf. Jeff. Delta and many other schools. We are too caught up in the now so we should be talking about the best in the last ten years. Another factor has to be the free movement of kids from school to school in recent history, we have criticized EMD in the past for recruiting but most of the top teams over the last 10 years regularly have kids transfer in, so this is def a new era in terms of how good teams are. When you say "we" you must be referring to the woefully uninformed... Is there an Indianamat.com topic more tired and incorrect? Here is last year’s line-up: 106, Josh Clem- Josh began wrestling for St. Joe in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. 113, Mitch Lehman- Began wrestling for St. Joe in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. Mitch’s dad, Todd, placed fourth in the state for the Wildcats in 1988. 120, Alex Johnson- Began wrestling for Westside Catholic in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. 126, Blake Jourdan- Began wrestling for Holy Redeemer in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. 132, Josh Pierre- Began wrestling for Westside Catholic in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. Parents are both Mater Dei graduates. 138, Branson Schroeder- Began wrestling for Resurrection in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. His father, John, finished runner-up in 1978. His mother also graduated from Mater Dei. 145, Logan Weinzapfel- Began wrestling for Corpus Christi in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. His dad, Greg, was a State Qualifier in 1985. Logan’s mother also graduated from Mater Dei. 152, Ashton Forzley- Moved to Evansville in the third grade and attended Resurrection. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. His mother is a Mater Dei graduate. 160, Mahlon Parkinson- Began wrestling for St. Philip in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. His dad, Jeff, was a State Qualifier in 1981. His grandpa, Jerry, began coaching at St. Philip in 1969. His mother is a Mater Dei graduate. 170, Alex Schneider- Began wrestling for St. Joe in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. Alex’s mother and father are Mater Dei graduates. 182, Sam Bassemeier- Began wrestling for St. Philip in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. Sam’s dad, Joe, was a State Qualifier in 1981. 195, Austin Fleck- Began wrestling for St. Philip in Kindergarten. Wrestled one year for the Junior Wildcats. 220, Kyle Dennis- Began wrestling for Holy Redeemer in Kindergarten. Wrestled one year for the Junior Wildcats. 275, Nathan Wright- Began wrestling for St. Philip in Kindergarten. Wrestled three years for the Junior Wildcats. His mom’s maiden name was “Boots”. The Boots’ are a Hall of Fame wrestling family. Corpus Christi, Westside Catholic, Resurrection, St. Joe, Holy Redeemer and St. Philip are Mater Dei feeder schools. The seventh school, St. Wendel, is headed by Gabe and Bart Zirkelbach. Gabe was a State Champ and Bart was a Runner-Up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyandky Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The end!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob 77 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Here we go again Coach M opening up that can of worms using that nasty R word (recruiting)! Nobody has been recruiting for some time now, lets face it kids and parents were finding the right program, situation or however you wish to describe it for a long time now. As far as I'm concerned the only people complaining were the programs or people who weren't attractive enough to anyone to draw such consideration and simply chose to cry foul instead of finding a way to step up and compete! Talented kids want to be part of winners, and people that can help them get to where they're aspiring to go. So if you weren't one of those places that's on you and or your program, but don't degrade a program people flock to for whatever reason. Delta, Roncalli, Jimtown, and EMD are a few smaller schools that got it done without the masses living in their backyard. Let that R word go, and those days are long gone, and its much like Costner's movie (Field Of Dreams)" build it and they will come "! JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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