gogoplata89 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 171 is stacked with men from the New Castle Semi state. 171 1 Tyler Willis- Indpls Cathedral 11 2 Mike Smith- Indpls North Central 12 3 Nick Manning- South Dearborn 12 6 Ian Early Greenfield Central 11 7 Damon Albertson- Roncalli 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 ttt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthemat Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Did the brackets get taken down? One minute they were there, now they are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Did the brackets get taken down? One minute they were there, now they are gone. I'm guessing their was confusion with their accurace and/or with their final look based on how the rules for bracketing were presented. Not sure which but to ensure that missinformation was not getting out someone probably removed them from the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pski Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 I doubt these are the real brackets based on the fact that Pam Noble (The A.D. AT Connersville) clearly stated that this tournament would not be seeded. Also the final roster is not due until Monday Dec. 27th at noon and we did not provide records or any seeding information. I have been involved with this tournament for many years and the draws have never come out until after weigh-ins and many weights have to be redrawn. If these are the draws so be it, I dont really care. Just be cautious because we havent recieved any information on draws or seeds. Lance Ellis I would like to have a copy of these brackets as well. Just so I can compare them when I sit down with the other Coaches the day of the Tournament. The Classic is suppose to be a BLIND DRAW and if they are putting the brackets together without the coaches input then I think there are going to be a lot of upset coaches. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 I would like to have a copy of these brackets as well. Just so I can compare them when I sit down with the other Coaches the day of the Tournament. The Classic is suppose to be a BLIND DRAW and if they are putting the brackets together without the coaches input then I think there are going to be a lot of upset coaches. > Why would the coaches be upset if they separated the top four kids based off rankings or previous state tournament advancement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Wrestler 2006 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Why would the coaches be upset if they separated the top four kids based off rankings or previous state tournament advancement? For me, it goes against everything that makes Connersville so special. Going in on day way and not knowing who you are going to draw in the first round, or who are on each side of the brackets. I have been apart of the Spartan Classic ever since I was in high school, and now as a coach, I would be upset if they did any kind of seeding, especially without consulting with the coaches. This tournament should not be seeded ever...Whats better than the best two kids in the weight class meet up first round??? Makes for one hell of a match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Whats better than the best two kids in the weight class meet up first round??? Does it make the same match in the finals any less exciting? Keeping things the same because "thats they way they have always been" is never a good reason to not look for ways to improve something. Just because you have always been taught a standup one way, doesn't mean that there might be some better ways of teaching a standup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numberz Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Joe, do you have any insight into Connersville seeding or non-seeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 "Brackets" were posted last night, but taken down by the author a few hours later. They looked pretty legit as they had all the teams and names of wrestlers for each team listed. I do not know the reason for the retraction or if indeed they were the "real" thing. If they were a hoax, someone surely spent quite a bit of time on them and I applaud their effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Does it make the same match in the finals any less exciting? Keeping things the same because "thats they way they have always been" is never a good reason to not look for ways to improve something. Just because you have always been taught a standup one way, doesn't mean that there might be some better ways of teaching a standup. You don't throw tradition out the door either. Can two different ways not co-exist? Might both ways provide some level of interest and excitement that would otherwise be missing if there were only one way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 You don't throw tradition out the door either. Can two different ways not co-exist? Might both ways provide some level of interest and excitement that would otherwise be missing if there were only one way? If tradition is the only reason to keep doing something as silly as not seeding a 32 man tournament, then I think its time to change. Tradition should NEVER be the sole reason to keep doing something that doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGJOESCOUT Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 If tradition is the only reason to keep doing something as silly as not seeding a 32 man tournament, then I think its time to change. Tradition should NEVER be the sole reason to keep doing something that doesn't make sense. true Joe and besides MT Vernon gave up their voice in the tournament when they chose to go to the MD Holiday Classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdwn2 Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 For me, it goes against everything that makes Connersville so special. Going in on day way and not knowing who you are going to draw in the first round, or who are on each side of the brackets. I have been apart of the Spartan Classic ever since I was in high school, and now as a coach, I would be upset if they did any kind of seeding, especially without consulting with the coaches. This tournament should not be seeded ever...Whats better than the best two kids in the weight class meet up first round??? Makes for one hell of a match! I have to disagree. What makes a great tournament is when you get down to the final couple of rounds and know you are going to see some great matchups. Watching kids get all the way to the finals when you know they are the 3rd or 4th best wrestler at that weight is not good IMO. I want a tournament to build up to a championship, not have Raley and Kiefer in the first round. If this were to happen, one of the best wrestlers in the state would probably not be mentally 100% wrestling through the loser bracket.....and probably destroying everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 If tradition is the only reason to keep doing something as silly as not seeding a 32 man tournament, then I think its time to change. Tradition should NEVER be the sole reason to keep doing something that doesn't make sense. If the blind draw is such a silly thing, then why do they continue to host it that way? Why do teams continue to attend? Is it laziness, stupidity, have they never experienced the joys of a seeded tournament? Maybe it is possible that the blind draw has some redeeming qualities. I believe there is room for two competing ideas and in fact, there are legitimate reasons to support either tournament format. I would like to see Reitz win, and I expect them to do very well. Great article in the Evansville paper today about