How Do We Grow?

[blueandgold]

When thinking about the growth of wrestling, how exactly do we grow? It seems on both high school and collegiate levels, the sport has definitely gone south. Universities such as Ball State, Indiana State, and even the much smaller Taylor, among others, all once fielded wrestling programs that have since been abandoned for reasons I don't know, but for the first two, I would assume due to Title IX. As for high school, teams such as Columbus East and Warren Central are forfeiting weight classes this season, again for reasons I don't know, but I assume can't be good because Warren not having a full lineup doesn't seem real. I am just wondering, where do we go from here and how do we grow? With the idea of seasonal wrestling being pretty much history, it seems like you lose many kids who do other things in other sports seasons and things become easy to walk away from when you don't have anything to invest in outside of your typical season. Are camps and clinics a necessary route? Combines such as the Oak Park-River Forest combine that invites coaches from all over to come watch kids in a practice setting and allows them the opportunity to network? What can we do in Indiana to make this sport bigger and give kids a reason to invest further?

[JustAnotherFan]

#1 - Get as many wrestling coaches as possible on football coaching staffs.   One of the area middle schools have a wrestling coach on the football staff (Although he finds it hard to teach anyone to “play”.  Not in a wrestlers nature.).   Numbers went from around 20 to around 50…..

[Clan Campbell]

I would say Indiana wrestling has grown far greater at the college level then ever; take a look on track at some of the results....  you reference days of old when the nation was in a very different state of mind, 40 + years ago when Indiana colleges fielded programs that they no longer do because of political reasons well beyond us.  Further, I would say USA wrestling did better in Olympics this year than ever before with Hoosier representation too.  Look at the depth of Indiana wrestling now through D1,D2,D3,Naia, and Juco; I would say it has never been stronger since the 30+ years I've followed.  What did we do to achieve this success?  Send the quantity of kids to super 32 like we've done in past years, go to Fargo, go to Disney, go to Va beach, send our HS teams out of state to compete.  If your wrestler doesn't break into varsity his first two years like his older brother, support him and encourage him for the future when he does.  Finally :), Support the greatest wrestling website across the 50 states which we have here at our home.  At least for IN, seems like we have a good formula and the future continues to look bright; seems like we're growing:)

[Wrestlingfan937]

More Individual tournaments instead of dual meets., allow Jv to fill in brackets as well. 

[Y2CJ41]

35 minutes ago, Wrestlingfan937 said:

More Individual tournaments instead of dual meets., allow Jv to fill in brackets as well. 

The average fans don't want to go to an individual tournament. They want a single weeknight dual.

[rookie78]

As far as super duals go, we found out that some AD's would rather their team get an extra bye (due to a team not being able to compete) rather than wrestle our jv (which would be a fairly competitive squad, that fills all 14 classes.  Got to give kids the opportunity to get on the mat and compete, win, lose or draw.

[Wrestlingfan937]

Very true, Really did not think about that. Tournaments are super boring for anyone that is new to the sport. Shoot I get bored still and I am a die hard fan haha.

 

Quick story: I took my wife to her first tournament to watch my brother wrestle at indy nationals, we were there for about 12 hoursgive or take. We were cramped, and hot. Needless to say, she despises wrestling ever since that day. 

[casualwrestlingfan]

2 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

The average fans don't want to go to an individual tournament. They want a single weeknight dual.

This is because they're used to Friday nights for football as well as Friday or Saturday nights for that other winter sport. Those are also solely team sports. If you get them hooked on duals, you may have a better chance for individual tournaments.

[Caleb Spires]

4 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

#1 - Get as many wrestling coaches as possible on football coaching staffs.   One of the area middle schools have a wrestling coach on the football staff (Although he finds it hard to teach anyone to “play”.  Not in a wrestlers nature.).   Numbers went from around 20 to around 50…..

This is likely the best solution to get more kids to come out. Football coaches who encourage the team to wrestle after the football season are very beneficial to the sport.

 

As far as growing a fanbase…. I don’t know how. It seems like unless somebody wrestled themselves, or have a child in the sport, they just don’t seem to get excited by the sport for some reason.

[Gasman]

Just throwing it out there - casual fans don’t want to sit at a meet for more than two hours. What if we dropped to 11-12 weights and made it a 3 classed system. Still have more kids making it to state while having dual meets that could

be completed in less than 2 hours. 

