Banks Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, TysonNisley said: I always find it funny when a kid pulls an upset at a sectional or regional and gets punished for it. I remember my senior year, Ty Haskins had upset Malik Hall at regionals, and Malik Hall got an easy draw while Haskins pulled Bettich in the ticket round. Even this year, Kaptur Nowaczyk beat Johnny Cortez for the first time this year at sectionals, and now Kaptur has to wrestle the #10 in the state while Cortez gets a much easier road to state. My younger brother last year won sectional, lost a close heart breaker at regionals in the finals. He ends up drawing the number 1 in the bracket for the ticket. Im not being biased when i saw my brother was the second best wrestler in the bracket. Lost a close match with the number one. He goes on to win the semi state. Number 3 and 4 from our regional got a much much easier draw that day and one of them ends up making it to the next weekend. But thats the end of my brothers high school career? Its constant every year. Some kid draws the other really good kid and its heart breaking. For wrestling to have the best state series wrestle backs have to be implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Exotics Wildcats Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Mr. Faulkens has made it very clear that he hates that "w" word. Proposals have been made and some coaches have called it a qualifying round and Mr. Faulkens has been interested in that. Meaning if you lose in the ticket round you would grab the third or fourth ticket to state if you were to win in the qualifying round. The most important thing that the IHSAA cares about is crowing a single champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awill0352 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 What do other states do as far as wrestle backs for an all in style tournament like us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWINfan Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, awill0352 said: What do other states do as far as wrestle backs for an all in style tournament like us? Indiana is unique. It's been discussed. The majority opinion is wrestlebacks would be preferred. But thinking it may happen is like banging your head against a wall. jaycer02 and Alex Skipper 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 47 minutes ago, awill0352 said: What do other states do as far as wrestle backs for an all in style tournament like us? They all have it and 85-90% of our coaches want it when polled--but the IHSAA draws a meaningless line in the sand on it and refuses to budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 56 minutes ago, SWINfan said: Indiana is unique. It's been discussed. The majority opinion is wrestlebacks would be preferred. But thinking it may happen is like banging your head against a wall. Illinois is also an odd duck, as they sometimes change their state-placing method in some years. Last I saw was that the first round loser was in repechage, based on whether the guy who beat him won his second round match. It then becomes full double elimination wrestlebacks until the placement round of only six. Their state qualifier, called "sectionals", advances four in a full double elimination wrestleback. Their first round, "regionals", advances three, double elim wrestleback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerkleKing Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Tyce Freije vs. Bryer Hall ShawSki, FCFIGHTER170 and QuinnHarris 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 hours ago, busstogate said: Illinois is also an odd duck, as they sometimes change their state-placing method in some years. Last I saw was that the first round loser was in repechage, based on whether the guy who beat him won his second round match. Indiana had a similar set up at one point in its history where your 5th/6th or 7th/8th placement match was determined by who you lost to in the quarterfinals. We later shifted to a wrestleback format still used today for determining 5th-8th. In both systems 3rd/4th was still exclusive to those who lost in the semi-finals. busstogate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton047 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 6 hours ago, Coach Brobst said: In 2020, at 120, Jacob Simone of HSE was ranked #4 or 5 (I don't recall exactly) and drew #1 Zeke Seltzer (Who won state) in the ticket round after having lost by 2 to #2 and eventual runner up Carson Eldred from Westfield at Regionals. I believe that Diaz from Wheeler took 3rd that year and he and Simone had split that offseason in two tight matches. Obviously no way to predict what he would have placed, but worst draw I've ever had dealt to a wrestler in my program for sure. Yeah that one was rough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Cradle Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Matt Irwin vs Nick May 2003. May went on to be runner up that year to Reece Humphrey. Irwin had his battles with Humphrey the next two years at state; winning the title year after