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Rookies03

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Everything posted by Rookies03

  1. I don't look at going from 12 to 8 schools as a decrease in the chances of a 1A school going to or winning team state. Yes there are less spots but all schools have the opportunity to compete this year for a spot next year. There should still be motivation at smaller schools to draw athletes and grow the sport. Ultimately Classed Team State alone won't grow a program but it can be a carrot to draw kids in. Still takes a lot of work and dedication from the school, coaches, parents and athletes.
  2. It should be about both (although more the kids than the adults). When talking about class wrestling you have to really consider the average kid vs the elite kid (and their families). If the experience is not enjoyable for the parents of a wrestler then there is less likelihood that the kid will continue to do the necessary things to improve and continue with the sport (notice I said "less likelihood" as there are exceptions to every rule). As for class wrestling as a whole, I think any argument (for or against) needs to have good comparative (and if possible) historical data. Supporters for class wrestling say "it will grow the sport" - has the IHSWCA team duals helped grow 1A and 2A? If so support your claim with real numbers. Supporters for single class wrestling say "it will water down the sport" - what has been the response of other states going from single to class? I am sure at one time all states were single class. Look at the most similar state (at that point in time) to our state (current point in time) and look at the trends. Using singular points of data to prove a point rarely are effective (EMD or Fargo results or David Taylor). These are all outliers and wouldn't show a norm that could be applied to all. Using EMD you are basically says that all 1A schools are the same as EMD. That's just not true. Using National tournaments to suggest class wrestling doesn't prove much because you are talking about the top 1-3% of each state. Too many other factors and class wrestling isn't likely to change those results. BTW... I am for class wrestling as long as we can keep our single class state tournament... is that possible?? Have cake, eat cake.
  3. I completely agree that the weight cutting problem is only solved by coaches, parents and athletes cause there just isnt a good way to legislate it as some will always find "work arounds". I also agree with healthy living is the way to go but understand a kid "cutting" (within reason) down a weight class to make the lineup but not hard 15-30 lb cuts.
  4. Helps prevent kids from cutting a bunch and then replenishing after weigh-ins which is 60-90 mins before wrestling begins. If you have to weigh-in every time you step on the mat then more likely you are at your natural weight and not cutting.
  5. Coaches do have access but every time an alpha weight gets changed an email goes to IHSAA office. If you do it then they IHSAA will know. Not sure why a coach would have the access either. Maybe there could be a legitimate reason a coach would need to edit that weight?!?
  6. Generally I agree with you on the response “well why don’t you just get your license” but getting out on the mat to officiate and seeing how difficult it can be gives you a little more appreciation to the ref.
  7. Let me start by saying, Indiana officials as a whole are much better than many surrounding states. That’s pretty easy to say going to Regional or National tournaments with officials from multiple states. One of the reasons that Indiana is so good is a very real attempt to be consistent throughout the state however there are some nuances in different areas. The region typically is pretty aggressive with stall calls compared to Indy or down south. It probably appears worse to Indy guys because Indy has soooo many officials (some really good and some newbies) making consistency within Indy a little harder and it just seems too aggressive when you see refs from NW Indiana that call stalling without hesitation. Good or bad kids and coaches have to adjust and wrestle through it.
  8. In looking at the results of the CCC, Westfield had 8 wrestlers finish higher in placement to FC 6. One could assume that Westfield would win 8 of the 14 matches in a dual (with bonus points likely deciding the dual). Based off of this it makes sense to rank Westfield higher in dual rankings. Regardless it is great that FC is continuing to build their program.
  9. I believe the rule refers to manufacturers logos. Any other decorations just can’t be offensive. Therefore it is my understanding that a Penn State sticker would be ok.
  10. Think of it this way... suppose there was a proposed rule change to remove 138 and add 95 with the reasoning that we already have 132 and 145 and having a wt class in the middle was too much AND adding 95 would give more opportunities to smaller kids. Would you be for this change? These are all big "What Ifs" so not a lot of reality of them happening but the lowest weight class has evolved from 98 to 103 to 106 because kids are getting bigger not smaller. I think kids cut too much weight (not all but some) and maybe this could help.
