PoTweet Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I think an argument can be made for Sliga based on his national/international résumé. Tough to put him ahead of the 4x state champs, but I don't believe anyone in IN has had the national/international success he has had during their high school career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Picking THE greatest would be difficult. Sliga though, is clearly now one of the greats. And a fine example of a student athelete. IMO not winning 4 state titles makes Sliga the perfect example of it's not how ya start, it's how ya finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerHornet Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 It's hard to really gauge this question. There are just so many variables. Greatest freestyle or greco wrestler? A case could easily be made. Greatest folkstyle wrestler? Up for debate. Indiana has put together a recent list of studs who are having success in division 1 and internationally. In my mind it is hard to put anyone above Andrew Howe as far as the best wrestler in Indiana's History. However, you do have a list of studs such as Reece Humphrey and Angel Escebedo who have been performing at extremely high levels for sometime now. We can't ignore Tsirtsis either. He has yet to begin his varsity career at Northwestern but I'd imagine he will have GREAT success on the wrestling mat and a couple of national titles when it is all said and done. Micic has yet to finish his high school career and has been impressive to say the least. Not taking anything away from Sliga- this kid is an absolute stud and I look for him to one day bring home a gold medal and a couple of division 1 national titles. Until that time the verdict is still out. Definitely one of the greatest of all time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 so is the question greatest "high school" wrestler or greatest "overall" wrestler?........if you're going just high school then you about have to roll the 4 timers together and pick from that....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoTweet Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 so is the question greatest "high school" wrestler or greatest "overall" wrestler?........if you're going just high school then you about have to roll the 4 timers together and pick from that....... Excellent point it is stated high school wrestler and I would agree this could limit the discussion to performances in high school sponsored events. My intent was the greatest over all wrestler during their high school years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profestler Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 My intent was the greatest over all wrestler during their high school years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 In my mind it is hard to put anyone above Andrew Howe as far as the best wrestler in Indiana's History. However, you do have a list of studs such as Reece Humphrey and Angel Escebedo who have been performing at extremely high levels for sometime now. Then you can throw in what the accomplishment looked like on paper vs. what the actual circumstances/level of competition was. In some cases studs end up taking out young studs which take a little away from their total accomplishments on paper, but not from the great talent they matured into. Angel beats out Reece to prevent him from being a 4 time state champ, then Reece's beats Andrew (yes Howe was that small once) to prevent him from being a 4 time state champ. From that perspectice its hard not to at least mention guys like Reece or Andrew in a list of top guys even if they were only 3 time champs. Too many variables betweeb generations, competition level, high school season or all styles, in-state vs national accomplishments, lifetime accomplishments vs. in a certain time frame vs one year, to ever narrow it down. Better just to list some big names and how they have contributed to IN national recognition in wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenHeavyHandz Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I know some have done better outside our borders but i will argue on purely high school competition in our borders Lance Ellis dominated like no other. 177 straight victories and 151 falls. The first 4xer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerHornet Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Too many variables generation, competition, style, lifetime accomplishments vs. in a certain time frame vs one year, to ever narrow it down. I absolutely agree just too many variables. I do believe there are three time champions that are better than some of the four time state champions. But it is not really possible to quantify. Nor is it really possible to quantify a four time being better than a 2 or 3 time champion. So many undefinable factors. So it is all speculation. Nonetheless Sliga is one of the all time greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Pretty sure David McCubbins from Monrovia had the best credentials in the international style's during his HS days, although only a 1x champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 McCubbins had 4 cadet and junior titles along with a couple Espoir aka FILA Junior titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Pretty sure David McCubbins from Monrovia had the best credentials in the international style's during his HS days, although only a 1x champ. Per the Fargo Junior wrap up article it lists: David McCubbin 4 US national titles. Mitch Sliga and Jeff Pease 5 US national titles. We used to have a running list of national accomplishments (maybe on ISWA site at one point), but I'm not sure where that has went recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Schjoll Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 If talking international you have to also thow Kayla Miracle in the mix. I agree that there are too many variables to pick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I know some have done better outside our borders but i will argue on purely high school competition in our borders Lance Ellis dominated like no other. 177 straight victories and 151 falls. The first 4xer. that's pretty crazy to say the least.......pinning over 85% of your competition and never losing....