Reece graduated. Hornet Coach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCFIGHTER170 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, bbulldog152 said: 02/03 James from Pike vs Thompson from franklin county 2 years in a row. Thompson entered both match unbeaten on the season. James went on to be runner up at semi-state in 02 and Semi-state champ in 03. Pretty tough draw there. Also 2018 Parris and Guhl, At least worse draw for Guhl. This was a rematch of the Semi-state Championship match from the year before. Any other Draw he has a shot at making it and maybe even placing. Thompson beat me my sophmore year and we were in course to wrestle in regional finals my jr year but I lost to Barnhizer in one of our many wars that ended in 6-4 score every single time we wrestled, in the semis and Thomson beat Barnhizer in the finals.. James actually lost on semi state finals to my team mate Terrell coatie, James SS runner up year after Terrell pinned Danny Williams in the semis..I had beaten James in FS that summer prior iirc.. Thompson was one the best I seen not make it to state, you talk about a tank, I've never seen a 45 pounder as wide as he was tall and he had a motor on him.. I even felt bad for him when he didn't make it through, I lost to Jerry Gordon in a war in 03' who went on to get 6th coincidentally losing to James for 5th and 6th... James then was upset on Friday night the following year by Whittington who was a 4th seed by pin.. Jaggers dad, Uncle Bob told me about Thompson night before I wrestled him and I'll never forget him telling me "Son I know you are a strong young man but tomorrow vs Thompson that isn't going to work out too well, if you try to muscle the ball of muscle you're facing".. He was correct, he was a stud in every sense of the word and I rarely felt that kinda horsepower in a match.. And Uncle Bob told me when I lost 10-5 "Told ya so" Edited February 9, 2022 by FCFIGHTER170 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCFIGHTER170 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Ben Stewart vs Parris, his freshman year.. that match really opened a lot of ppls eyes. Jstephenson1356, bbulldog152 and blueandgold 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog195 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Colt Rutter vs Connor Gimson Jstephenson1356 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHS Sandcrabs Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Billy Baker vs Steve Stahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Nerd alert. If you randomly place the Top 3 kids in the state into the various regionals, the probability of having 2 in the same regional with the loser drawing into the semi-state bracket of the third Top 3 kid....is about 1 in 140. That means those truly monster Top 2 or 3 matchups like Rosbottom-Jankowski only happen about once a decade. SWINfan and FCFIGHTER170 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandgold Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 6 hours ago, FCFIGHTER170 said: Ben Stewart vs Parris, his freshman year.. that match really opened a lot of ppls eyes. Remember that like it was yesterday. 182 was freaking brutal that year at New Castle. FCFIGHTER170 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, maligned said: Nerd alert. If you randomly place the Top 3 kids in the state into the various regionals, the probability of having 2 in the same regional with the loser drawing into the semi-state bracket of the third Top 3 kid....is about 1 in 140. That means those truly monster Top 2 or 3 matchups like Rosbottom-Jankowski only happen about once a decade. Yes but... It doesn't have to be the top 3 kids. It just needs to be 3 of the top 8 kids. This will increase the odds considerably thus increasing the frequency of how often it happens. And history has most definitely shown that it happens much more often than once a decade. Furthermore, in most cases you probably have 1-3 kids who are truly in a class above the rest. Then probably 3-6 kids in a tier just below them & another 3-6 kids in a 3rd tier. So basically, you may end up with 12-16 kids that all have the ability to earn podium spots. But if some of them are coupled with others at the same regional & then draw into another one of those in the ticket round at Semistate, then you are excluding a kid who has a legit shot at placing from even the opportunity to compete at the State Finals. This most definitely happens more than once a decade. I am fairly confident it happens to multiple kids every year. Edited February 10, 2022 by SIACfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, SIACfan said: Yes but... It doesn't have to be the top 3 kids. It just needs to be 3 of the top 8 kids. This will increase the odds considerably thus increasing the frequency of how often it happens. And history has most definitely shown that it happens much more often than once a decade. Furthermore, in most cases you probably have 1-3 kids who are truly in a class above the rest. Then probably 3-6 kids in a tier just below them & another 3-6 kids in a 