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If wrestling was a class sport........

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Just want to point out that Stevenson more moved to a specific school/academy than a state, in my opinion. Apple Valley was the draw, not the fact that Minnesota had class wrestling.  Regardless of class wrestling, schools like Apple Valley and Blair are just on a different level

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3 minutes ago, base said:

Just want to point out that Stevenson more moved to a specific school/academy than a state, in my opinion. Apple Valley was the draw, not the fact that Minnesota had class wrestling.  Regardless of class wrestling, schools like Apple Valley and Blair are just on a different level

But he left a single class state!!!! Has he thrown away all his classed state medal? That's what Mason Parris would do if we had class wrestling here! 

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1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Tell me why 90% of the states have class wrestling and we are the exceptions. Tell me in what way does it benefit wrestlers and more importantly the sport of wrestling by having no classes.

Tell me, in what way does it benefit wrestlers, or the fans, to have classes?...... Explain to me why 90% of the states want 4-5 champions per class?  Our current team championship series blows.  

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6 minutes ago, Jimmypock said:

Tell me, in what way does it benefit wrestlers, or the fans, to have classes?...... Explain to me why 90% of the states want 4-5 champions per class?  Our current team championship series blows.  

I surely don't want facts to get in the way of your opinion, but less than 15 states have 4+ state champions.

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12 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

I surely don't want facts to get in the way of your opinion, but less than 15 states have 4+ state champions.

Cool how many have 3+ champions?

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I am curious and this is open to anyone who knows the answer here..Of the states that have class, do elite wrestlers get an opportunity to wrestle “up” similar to elite teams do in some class sports here in Indiana when they meet the success criteria to be moved up ? 

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16 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

I surely don't want facts to get in the way of your opinion, but less than 15 states have 4+ state champions.

Cool how many have 2+ champions?

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58 minutes ago, wchew20 said:

I am curious and this is open to anyone who knows the answer here..Of the states that have class, do elite wrestlers get an opportunity to wrestle “up” similar to elite teams do in some class sports here in Indiana when they meet the success criteria to be moved up ? 

And also if you have a very unsuccessful school do they in fact get to move down to try to build?

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3 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

So again why did Gable Steveson who has won WORLD TITLES leave a single classed state to win throwaway medals in Minnesota? 

You can't answer that question can you? Imagine that.

Why are 75% of the state qualifiers from big schools(700+ students)?
Why are 82% of the state placers from big schools?
Why are 84% of the state champions from big schools?

Why can't you seem to answer questions with real answers instead of "Mason Parris would throw his medal away if he was in a classed system." Did he tell you that? Amazingly all these world class wrestlers aren't flocking to our state to wrestle in our single class system. I can't imagine why more Ohio guys aren't coming to wrestle in our superior state tournament.

Ohh.. here is some data in case you wonder where my made up stats are coming from.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18PWUXrlIjvzl_-I-HaflCB2w-r0a_sTkH-WWOcFKl2g/edit?usp=sharing

Maybe kids don’t move because wrestling is NOT the only reason for living in a state

OR

The parents have a great job and they are providing for their family very well

OR

They are close to their extended family and they have many people around them

OR

They have a special needs child who is being taken care of at a nearby facility

OR

THERE ARE A MILLION REASONS WHY PEOPLE DONT MOVE.

I can’t say it never happens because honestly I don’t know, and although a class system may (or may not) be an exceptional way to grow the sport the basis of an argument can’t be where you are going.

i sit on a few boards and if anyone would come to us presenting a business case in this manner it would not take me long to show them the door.

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Good Luck today !

So being from a 2A school and a new program - I am always curious to see this conversation.  I looked into some of our brackets as we have 5 kids at regionals this weekend.  

In those brackets 

3A schools  32 wrestlers 

2A schools 7

1A schools 1 

Our kids are two 1 seeds

two 2 seeds 

one 3 Seed 

the others are 4 seeds. 

 

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6 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

So again why did Gable Steveson who has won WORLD TITLES leave a single classed state to win throwaway medals in Minnesota? 

You can't answer that question can you? Imagine that.

Why are 75% of the state qualifiers from big schools(700+ students)?
Why are 82% of the state placers from big schools?
Why are 84% of the state champions from big schools?

Why can't you seem to answer questions with real answers instead of "Mason Parris would throw his medal away if he was in a classed system." Did he tell you that? Amazingly all these world class wrestlers aren't flocking to our state to wrestle in our single class system. I can't imagine why more Ohio guys aren't coming to wrestle in our superior state tournament.

