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Mattyb

FloNationals

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Not the best semi-finals round for our guys, but in all fairness they have been the underdog/lower seed in every match they’ve lost, with the exception of the Indiana vs. Indiana match at 132.

Assuming Mason is in the championship, two finalists and about seven others guaranteed top 6 is still a pretty stellar tournament for Indiana. 

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59 minutes ago, MattM said:

Rump up 5-2 in third.  Tired to hit a backbow turn and was called for illegal hold (illegal in HS not college).   Maybe some confusion on which rules they were going by since FloNationals has some college rules added in.  Vega asked ref a few questions about it during injury time.  Bryant didn’t comeback out after injury time was up due to sore back, so Rump was DQed.   Vega not happy with how that one ended.   

Confusing as to whether he was hurt or not. Lost a lot of respect today for a decision a coach made. You can see online the coach told him to sit down. #hurtsoursport  

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Bryant stood up immediately after the whistle before he realized that Rump had been called for an illegal hold. Appeared to be a complete acting job by Bryant.  If he is truly hurt, then he should have restarted the match and injury defaulted so the more deserving wrestler could be in the finals. There was absolutely nothing malicious about the move. Bobby Douglas did it for Mocco several years back. 

I was excited about what was going on at CMA, but I lost a lot of respect for Bryant and Coach Prendergast today. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MattM said:

Rump up 5-2 in third.  Tired to hit a backbow turn and was called for illegal hold (illegal in HS not college).   Maybe some confusion on which rules they were going by since FloNationals has some college rules added in.  Vega asked ref a few questions about it during injury time.  Bryant didn’t comeback out after injury time was up due to sore back, so Rump was DQed.   Vega not happy with how that one ended.   

I have not seen the video of this, but here's my 2 cents worth:

Not coming back after injury time should only occur under the following circumstances-

1. The injured wrestler whether winning or losing, cannot finish the match, and the injury is a tournament ending injury (i.e. a legitimate inability to continue).

2. The injured wrestler is winning and was injured in a clearly illegal attempt to cause injury that might allow the losing wrestler to gain an advantage in the rest of the match.  (I have never actually witnessed this happen)

I think if you are losing and "win" by injury default, and are able to come back and wrestle later that day this is unsportsmanlike.  Again, I have not seen the video in this case; this is just my general opinion on these circumstances.

In the end, this is almost always the coaches call.  I've always had athletes say they would continue if they could wrestle at all.

Edited by .02

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1 minute ago, WrestingWOW said:

Seems to me Rump should have been at 138, what bullet was he dodging. Rum choose to avoid 138 competition, Bryant avoided further injury.

Why does he have to be dodging a bullet when there is a 5 lbs weight allowance here at Flo Nationals. This event is a Top 3 Event in HS Wrestling you gotta cut weight . He choose that that route. Great Job to Mr. Rumph ! 

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5 minutes ago, WrestingWOW said:

Seems to me Rump should have been at 138, what bullet was he dodging. Rum choose to avoid 138 competition, Bryant avoided further injury.

Who are you to judge what weight a young man, state champion at that, chooses to wrestle at a very tough national tournament?

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, 3xStateChamp said:

Why does he have to be dodging a bullet when there is a 5 lbs weight allowance here at Flo Nationals. This event is a Top 3 Event in HS Wrestling you gotta cut weight . He choose that that route. Great Job to Mr. Rumph ! 

That would be my 2 cents as well.  He competed at 138 during the HS season and "132" is 137 @ FloNationals.  Seems like a good call.  Don't think it means he's dodging anyone.  You make the weight, you wrestle.  That's how it always works all year....  Don't recall anyone dogging NATO for going down a weight this year.

Edited by .02

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3 minutes ago, WrestingWOW said:

Seems to me Rump should have been at 138, what bullet was he dodging. Rum choose to avoid 138 competition, Bryant avoided further injury.

This tournament there is a 5 pound weight allowance, 132=137 , Kris wrestled 138 all year as did Dawson , this is a national tournament , most people drop weight classes because of the weight cutting.. I Would have liked straight up high school weight classes , we would have went 138. As I am sure Rumph would have done the same.. Our best Indiana kids don’t run and dunk competition. Every weight class is loaded with talent ..

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14 minutes ago, WrestingWOW said:

Seems to me Rump should have been at 138, what bullet was he dodging. Rum choose to avoid 138 competition, Bryant avoided further injury.

So he should medically forfeit the finals. Ya know, to avoid further injury.

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30 minutes ago, maligned said:

Parris by Tech over a PA runner-up.

He will face Michael Wolfgram, PA 4th placer in final.  His semi-final foe DeBoe beat Wolfgram 5-2 in PIAA seminfinal.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

He will face Michael Wolfgram, PA 4th placer in final.  His semi-final foe DeBoe beat Wolfgram 5-2 in PIAA seminfinal.

