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More impressive freshman campaign, Lee or J. Tsirtsis?

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Lee is the most complete freshman wrestler I have seen in IN with the possible exception being Jason Tsirtsis.

 

Thus far though I would have to say Tsirtsis's freshman year was more impressive.

 

He wrestled one of the toughest schedules I can remember. In addition to a pretty stacked 126 he was also challenged during the season by the top 119ers, beating state champions and multiple state champions (Eppert and I believe Wright).

 

 

Of course Lee is undefeated but has not seen nearly the competition 

 

 

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I think Nick will answer that question for us Saturday afternoon/evening.  If he somehow finds his way at the top of the podium Saturday night it will be very difficult to argue against the fact that he may be the best freshman we have ever witnessed. 

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I am pretty certain Tsirtsis did not wrestle Eppert during his high school career.

 

Tsirtsis beat Wright at the Triacoff. He lost to Quiroga there also. Tsirtsis also had a loss to Anthony Napules during his freshman year.

 

At this stage of the game, before the state finals, I would give the nod to Nick Lee.

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Lee is the most complete freshman wrestler I have seen in IN with the possible exception being Jason Tsirtsis.

 

Thus far though I would have to say Tsirtsis's freshman year was more impressive.

 

He wrestled one of the toughest schedules I can remember. In addition to a pretty stacked 126 he was also challenged during the season by the top 119ers, beating state champions and multiple state champions (Eppert and I believe Wright).

 

 

Of course Lee is undefeated but has not seen nearly the competition

 

 

 

I totally agree with your comment.

 

However, if Lee were to beat Micic and win a state title it definitely may catapult him a little ahead of Tsirtsis at the end of their Freshman years.  Just right now, I will place T-shirts ahead of him.

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Nick Lee right now, we'll see after this weekend.

 

I will say that the crazy amount of pressure being placed upon Nick Lee is insane. Jason didn't have this much hype leading into state b/c of his losses.

 

True but he did have the family name to live up to..

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Nick Lee right now, we'll see after this weekend.

 

I will say that the crazy amount of pressure being placed upon Nick Lee is insane. Jason didn't have this much hype leading into state b/c of his losses.

 

How can you say Lee right now when Tsirtsis won it as a freshman? Lee will have to win it before even getting consideration. A third place finish this year and their is no basis for argument.

 

If another freshman wins a title this year and Lee doesn't can Lee be freshman of the year? I wouldn't think he can.

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How can you say Lee right now when Tsirtsis won it as a freshman? Lee will have to win it before even getting consideration. A third place finish this year and their is no basis for argument.

 

If another freshman wins a title this year and Lee doesn't can Lee be freshman of the year? I wouldn't think he can.

 

He said, "right now".  So from T-shirts first match until after semi state he is comparing that to Lee.  Lee has either pinned or TF everyone but Zach Davis.  To bad we didnt see him bump up to wrestle Trae Blackwell!! 

 

But after watching Lee at Mater Dei Classic and Semi state, I have to go with him....by a hair.  But T-shirt wrestled far better compeition than Lee has up to this point. 

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Cashe was built up more than Micic... All year people talked how Cashe was bumping to wrestle the best and was beating the best.. There was never any real talk of Jason beating Cashe... Micic has been questioned all year and ever since his close match in finals last year ( May seem silly but it is true) ... Lee has had more talk about him knocking off Micic than any freshmen has about beating the defending state champ... 

 

Lee must win Saturday night so this discussion can turn into a debate....

 

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How can you say Lee right now when Tsirtsis won it as a freshman? Lee will have to win it before even getting consideration. A third place finish this year and their is no basis for argument.

 

If another freshman wins a title this year and Lee doesn't can Lee be freshman of the year? I wouldn't think he can.

 

I agree, Lee has to win it first!

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Did that freshman have a #1 nationally ranked kid in his weight?

Why would that matter? You either won it or you didn't. I would think the title is the number 1 criteria.

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Other than Davis, what are Lee's in-season notable victories? The topic is a freshman campaign, not national accolades. Jason beat former state champs.  How does that not trump anything else? IMO, unless you're on top of the podium Saturday night it's a moot point. 

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Other than Davis, what are Lee's in-season notable victories? The topic is a freshman campaign, not national accolades. Jason beat former state champs.  How does that not trump anything else? IMO, unless you're on top of the podium Saturday night it's a moot point.

absolutely

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Why would that matter? You either won it or you didn't. I would think the title is the number 1 criteria.

 

I respectfully disagree. I think even if (and I predict that he will) Lee looses to Micic I still think he is the most impressive Freshman in IN based purely on how he wrestles. Micic is soooo good that a loss to him almost shouldn't count.

