Jcjcjc Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Jason wins the Reno tournament at 149. You gotta love that, Indiana. throw45, MOWrestler and Juggernaut 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 At a new weight and hopefully he can continue getting back to his old form. Though hopefully with a few more offensive attempts this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcjcjc Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 33 minutes ago, MattM said: At a new weight and hopefully he can continue getting back to his old form. Though hopefully with a few more offensive attempts this time around. Are you going to be more/less happy with his second NCAA title if it has a higher/lower attack rate? awood2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I think its more of an improving the odds statement. winning every match 1-0 or in OT can work but it can be better to go put points on the board in case you give up a TD here or there awood2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 ^This I’m just happy he’s back and hopefully able to get one more good shot at a title. But a few of the changes to the NCAA rule set in the last few years aren’t a aid to earlier style. We’ve seen Tsirtsis can be more offensive against top competition and hopefully he can tap into that more as he faces the top tier 149 guys. awood2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcjcjc Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 If he shot a bunch against Maple in the 1/4s would he have won? awood2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Woulda questions are irrelevent to this discussion seeing as neither of us have time machines.... are you trying to catch us off our feet? In mine, and apparently Matt's opinion, he needs to up his offense to see the kind of success necessary to win a title at that level. Justin Ratliff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1prouddad Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Unless he has changed a few things, no way he stands on top of 149 podium with the likes of Sorensen and Retherford there. I'm not counting him out, it's just that the odds aren't in his favor. I wish the best for him as I've always enjoyed watching him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Met Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 He has multiple wins over Sorenson, Zain is another story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunDevils Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 As a Sun Devil alumni I would love to see him win another national title. That being said odds definitely are against him if he doesn’t open up offensively. Since Penn State wrestlers definitely do not struggle scoring points. Especially Zain. Even though he has multiple wins over Sorensen he has been in a “slump” and I would just guess Sorensen would be favored by 4-8 points at this moment. I am very hopeful he puts together a strong season and stands atop the podium this year alongside Zahid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Followed all day - no OT matches. He looked soft at 157 - 149 is where he should be. Wondering if he gets a chance to wrestle off ? Or maybe the wrestle off will be the Midlands ? I just hope he can turn da corner ! Bomber, throw45, pfk_86 and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcjcjc Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 8 hours ago, Fabio Jr. said: Woulda questions are irrelevent to this discussion seeing as neither of us have time machines.... are you trying to catch us off our feet? In mine, and apparently Matt's opinion, he needs to up his offense to see the kind of success necessary to win a title at that level. I think they are relevant, but I understand your opinion. I’m not trying to catch you off your feet, I’m just trying to discuss the style and success of One if Indiana’s all time bests. If he were to beat Zain, would it be a high scoring match or a low scoring match? I’m just asking an honest question. When he beat Maple, it was a low scoring match. Does that connect to Zain or is it diffferent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 More offensive does not necessarily mean your running up the score. A few more scoring attempts in a match and more battling for position in between is more of what I’m asking than just trying to shut it down for almost the entire match and hope for the quicker escape at the end. Will he do well to try to slow down an offensive machines like Rutherford sure, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is just shutting down the whole match too. As Fabio said earlier, it doesn’t seem to me like a great option to hope he can just trade escapes and find that elusive extra score sometime in OT. Could it work, sure anything possible, but I wouldn’t think relying on that strategy is going to let letting lightning strike twice. If you recall the Maple match was in 2014. Rules have been adjusted at the NCAA level over the last few season which have have tried to push wrestlers to create action, prevent someone from causing stalemates, and stop those just riding the edge. Tsirtsis used those precious strategies a lot to keep many of his matches tight in 2014, he won’t be able to use them quite as much if he’s going to make the same run this year. I’m not suggesting he throw caution to the wind and attack at the pace of people like Zain. We have seen him be more offensive in matches against top guys before so we know he has the skill set in him. But I don’t think it’s wise to assume resorting back to his freshman year approach will allow him the same deep run this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jcjcjc said: I think they are relevant, but I understand your opinion. I’m not trying to catch you off your feet, I’m just trying to discuss the style and success of One if Indiana’s all time bests. If he were to beat Zain, would it be a high scoring match or a low scoring match? I’m just asking an honest question. When he beat Maple, it was a low scoring match. Does that connect to Zain or is it diffferent? JT won't find any bigger fans than the ones commenting on this thread right now, but I'm of the same opinion as some others: when he won his title, his attack rate--even in low-scoring matches--was much higher. He openly admitted following his disappointing finish his sophomore year that his approach all year hadn't been great: he was way too scared of losing because he was thinking too much about becoming an all-time great rather than just getting better. Then all the personal stuff & NW upheaval happened in the following couple years and he's never recovered the engine and attack-rate we once saw. To answer your question--of course he won't win a high-scoring match with Zain (who's on another planet compared with Maple, by the way). He'll always have his own style; but in a few people's very humble opinions, he'll have to attack more to place high at NCAAs if he can get the regular lineup spot. Edited December 18, 2017 by maligned Justin Ratliff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navy80 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 After what he’s been through....I’m just happy he’s back and has won a few matches. I dont care care if he wins a national title this year. He’s already won one and represented indiana well. I think this year is more about him being resilient etc. throw45, MitchRobb, wrestler32 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCFIGHTER170 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, navy80 said: After what he’s been through....I’m just happy he’s back and has won a few matches. I dont care care if he wins a national title this year. He’s already won one and represented indiana well. I think this year is more about him being resilient etc. Just having fun doing what he loves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaveitonthemat Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Is he going to make Arizona State's starting lineup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, navy80 said: After what he’s been through....I’m just happy he’s back and has won a few matches. I dont care care if he wins a national title this year. He’s already won one and represented indiana well. I think this year is more about him being resilient etc. I feel the same way. I was just ecstatic to see him competing. We (I) can get caught up in the impersonal business of analysis; but whether that dude wins another title or walks away tomorrow, he won't be any more or less of a hero to us in Indiana. awood2, throw45, FCFIGHTER170 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 all I can say I'm proud he is a region rat. I hope da lad finds his way on da podium throw45 and Bomber 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Not sure if we can roll with Zain but AA is def I'm the realm of posibilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Beating Maruca is easier than beating Shields at ASU. He has to crack the lineup first. Hope he does because i respect him immensely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Only way he beats the Zain Train is counter offense, ride out, and getting away or not getting scored on while on bottom; he will not win off of his own attacks. Probably couldn't get off one legit set up offensive attack on Retherford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMILL Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 10 hours ago, Grenadier2012 said: Only way he beats the Zain Train is counter offense, ride out, and getting away or not getting scored on while on bottom; he will not win off of his own attacks. Probably couldn't get off one legit set up offensive attack on Retherford. It sounds like you are saying he will only win if he scores more points and rides Zain out ???? interesting....LOL (I kid I kid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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