Ohh.. here is some data in case you wonder where my made up stats are coming from.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18PWUXrlIjvzl_-I-HaflCB2w-r0a_sTkH-WWOcFKl2g/edit?usp=sharing

its been explained before but it needs to be refreshed....big schools have 10 times more student population than small schools(more in some cases) so common sense tells me they should have 10 times the number of qualifiers etc. etc. If qualifiers etc. etc. were more balanced, I wood question why big schools weren't more successful.

On Gable....I don't know why but haven't heard your answer....please explain !

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6 minutes ago, fearless fly said:

its been explained before but it needs to be refreshed....big schools have 10 times more student population than small schools(more in some cases) so common sense tells me they should have 10 times the number of qualifiers etc. etc. If qualifiers etc. etc. were more balanced, I wood question why big schools weren't more successful.

On Gable....I don't know why but haven't heard your answer....please explain !

How come the percentages get further and further away when you talk state placers and champs?

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42 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

How come the percentages get further and further away when you talk state placers and champs?

to be honest... don't know but can anyone answer this with 100% confidence ?  best guess is practice partners day in and day out pays off

Gable ?

have to go to work and don't have one of them fancy phones so have to wait to see your response...

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Wow that escalated quickly. I just want to say that class 1A wrestling is dying! I know because we see it every year. And I strongly feel like the reasoning is because the kids from these small schools can't stand a chance to these big schools. The numbers sometimes are so low that they can't even have a good practice. They have dual meets that consist of getting mopped on the mat, learning nothing. So eventually they give up the sport. (Not saying I agree with that) but they do. 

You aren't going to get a "good" coach willing to move to a program that has a total team of 5. So it's a never ending cycle of being stuck with a mediocre coach who just coaches wrestling during football's off season. Again I know this is true because I see it every year. 

Class wrestling may actually give kids a chance to compete with someone their own size. As well as not overinflating class 3-4 wrestlers to thinking they are better than they are because they stack their records, mopping the mat, with 1A wrestlers all season. My kid is a decent wrestler but I wouldn't want him earning a championship title and holding his head high if it's because he smooth sailed through to the top; he'd never know his true potential. 

Class wrestling isn't a "everyone gets a trophy" scheme, it's what makes sense and is fair. Still allowing true warriors to advance. 

*MY OPINION* if allowed ;) 

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13 hours ago, wrestleliferfan said:

Wow that escalated quickly. I just want to say that class 1A wrestling is dying! I know because we see it every year. And I strongly feel like the reasoning is because the kids from these small schools can't stand a chance to these big schools. The numbers sometimes are so low that they can't even have a good practice. They have dual meets that consist of getting mopped on the mat, learning nothing. So eventually they give up the sport. (Not saying I agree with that) but they do. 

You aren't going to get a "good" coach willing to move to a program that has a total team of 5. So it's a never ending cycle of being stuck with a mediocre coach who just coaches wrestling during football's off season. Again I know this is true because I see it every year. 

Class wrestling may actually give kids a chance to compete with someone their own size. As well as not overinflating class 3-4 wrestlers to thinking they are better than they are because they stack their records, mopping the mat, with 1A wrestlers all season. My kid is a decent wrestler but I wouldn't want him earning a championship title and holding his head high if it's because he smooth sailed through to the top; he'd never know his true potential. 

Class wrestling isn't a "everyone gets a trophy" scheme, it's what makes sense and is fair. Still allowing true warriors to advance. 

*MY OPINION* if allowed ;) 

I agree that that is your opinion and you should say I believe class 1A wrestling is dying, not stating it as fact.

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1 hour ago, fearless fly said:

I agree that that is your opinion and you should say I believe class 1A wrestling is dying, not stating it as fact.

Wow you are a tough critic. Do you listen to other's opinions to listen or to respond? Yes, I could have said I "believe" it is, but I followed my statement of it IS with I KNOW because I see it every year. It is dying. Numbers are dwindling, interest is dwindling. 