 

Now I will back talk because I re-read the thread topic...I respectfully agree, Lee would have win to even be in consideration for best freshman campaign

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Other than Davis, what are Lee's in-season notable victories? The topic is a freshman campaign, not national accolades. Jason beat former state champs.  How does that not trump anything else? IMO, unless you're on top of the podium Saturday night it's a moot point. 

He hasn't had the opportunity to wrestle any state champs.  The returning champ at 120lbs is up at 132, the champ from 126 has graduated.  The returning champion at 132 is at 145. The returning champion at 106 is at 120 and did not bump up to wrestle him in their only potential meeting.

 

At this point in both of their freshman careers Nick Lee has the edge due to having an unblemished record. Even if you cross of the loss to Quiroga you still have the loss to Napules on his record.  Even if Nick Lee loses to Micic he won't have a loss like that on his record this year.

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We may never see a guy like Jason again.....  I hope Lee lives up to all the hype.....weird things happen when your in indy....  if he is at the top of the podium, Saturday night, then he has to be in the same sentence and the guy from crown point.....  fyi...he sure looks good this year at northwestern...haha      this is going to be an amazing state finals this year.......  from beginning to the end....  this is one of the best years EVER!!!!

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I respectfully disagree. I think even if (and I predict that he will) Lee looses to Micic I still think he is the most impressive Freshman in IN based purely on how he wrestles. Micic is soooo good that a loss to him almost shouldn't count.

 

Now I will back talk because I re-read the thread topic...I respectfully agree, Lee would have win to even be in consideration for best freshman campaign

So another freshman could win a title Lee place third and Lee wins freshman of the year base on "how he wrestles"? Would you also then have to consider which freshman is better looking? My point being you are putting subjective opinion before objective fact. JMO

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Other than Davis, what are Lee's in-season notable victories? The topic is a freshman campaign, not national accolades. Jason beat former state champs.  How does that not trump anything else? IMO, unless you're on top of the podium Saturday night it's a moot point.

And if he is, there is no debate or discussion.  Period.

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Cashe was built up more than Micic... All year people talked how Cashe was bumping to wrestle the best and was beating the best.. There was never any real talk of Jason beating Cashe... Micic has been questioned all year and ever since his close match in finals last year ( May seem silly but it is true) ... Lee has had more talk about him knocking off Micic than any freshmen has about beating the defending state champ... 

 

Lee must win Saturday night so this discussion can turn into a debate....

 

Very True. Cashe was having a remarkable season and was the hands down favorite that year - and already had a victory over Tsirtsis.

 

I think both Micic and Lee are "suffering" from Micic's success - 126 is not stacked. I am not implying that the other returning state champs around this weight ducked this weight class but Micic's choice to 126 may have had some influence.

 

Preseason there was talk of Micic, Lee, Red, Wilson and James going 126 - O' what fun that would have been!

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He hasn't had the opportunity to wrestle any state champs.  The returning champ at 120lbs is up at 132, the champ from 126 has graduated.  The returning champion at 132 is at 145. The returning champion at 106 is at 120 and did not bump up to wrestle him in their only potential meeting.

 

At this point in both of their freshman careers Nick Lee has the edge due to having an unblemished record. Even if you cross of the loss to Quiroga you still have the loss to Napules on his record.  Even if Nick Lee loses to Micic he won't have a loss like that on his record this year.

First "opportunity" is irrelevant. Second, you would rate 0 losses on the season over a state title? I would bet all wrestlers would trade several wins for a title. I feel a survey coming on.

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So another freshman could win a title Lee place third and Lee wins freshman of the year base on "how he wrestles"? Would you also then have to consider which freshman is better looking? My point being you are putting subjective opinion before objective fact. JMO

 

There is a good chance that 106 will be won by a freshman but that would be against mostly underclassmen.  Getting beat by a nationally ranked senior is a little different. 

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So another freshman could win a title Lee place third and Lee wins freshman of the year base on "how he wrestles"? Would you also then have to consider which freshman is better looking? My point being you are putting subjective opinion before objective fact. JMO

Winning a weight class with mostly all freshmen vs. finishing 3rd at a weight losing a match to a #1 kid in the nation and 3x champ

 

I'll take a kid that goes after one of the best.

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First "opportunity" is irrelevant. Second, you would rate 0 losses on the season over a state title? I feel a survey coming on.

 

So if for instance Mr. Micic is injured or upset before the semi-finals and Lee wins, you will not say he is as good of a freshman as Jason Tsirtsis was.  Is that correct?

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