3rd tier. So basically, you may end up with 12-16 kids that all have the ability to earn podium spots. But if some of them are coupled with others at the same regional & then draw into another one of those in the ticket round at Semistate, then you are excluding a kid who has a legit shot at placing from even the opportunity to compete at the State Finals. This most definitely happens more than once a decade. I am fairly confident it happens to multiple kids every year. For sure many horrible draws happen on a yearly basis that are very unfair involving Top 5s and Top 8s and Top whatevers. We need wrestle backs. Also, for sure the theoretical top 3 don't get through regional and semi-state rounds without upsets. With that said... I was giving the very specific probability that the #'s 1, 2, and 3 rated kids would knock one of themselves out in the ticket round (with the assumption that no lower rated kid beats one of them). It's only once in 10 years that you get the very specific Top 3 death draw like when #3 Minton meets #1 Rosbottom at regional and loser draws #2 Jankowski at semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 35 minutes ago, maligned said: For sure many horrible draws happen on a yearly basis that are very unfair involving Top 5s and Top 8s and Top whatevers. We need wrestle backs. Also, for sure the theoretical top 3 don't get through regional and semi-state rounds without upsets. With that said... I was giving the very specific probability that the #'s 1, 2, and 3 rated kids would knock one of themselves out in the ticket round (with the assumption that no lower rated kid beats one of them). It's only once in 10 years that you get the very specific Top 3 death draw like when #3 Minton meets #1 Rosbottom at regional and loser draws #2 Jankowski at semi-state. OK, since the title of this thread is "Worst Ticket Round Draw Ever". Then your specific scenario is appropriate. But given 4 kids advance at every stage leading up to the finals, then any system that can create a scenario where 2 of the top 3 kids have to face each other in the ticket round with no recourse is severely flawed - no matter the frequency of occurrence. WrestleMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 minute ago, SIACfan said: OK, since the title of this thread is "Worst Ticket Round Draw Ever". Then your specific scenario is appropriate. But given 4 kids advance at every stage leading up to the finals, then any system that can create a scenario where 2 of the top 3 kids have to face each other in the ticket round with no recourse is severely flawed - no matter the frequency of occurrence. Fully agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet98112 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) There is only 1 valid answer. 1999 Merriville Semi-state. #1 Alex Ramos,#2 Josh Birge,#3 Robert Maldonado,#4 Andrew Bradbury. Birge lost 13-12 to Bradbury in the Ticket round. Bradbury went on to place 2nd to Ramos. The match is on youtube and Birge clearly wins this match not getting back points on 2 seperate occasions and handles the huge loss with class. Edited February 10, 2022 by Hornet98112 HornetSloan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 41 minutes ago, Hornet98112 said: There is only 1 valid answer. 1998 Merriville Semi-state. #1 Alex Ramos,#2 Josh Birge,#3 Robert Maldonado,#4 Andrew Bradbury. Birge lost 13-12 to Bradbury in the Ticket round. Bradbury went on to place 2nd to Ramos. The match is on youtube and Birge clearly wins this match not getting back points on 2 seperate occasions and handles the huge loss with class. WOW, that was one exciting match. The only thing I will say is that if you had 10 different Ref's officiate that match you would likely end up with 10 different final scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet98112 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, SIACfan said: WOW, that was one exciting match. The only thing I will say is that if you had 10 different Ref's officiate that match you would likely end up with 10 different final scores. What score did you come up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TysonNisley Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I also think it's funny that Gunner Henry had arguably the biggest win of his career last weekend and got rewarded with a top 8 guy in the ticket round. busstogate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 33 minutes ago, Hornet98112 said: What score did you come up with? 11-10 Bradbury I think the official gave each wrestler a reversal that I would not have. As far as back points go, it was a little difficult to judge from that video on when counts should start & stop. Neither wrestler was ever exposed for long. They both did an excellent job of rolling through when turned. The action was fast, fierce & at times very near the edge. To go along with one of the "Worst Ticket Round Draws Ever" it has to be one of the "Toughest Ticket Round Matches to Officiate Ever" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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