  11. So maybe I'm not explaining my view very well. 106 generally has one of the highest forfeit rates. A lot of schools just try to find any kid who weighs less than 106 (usually a freshman who hasn't started growing yet) to get forfeits. If we started at 113 and added a weight in the middle or upper weights now that Varsity spot would be filled by a bigger and in a lot of cases a more "varsity" ready athlete. And to answer your questions... If they’re great, why throw them on jv? Not throwing them on JV. If they are a JV level wrestler then yes they could be great at the JV level (maybe this is a philosophical difference as I don't see greatness measured in Ws and Ls but rather everything else gained from being a wrestler - hard work, dedication, sacrifice, discipline, etc. You can achieve greatness in these areas without being a state placer or champ). Putting a 100 lb kid with no muscle tone on varsity seems more like throwing them on varsity rather than throwing them on JV if they are truly JV caliber. Would you rather have guys like Cernus and Cottey on jv? No. They would most likely be on varsity just at 113. They could cut less weight and I'm pretty sure they would still be great. What I would really rather see is upper classman get more opportunities to be a varsity athlete. 100 lb freshman getting to be a varsity athlete because he is the only one that weighs less than 106 over a junior or senior who is a back up wrestler in the middle or upper weights but is still pretty good.
  12. Can't they contribute and be great at the freshman level or JV level?
  13. 1. Adopt different weight classes for freshman and JV than Varsity and eliminate Varsity 106 to add a larger weight class. Zero seniors qualified for Semi-state at 106 this year. No other sport caters to underclassmen. New weight class could be in the middle or upper weights just get rid of 106. 2. Adopt college stalling rules for the offensive wrestler. Hold on a leg for an audible 5 seconds and get called for stalling. 3. Add Fleeing to the Stalling penalty chart (so first stall/flee is warning but second stall/flee is a point - I think this could make it easier on officials to call - not that I agree with getting a warning for fleeing but if it helps it get called more it would help). 4. 4 pt nearfall. This is awesome at the college level and promotes more activity on the mat. 5. Inbounds - 2 points no matter what. On feet. On mat. In pinning situation. Those 2 points must be on the mat and can be from either wrestler. Knee, foot, toe.... doesn't matter. Any 2 points. Extreme rule (I dont really think this should happen but...) - Make out of bounds its own penalty chart... if official blows the wrestlers out of bounds its a warning to both wrestlers.... 3 warnings and 4th is double disqualification. That might make them wrestling in the middle
  14. When coaches can see how cross training can help their athletes then everyone wins. A week at Disney Duals wont take away from summer football and probably helps make them better football players. All it takes is a little communication and working together for a kids to be successful as a multi-sport athlete. Not gonna say it is easy but coaches working together is a big deal. And Kudos for Coach Snyder and all the other coaches that promote being a multisport athlete!
  15. Absolutely.... Many of the challenges kids have to being great in wrestling happen to coincide with small schools but big schools aren't necessarily immune to challenges. They are just different challenges. Ben Davis, Pike and Fishers (3 of the biggest HS in the State) had 3 SQ combined. Oak Hill, Western, Wawasee, Jimtown all had 3 each. All that being said school size is probably the best way to divide schools into classes. I would just be a bigger supporter of an "all-in" team state tournament series vs changing the individual tournament.
  16. I don't buy into the big schools have this huge advantage over small schools when it comes to individual success. Bigger enrollments give a school more kids that might have the talent and work ethic to have more success but what makes wrestling great is same size kids wrestle each other so it isn't like a 1A school going against a 6A school in basketball or football where one school has multiple 6'8" kids or multiple 300 lb kids who can physically dominate the other. Is it more convenient at larger schools with better resources? Yes. Does it prevent a small school kid from having success? No. I can work as hard as I want in basketball but I cant work hard enough to be 6'8". In Wrestling I don't have to overcome something I cant control. And its just not the "work harder' argument. It is truly a commitment to getting better. It takes sacrifice, dedication, hard work and still some talent to get better and be great. Now would it help the sport? Yes I think it would. More kids having success would bring out more kids. Its too bad we cant have an "all-in" team tournament by class with Sectionals, Regionals, Semi-States and State. The IHSWCA Team tournament is awesome but what about the school that winning a sectional or regional is a really big deal. Maybe it gets kids on the team to recruit some good athletes to fill weight classes. Gives more training partners. Helps develop a wrestling culture at a school.
  17. On the IHSAA Website in their yearbooks it gives a detail to each sports attendance and revenue. The last yearbook is the 2000-2001 season but here are some interesting numbers... 4th in Participation (Behind Football, Track and Baseball) 4th in Tournament Attendance (behind Football, Boys Basketball, Girls Basketball) $162,000 in revenue for entire state tournament (to compare girls basketball was $192k with more than double the attendance) To echo XCard, I think the IHSAA values wrestling and the tournament but are less interested in making significant adjustments to the format that might only impact a small percentage of the wrestlers. How many 5th place finishers at state each year are truly in the top 4 but got a bad draw? Maybe a couple of kids each year? The IHSAA is not going to make a significant change to the tournament for a couple of kids each year.