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwilly Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Per the Fargo Junior wrap up article it lists: David McCubbin 4 US national titles. Mitch Sliga and Jeff Pease 5 US national titles. We used to have a running list of national accomplishments (maybe on ISWA site at one point), but I'm not sure where that has went recently. What is crazy is Pease never won a state championship. Without question best to never win IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 My vote goes to Jason Tsirtsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwrestler Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Jason Tsirtsis beat a soon-to-be Junior Freestyle champion at the state tournament as a freshman and a former DI national champion in freestyle as a senior... Hard to argue with those kind of results. Although for my money, Andrew Howe was the most dominant wrestler I've ever seen in Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatLover Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 David Taylor (Gang or Die) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlittlejohn Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I know some have done better outside our borders but i will argue on purely high school competition in our borders Lance Ellis dominated like no other. 177 straight victories and 151 falls. The first 4xer. Lance was not the first, but, actually the 4th. Estil Ritter, Bloomington: 1924, 175; 1925, 175; 1926, Hwt.; 1927, Hwt. Willard Duffy, Muncie Central: 1930, l00; 1931, 108; 1932, 115; 1933, 115. Howard Fisher, South Bend Central: 1949, 95; 1950, 112; 1951, 127; 1952, 133. Lance Ellis, Indianapolis Cathedral: 1986, 98; 1987, 112; 1988, 112; 1989, 119. Blake Maurer, Evansville Mater Dei: 2001, 130; 2002, 145; 2003, 171; 2004, 171. Alex Tsirtsis, Griffith: 2001, 119; 2002, 130; 2003, 135; 2004, 145. Angel Escobedo, Griffith: 2002, 112; 2003, 125; 2004, 130; 2005, 135. Jason Tsirtsis, Crown Point: 2009, 125; 2010, 130; 2011, 140; 2012, 145. http://www.ihsaa.org/Sports/Boys/Wrestling/StateFinalsRecords/tabid/321/Default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 My vote goes to Jason Tsirtsis. That's my choice... He's the best the I've seen in person for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlittlejohn Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 FYI... 3xer's Clarence Fortner, Terre Haute Wiley: 1922, 125; 1923, 135; 1924, 135. George Ross, Wabash: 1925, 145; 1926 145; 1927, 165. Charles McDaniel, Bloomington: 1931, Hwt.; 1932, Hwt.; 1933, Hwt. Ray Frankowski, Hammond: 1936, 165; 1937, 175; 1938, 175. Jack Foster, Hammond Clark: 1937, 1251b.;1938,125;1939, 135. Vernon Finley, Bloomington: 1943, 175; 1944, 175; 1945, 175. Jack Benson, Bloomington: 1944, 120; 1945, 127; 1947, 133. Richard Lyon, Bloomington: 1945, 138; 1946, 138; 1947, 138. Richard Perkins, Muncie Central: 1946, 95; 1947, 103; 1948, 103. Eugene Donaldson, East Chicago Roosevelt: 1947, 175; 1948, 175; 1949 Hwt. Bill Richardson, Lafayette Jefferson: 1956, 133; 1957,133; 1958, 133. Bill Andrews, Indianapolis Manual: 1957, 103; 1958, 112; 1959, 120. Charles Cone, Kokomo: 1963, 103; 1964, 112; 1965, 120. Jon Galloway, South Bend Riley: 1964, 154; 1965 154; 1966, 165. Jim Cornwell, Bloomington South: 1969, 103; 1970, 115; 1971, 119. Randy May, Bloomington South: 1974, 98; 1975, 105; 1976, 112. David Palmer, Muncie Southside/Delta: 1980, 167; 1981, 167; 1982, 177. Patrick Cassidy, Bloomington North: 1993, 103; 1994, 112; 1995, 119. Steven Bradley, Beech Grove: 1996, 119; 1997, 125; 1998, 125. Jake O’Brien, Franklin Central: 2001, 215; 2002 ,125; 2003, 215. Reece Humphrey, Lawrence North: 2003, 112; 2004 ,125; 2005, 130. Josh Harper, Mishawaka: 2006, 103; 2007, 112; 2008, 125. Andrew Howe, Hanover Central: 2006, 140; 2007, 152; 2008, 160. Sean McMurray, Portage: 2008, 135; 2009, 152; 2010, 160. Kyle Ayersman, Lake Central: 2010, 112; 2011, 119; 2012, 126. http://www.ihsaa.org/Sports/Boys/Wrestling/StateFinalsRecords/tabid/321/Default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profestler Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 We used to have a running list of national accomplishments (maybe on ISWA site at one point), but I'm not sure where that has went recently. I was looking for this list and thought I was loosing my mind -- glad to see that it did exist. Bring it back!!! It would make discussion like this som much easier. On the combination of in state and out of state accomplishments during high school years, Sliga may have the best combination 2x state champ, 2x 3rd (only losses in state were to state finalists that were 2-4 years older) 5 - Fargo championships; 1 Fila-cadet; cadet triple crown winner; USAW cadet folkstyle national champ; (non-championship accolades include 2x Fila Junior AA - with victories over D1 wrestlers including at least 1 NCAA qualifier; 5th in Fila Cadet's worlds) Jason Tsirtsis probably has the overall most impressive victories durring his high school years. 4x State champ (his freshman year run at the state finals maybe the most impressive ever as a freshman - beating the returning state champ that went on to win Fargo Juniors that summer and was runner-up at senior nationals) 1 Fargo Title (Junior - 4x AA I believe); Fila Cadet National Champion; 2x Flonationals Champ; Won Dapper Dan and Dream Team All-start Matches, 2012 Intermat's high school wrestler of the year Runner up at Super32 (twice i think) Wins at senior level while still in high school (In and Olympic team qualifier - he beat Former D1 national Champ - Unbelievable; barely missed out on qualifying for olympic team trials) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Here is what you are looking for. http://web.archive.org/web/20080827183224/http://www.iswa.com/allamer.html You can go to the following link for a more comprehensive list http://awn.theopenmat.com/junior-freestyle-all-americans/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Spires Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I vote Jason too, mainly because of how he handled Caldwell last year. Pretty impressive. Jason will definitely get a few D1 titles under his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I vote Jason too, mainly because of how he handled Caldwell last year. Pretty impressive. Jason will definitely get a few D1 titles under his name. Health will be the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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