[Galagore]

The answer is a grass roots movement starting at the youth level. If you love the sport, try to find a nearby town that needs you. Fill out the background check and go try to start a youth program. Or go try to help a youth program that is understaffed. Our best programs are hotter than ever. It probably wouldn’t hurt them if an adult or two per program peeled off and tried getting something going in a community lacking wrestling tradition. In our conference, I can tell you that Caston, Culver, North Judson, and Pioneer all need your help. Triton, Laville, Winamac, and Knox probably wouldn’t turn away the help, either. If someone from the HNAC wants to correct me, please feel free. 

[Galagore]

Also, we all get it that clubs, camps, and regional tournaments are the way to become a great wrestler. We are not lacking great wrestlers in Indiana. We are lacking average wrestlers. Average wrestlers don’t wrestle in college. They don’t participate in IHPO. They don’t rank nationally. What they do is fuel the machine that keeps our sport relevant. There is plenty for the most dedicated. That should absolutely be maintained or expanded. Now it is time to shift focus to the seasonal wrestlers. How to we hook them? How do we keep them? They are the ones that keep the sport from becoming some niche club thing. 

[indypharmd]

16 hours ago, Galagore said:

Also, we all get it that clubs, camps, and regional tournaments are the way to become a great wrestler. We are not lacking great wrestlers in Indiana. We are lacking average wrestlers. Average wrestlers don’t wrestle in college. They don’t participate in IHPO. They don’t rank nationally. What they do is fuel the machine that keeps our sport relevant. There is plenty for the most dedicated. That should absolutely be maintained or expanded. Now it is time to shift focus to the seasonal wrestlers. How to we hook them? How do we keep them? They are the ones that keep the sport from becoming some niche club thing. 

 

Some of the posters on this thread and the other long thread on this topic seem to want different things -- I imagine mostly due to their particular circumstances/situations.

 

1. First of all WIN. Most folks want to be associated with a winner... Look at Crown Point and Brownsburg #'s to see this over the last 5-7 years...
2. Provide training opportunities for your core winners to get even better over the course of the year. Academies really help with this...   This will then help point #1...
3. Don't decrease opportunities for weight classes. This is dumb. I have a bigger kid. why should it be fine for him to give up 40-50 lbs to wrestle in a HWT or similar division if the wrestling minds whack the 215/220 class. (I remember being 200lbs and having to wrestle 265 back in the day, not fun at all...)
4. Wrestling is competitive... You win or YOU LOSE... This is not consistent with the PARTICIPATION TROPHY society we live in. Let's move the mean/median to a regressed state and have less spread so that everyone feels better about themselves... Ugh...  Why do you think armed services recruiters really love wrestlers and the USMC sponsors Fargo? 

So, coming up with a path to get #'s and increased quantities of average wrestlers is a goal for some. Just don't tank the road some in Indiana have taken to be able to finally compete at the higher levels while on that mission...

[casualwrestlingfan]

Good responses in this thread. I'll hit on a couple of things. Yes youth wrestling is where it begins and usually ends with some. I've helped in my stepson's club in Ohio for a few years. This year I was put in charge of coaching. I feel very under qualified as the former head moved on and was very qualified. The parents I have, have less knowledge than myself but I thank those that are trying to help. I've been trying to shift the focus of team trophy chasing to getting quality matches & opportunities for the kids. Club is maybe 5 years old if that, so I understood the trophy chasing at the beginning as it's a successful basketball school. 

The average wrestler to the multi sport athlete that's an average wrestler is my next point. We need those kids as mentioned. Why I push for having 3 or 4 tournaments sanctioned by the IHSAA. The classed team state duals are the most important. The IHSWCA have done excellent with it, and now it's time for the IHSAA to sanction it like the football tournament for teams with 7+ weight classes filled. The biggest one needed is a classed individual tournament. This is especially for the 1 & 2A classes. This gives the good multi sport wrestlers a chance to win something as the schools depend on those athletes to play 3 sports to field teams unlike 3&4A. We obviously need to keep the single class individual tournament for the 3rd sanctioned tourney. This allows the average wrestlers to improve by facing the elite. It also allows our elite to compete against each other & keep improving our national standing. The 4th & less needed is the single class team dual tournament. I've saw/listened to matches where that average kid steps up to become a hero in that tournament series. Many times not getting pinned by a stud advanced the team in those hero situations. That is the character building this sport provides and we need today.