  18. The ref signaled unnecessary roughness and awarded the Def School wrestler 1 pt. Looked like the neck brace and stretcher were more precautionary but you never know in those cases. Hope the young man is ok.
  19. Obviously a very big topic this time of year.... just some thoughts on wrestlebacks at each level. Sectional - we have them after the pigtail matches. So as long as kids are seeded correctly and non-seeded kids are placed in pigtail rounds I think this is a good way to run the Sectional. Regional - You wrestle your way into your seed from Sectional and since only 2 Sectionals feed into a Regional there is no luck of the draw. Keep the same. Semi-State - Biggest opportunity for wrestlebacks but if you only do wrestlebacks after the 1st round then people will start asking for wrestlebacks all the way through and 16 man brackets cant be run in 1 day without running into the 5 match rule. Also most of the time the Semi State is wrapping up in the evening. To add Wrestlebacks might only add a couple hours but that means the event is going until late evening and the length of Saturdays is a big discussion regarding what is killing the sport (I know this applys much less cause most of these kids and families would gladly stay longer at this level but its still an issue). There also might not be the support of the HS admins as this would mean kids out on roads later in Feb when weather could be an issue and some are traveling 1-2 hours to get to their SS. There will always be bad draws and upsets. I say leave it the same. State - While it might not seem as if time would be an issue with the big break taken before the finals I dont think that break can be eliminated as they clear out BLF and re-admit everyone but there is more of an opportunity at State because it is 2 days. All that being said, I don't necessarily see the value. It might help with some recruitment but as out of season tournaments are becoming bigger and bigger with more and more coverage from flo and others I only see this helping a very few and the IHSAA isnt going to change for just a few. All in all it probably makes the most sense to look at WB for semi-state but time and matches make it the most difficult to implement. Plus we wouldnt get the 7 page thread on "death draws" and "need for wrestlback" in the forum to keep us entertained the week before SS!
  20. Yes... sorry... he wins but he still loses... still very important distinction. Thanks!
  21. Unless the wrestler winning commits a Flagrant Misconduct then he could lose but obviously this would be a pretty rare situation.
  22. Tournament match scoring errors: A recordable error must be corrected prior to the offended wrestler leaving the mat area if additional wrestling is necessary (Mat Area: Rule 2-1-5: the wrestling mat plus 10 feet). Otherwise, when additional wrestling is NOT necessary, the offended wrestler or coach must remain in the mat area. A computational error must be corrected prior to the next match in which either wrestler competes. Again, if additional wrestling is necessary, it must be corrected prior to the offended wrestler leaving the mat area. I would consider this to be a computational error as the adding up of points was not correctly determined during the action. Therefore, this could have been corrected if determined prior to either wrestler wrestling their next match since the error would not have required re-wrestling. Now maybe the referee, scorer and coaches could not determine that a computation error occurred (they couldnt specifically remember the score and situation) however if they could then it could have been corrected.
  23. I believe that all of this was known at the seeding meeting on Monday but the coaches did the right thing and seeded wrestlers as they should have been seeded. A big kudos to those coaches for the doing the right thing!
  24. As Maligned said, these are more examples of what the wrestlers did AFTER the year they were in this bracket. What is the most accomplished bracket coming into the state tournament? For Example 126 last year: Garcia - 1x champ, 1x 3rd place Rooks - 1x champ Viduya - 1x champ Mills - 2x 2nd and 1x 3rd Mejia - 1x 2nd, 1x 5th Poynter - 1x 4th Demien - 1x 7 Smiley - 1x 8 3 Crowns and 9 medals going in.... I am sure there are other examples from past years.
  25. All this talk about Maurer vs Hughes has got me thinking if this would come down to a flip of the disk. Making a couple of assumptions (for argument sake)... 1. First period would end 0-0 (Hughes fends off several Maurer blast doubles). 2. Hughes rides out Maurer but does not turn him for 1 period (won't make that assumption for 2 periods). What would the strategy be for each wrestler if they win the flip of the disk after period 1? Maurer wins flip - Does he take down to try and score 1st point? Does he choose neutral to go another 2 mins on his feet? Does he defer? Hughes wins flip - Does he take down to try and score 1st point? Does he choose top as this might be his only opportunity to hammer on Blake? Does he defer? I agree that Drew has advantage on top but going 30 second overtimes does Blake ride him too? Fun to discuss!
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