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I am new to wrestling and didn't even wrestle in high school.  I played basketball.  Which I don't know if that is an unwritten rule that you don't talk about here or not.  I don't think making basketball class has benefited anybody.  I know that our school won two state titles the first year of class sports. 1 in baseball and 1 in basketball.  Gyms were sold out, students loved going to games to watch.  Now its dead.  I'm not sure how going to class would increase the numbers.  We have just started a club about 5 years ago and it has steadily increased.  I'm very happy to say we had over 65 kids in our club this year 6th grade and younger.  I think that is how you increase numbers in small schools.  Not letting them win.  I have no data I can just speak from my opinion.  When my 3 boys go to get a job after college they don't get to apply at  1A businesses.  They have to compete with everybody.  I want them to learn how to do that now.  Not say to them "well we go to a small school so they have decided that it isn't fair for you to compete against bigger schools.  We as a society have screwed the small schools students up by telling them they can't compete.

Just a small town boys opinion that has a state championship ring but it has an * by it. 

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On 2/2/2018 at 11:59 PM, Y2CJ41 said:

So we should let 1A wrestling die? Ohhh I know, they should just work harder.

Note wrestling participation is down across the country, even in our great single class state. What are we going to blame that on? 

We can blame it on society. As a whole we're raising a bunch of soft ass entitled kids. We need to quit giving out participation trophies. You either suck and need to work harder or you have worked hard and you're at the top of the food chain. 

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People will disagree with me, but one of the hardest things about developing a program in Indiana is the constant moving from one school to another to be more successful. I have struggled with sending my son to a big school but at the end of the day, we are staying put. But, I have the resources to pay for private coaching in the offseason and travel. I believe better athletes will stay at their own school if they don’t feel the need to move to accomplish a deeper run in the state series. This helps develop smaller programs which increases competition everywhere. I can tell you that it’s much easier to recruit kids to wrestle if they feel like a deep run is attainable. I love our state title matches, but I think we’d develop more and better wrestlers and programs in a classed system. For the record, the head coach at our school disagrees with me. I’d like to see us give it a shot though. Try it for a few years and see what happens.

And the Mason Paris argument is silly. That kid wrestles enough across the country to prove he’s dominant. He doesn’t need the top class title to prove that. But maybe the kid that doesn’t have the same resources can obtain some meaningful accomplishments... that maybe, just maybe, can help achieve more confidence for the rest of his/her life.

I watch a lot of college wrestling. When the announcers talk about state titles, they never mention what class! I honestly believe kids are just as proud of their 1A state title as the kid that won at 3A. 

A class system would somewhat dilute our state championship, but would help grow the sport. So, are we in this for the fans? Or the kids and the sport overall?

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1 hour ago, asbury4040 said:

We can blame it on society. As a whole we're raising a bunch of soft ass entitled kids. We need to quit giving out participation trophies. You either suck and need to work harder or you have worked hard and you're at the top of the food chain. 

They must have started this downfall in the 60's and 70's when MOST states went to class wrestling.

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I don't understand why you want class wrestling so bad when your coaching at a 3A School?  How is class going to help the sport?  The schedule each team puts together is up to the AD and the coach.  If your program is down change your schedule.  I don't think kids aren't going to quite or wrestle based on class.  I think the biggest reason why kids don't wrestle is 1 we live in a basketball state, 2 its a tough sport that's not for everybody.  Why/How do you think its going to increase the number of  kids wrestling?

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26 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

They must have started this downfall in the 60's and 70's when MOST states went to class wrestling.

I live in Indiana. I'm only worried about Indiana. Why not be the leader and not the follower? You guys can cry all day about class wrestling. It really boils down to the kid, his heart, his determination. Simple. Class wrestling will do the same as class basketball. If that's what you like then good. It's really a matter of taste. Y2, you can bring up all the stats you want. It won't change the fact we're letting soft ass adults raise soft ass kids. Obviously this is just MY OPINION. I can't stand participation trophies. I especially can't stand adults telling kids losing is ok!!!! Give little johnny something to strive for instead of telling him good job when he just got his ass handed to him! 

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4 minutes ago, Raven27 said:

I don't understand why you want class wrestling so bad when your coaching at a 3A School?  How is class going to help the sport?  The schedule each team puts together is up to the AD and the coach.  If your program is down change your schedule.  I don't think kids aren't going to quite or wrestle based on class.  I think the biggest reason why kids don't wrestle is 1 we live in a basketball state, 2 its a tough sport that's not for everybody.  Why/How do you think its going to increase the number of  kids wrestling?

UncleJimmy

Did you really need to ask that again today? Was last week's/months/years class wrestling dissertation not enough for you? Carry on class debaters.....

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