[Galagore]

2 hours ago, indypharmd said:

 

Some of the posters on this thread and the other long thread on this topic seem to want different things -- I imagine mostly due to their particular circumstances/situations.

 

1. First of all WIN. Most folks want to be associated with a winner... Look at Crown Point and Brownsburg #'s to see this over the last 5-7 years...
2. Provide training opportunities for your core winners to get even better over the course of the year. Academies really help with this...   This will then help point #1...
3. Don't decrease opportunities for weight classes. This is dumb. I have a bigger kid. why should it be fine for him to give up 40-50 lbs to wrestle in a HWT or similar division if the wrestling minds whack the 215/220 class. (I remember being 200lbs and having to wrestle 265 back in the day, not fun at all...)
4. Wrestling is competitive... You win or YOU LOSE... This is not consistent with the PARTICIPATION TROPHY society we live in. Let's move the mean/median to a regressed state and have less spread so that everyone feels better about themselves... Ugh...  Why do you think armed services recruiters really love wrestlers and the USMC sponsors Fargo? 

So, coming up with a path to get #'s and increased quantities of average wrestlers is a goal for some. Just don't tank the road some in Indiana have taken to be able to finally compete at the higher levels while on that mission...

 

How do my suggestions tank the road for any wrestlers? If anything I suggested would take away from our top wrestlers, please inform so my perspective can be reviewed and potentially updated.

[casualwrestlingfan]

Side note, how many mats could Lucas Oil hold?

[JustAnotherFan]

How many basketball courts can it hold…X2 would be a comfortable guess.

[AdamsCoBuschhh]

10 hours ago, casualwrestlingfan said:

Good responses in this thread. I'll hit on a couple of things. Yes youth wrestling is where it begins and usually ends with some. I've helped in my stepson's club in Ohio for a few years. This year I was put in charge of coaching. I feel very under qualified as the former head moved on and was very qualified. The parents I have, have less knowledge than myself but I thank those that are trying to help. I've been trying to shift the focus of team trophy chasing to getting quality matches & opportunities for the kids. Club is maybe 5 years old if that, so I understood the trophy chasing at the beginning as it's a successful basketball school. 

The average wrestler to the multi sport athlete that's an average wrestler is my next point. We need those kids as mentioned. Why I push for having 3 or 4 tournaments sanctioned by the IHSAA. The classed team state duals are the most important. The IHSWCA have done excellent with it, and now it's time for the IHSAA to sanction it like the football tournament for teams with 7+ weight classes filled. The biggest one needed is a classed individual tournament. This is especially for the 1 & 2A classes. This gives the good multi sport wrestlers a chance to win something as the schools depend on those athletes to play 3 sports to field teams unlike 3&4A. We obviously need to keep the single class individual tournament for the 3rd sanctioned tourney. This allows the average wrestlers to improve by facing the elite. It also allows our elite to compete against each other & keep improving our national standing. The 4th & less needed is the single class team dual tournament. I've saw/listened to matches where that average kid steps up to become a hero in that tournament series. Many times not getting pinned by a stud advanced the team in those hero situations. That is the character building this sport provides and we need today.

 

 

YOUTH wresting is where it begins and ends.  I have family all over NE Indiana that is involved in wrestling.  Over the past 10 years some of the former power house programs in our area have not kept up with their kids...and have relied on "names".  Others have invested in their elementary programs and it's starting to show.  

 

It's weird, some of my family has kids that have "club" practice as well as the elementary team practices 4-5 days a week (and seem to keep it fun).  Others have practice once a week and have a joke of an elementary program.  Just look at the rosters on some of the Adams/Allen/Wells County elementary teams.  How many Decatur/Adams County kids wrestle for other programs?  WAY too many.  There are ISWA placers that do not wrestle for their local Adams County school for Club and Elementary schools.  It's a shame.

[Y2CJ41]

The growth needs to happen with part-timers. Either wrestlers in general or fans. People who wrestle November-January to keep in shape for football or because their buddies do it. Fans who come and watch the big local rivalry because it's a rivalry. 

 

Half of our wrestlers are done after sectional, but they are truly just as important as the regional qualifiers for the growth and stability of the sport. The simple answer is we need to make as many kids as possible have a positive experience in the sport. Of course that is way easier said than done and the "positive experience" part is totally different for everyone.