Startlingly little competition for Parris @ this meet. Was he wrestling up just for a challenge? Hopefully he's at least getting some warm-up for the Dream Team match up with Whitman next week. Just my 2 cents

Edited by .02

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40 minutes ago, .02 said:

I have not seen the video of this, but here's my 2 cents worth:

Not coming back after injury time should only occur under the following circumstances-

1. The injured wrestler whether winning or losing, cannot finish the match, and the injury is a tournament ending injury (i.e. a legitimate inability to continue).

2. The injured wrestler is winning and was injured in a clearly illegal attempt to cause injury that might allow the losing wrestler to gain an advantage in the rest of the match.  (I have never actually witnessed this happen)

I think if you are losing and "win" by injury default, and are able to come back and wrestle later that day this is unsportsmanlike.  Again, I have not seen the video in this case; this is just my general opinion on these circumstances.

In the end, this is almost always the coaches call.  I've always had athletes say they would continue if they could wrestle at all.

I have seen the video and RUMPH was dominating the match. It was a Coaches call..Shame on him! 

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2 hours ago, NWIGRAPPLER47 said:

Confusing as to whether he was hurt or not. Lost a lot of respect today for a decision a coach made. You can see online the coach told him to sit down. #hurtsoursport  

 

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Posted (edited)

Was the move on Bryant illegal or not? Rules are rules for a reason. I know the Coach & Bryant. Culver teaches toughness everyday on & off the mat if you know anything about the school. Bryant is as tough as they come if he could have gone on he would have. If there wasn’t an illegal move this wouldn’t even be a discussion!!

Edited by Eagle2

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Posted (edited)

So based on all information that I have at my disposal. Rumph did not take the ankle to the head. He took it over Bryant’s hip. That is the rule book below.

Now here is the issue. As a coach and obviously a prior wrestler it is an unwritten rule not to take a DQ win if you are losing that bad and you know the kid did not try to hurt you. But the worse part here is it is quite obvious that Bryant was coming back to wrestle. He jumped off the mat, walked to the middle of the mat just fine and adjusted his knee pad. He then looks to his coach in the corner, his coach says something and then Bryant starts holding his back. That is beyond unethical for a coach to allow an athlete to take that win. This was the National Semi-Finals. Not just some random wrestling match. 

I can tell you that if Behling is a team leader for Indiana-Illinois duals, Portage will not have a representative. We will not have a kid wrestling under someone who would do something like that.

 

17ABC110-7DED-47EA-A600-EA2B48199F4E.jpeg

Edited by leggin89
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3 minutes ago, Eagle2 said:

Was the move on Bryant illegal or not? Rules are rules for a reason. If there wasn’t an illegal move this wouldn’t even be a discussion!!

This is a true point.  That said, lots of things are illegal (full nelson, head-lock without an arm, certain mat returns...). In all cases a point is awarded for the application of the illegal hold.  If the wrestler is injured as a result of the illegal move and is UNABLE to continue, then the match results in a DQ.

It seems to me that the discussion on this point is a result of the second half of that rule.

Did the illegal move result in INJURY?

Did the INJURY prevent the wrestler from continuing?

I still have not seen the video, so this is just my 2 cents about the scenario, not this instance.

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I can tell you the coaches have never told any of their kids to fake anything. If the coach did tell him to take the dive then shame on him. But you sir are putting words in the coaches mouth without knowing what was said. His job as a coach is to protect their kid is it not. They had a kid that wrestled with an injured back all year and they pushed him through it and people on THIS sight were calling him soft or a kid that quits so I know they would never tell Bryant to take a dive I’ll fight that all day!! 

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5 minutes ago, Eagle2 said:

I can tell you the coaches have never told any of their kids to fake anything. If the coach did tell him to take the dive then shame on him. But you sir are putting words in the coaches mouth without knowing what was said. His job as a coach is to protect their kid is it not. They had a kid that wrestled with an injured back all year and they pushed him through it and people on THIS sight were calling him soft or a kid that quits so I know they would never tell Bryant to take a dive I’ll fight that all day!! 

Watch the match. Period. 

Have you ever had a back injury? 

You definitely wouldn’t be adjusting your knee pad if you had a back injury bad enough to no longer continue.

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Watched it. All the coach can go off of is what the kid told him & the trainer. Spasms don’t always start the second something happens. AGAIN IF IT WASNT AN ILLEGAL MOVE WE WOULDNT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. PERIOD

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Just now, Eagle2 said:

Watched it. All the coach can go off of is what the kid told him & the trainer. Spasms don’t always start the second something happens. AGAIN IF IT WASNT AN ILLEGAL MOVE WE WOULDNT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. PERIOD

Again, look at the rule. If the ‘back bow’ does not go toward the head it is not illegal. The head official of the tournament agreed that it was not illegal.

The kid was fine. Walked to the center. Turned and looked at his coach, then all of a sudden grabbed his back. Reminder, this is a match he was losing 5-1 with a minute to go in the semis of what could be described as the toughest tournament in the country.

If he wrestles in the finals, it proves that his back was good enough to wrestle.

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