the Reitz program. http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/dec/23/reitz-racks-up-wins-not-smiles/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Professor Morgan Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 I wrestled at Connersville all four years of high school for Lawrence Central and I loved the blind draw. Unlike seeded tournaments you had to be prepared to wrestle anyone right from the get-go. My freshman year I wrestled Danny Norman from New Palestine first round and lost, but I wrestled all the way back. Sophmore year I decided I didn't care who stood in my way, the finals was only 4 matches away whereas the consolations were nearly ten and I got to the finals for a rematch with Norman. Junior year I wrestled Dedrick Harrison from Cathedral and then made it to the finals against another state qualifier. Senior year my first round match was against Qualyn Boone of Fort Wayne Snider who placed 6th at state that year. Every match in preparation to the finals my senior year was against a semi-state qualifier or better and the finals I won by technical fall over someone who had a much easier side of the bracket. However, as a wrestler I feel it made me better having to prepare for the guys who placed 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th to get to the finals. Another match-up I remember being first round that drew a crowd was Phuong Hong from Lawrence Central and Ted Bugbee from Cathedral with Hong winning. By seeding a tournament like this I think you lose some of the great early matches that can happen. With it being blind draw as a fan I need to come both days because I just don't know when the top kids will be wrestling each other versus a seeded tournament where I know that if I show up for the Semi-finals I will get to see the best kids. It makes the tournament more enjoyable as a spectator if there will be great wrestlers meeting up early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 true Joe and besides MT Vernon gave up their voice in the tournament when they chose to go to the MD Holiday Classic! So someone associated with a team not in the tournament can't comment on it? C'mon. If that's true, should Y2 be commenting on it? Is his team in the tournament (maybe it is; I don't know)? How many others shouldn't be commenting on this thread, then. I can tell you at one time the tournament directors told us they wouldn't seed the tournament but would attempt to split wrestlers who were outstanding. What they used as a criteria to determine "outstanding", I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 A blind draw could have a few upsides. For fan you are guaranteed a few solid match ups of top kids almost each round of the event not just in the semi-finals and finals. For wrestlers you have to be physically and mentally prepared for what comes next entire length of the event not just slowly ramp it up as you go along. This could more accurately prepare them for the later rounds of the state tournament series where you need to be on top of your game from start to finish. While seeding a bracket out may help to ensure the best guys make it to the final spots, the blind draw does add some intrege and drama to the event that otherwise usually doesn't happen until the final rounds. I'm not in favor of one over the other. Going against the norm to have something unique nor keeping with tradition doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. If teams and fans are willing to show (for whatever reasoning) then I'm guessing it worth continueing as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC118 Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 The Spartan Classic used to be a seeded tournament. The problem was the 6 hour seeding meeting which become quite ugly at times (as you can imagine)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 So someone associated with a team not in the tournament can't comment on it? C'mon. If that's true, should Y2 be commenting on it? Is his team in the tournament (maybe it is; I don't know)? How many others shouldn't be commenting on this thread, then. There are really only 2 opinions that matter ..............mine and anyone that has the same opinion as I do... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towelboy08 Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 From a wrestlers stand point: if you truly believe your the best, then you have no problem wrestling anybody at any point throughout the tournament. From a team stand point: obviously only one champion but could be very decisive in the final team standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsfan Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 You guys are idiots if you think Raley should wrestle Kieffer at 8:30 on Tues morning at Connersville. Come on get real!!! Seed the obvious and blind draw the rest. It is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 The Spartan Classic used to be a seeded tournament. The problem was the 6 hour seeding meeting which become quite ugly at times (as you can imagine)! The bad part is if you have someone that knows what they are doing they can seed it pretty easily. Last year I sat in on the Al Smith seeding meeting and it went really smoothly and took just over an hour. On top of that at the Al Smith there is no set criteria and yet they can do it pretty easily... it tells you something that if you have someone running the meeting that knows the kids and knows what they are doing they can do it in a fairly timely fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 You guys are idiots if you think Raley should wrestle Kieffer at 8:30 on Tues morning at Connersville. Come on get real!!! Seed the obvious and blind draw the rest. It is a no brainer. they may wrestle at 8:30 am on a saturday in february so why not at 8:30 in december..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Wrestler 2006 Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 I wrestled at Connersville all four years of high school for Lawrence Central and I loved the blind draw. Unlike seeded tournaments you had to be prepared to wrestle anyone right from the get-go. My freshman year I wrestled Danny Norman from New Palestine first round and lost, but I wrestled all the way back. Sophmore year I decided I didn't care who stood in my way, the finals was only 4 matches away whereas the consolations were nearly ten and I got to the finals for a rematch with Norman. Junior year I wrestled Dedrick Harrison from Cathedral and then made it to the finals against another state qualifier. Senior year my first round match was against Qualyn Boone of Fort Wayne Snider who placed 6th at state that year. Every match in preparation to the finals my senior year was against a semi-state qualifier or better and the finals I won by technical fall over someone who had a much easier side of the bracket. However, as a wrestler I feel it made me better having to prepare for the guys who placed 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th to get to the finals. Another match-up I remember being first round that drew a crowd was Phuong Hong from Lawrence Central and Ted Bugbee from Cathedral with Hong winning. By seeding a tournament like this I think you lose some of the great early matches that can happen. With it being blind draw as a fan I need to come both days because I just don't know when the top kids will be wrestling each other versus a seeded tournament where I know that if I show up for the Semi-finals I will get to see the best kids. It makes the tournament more enjoyable as a spectator if there will be great wrestlers meeting up early. Couldn't have said it better Mike...glad to see your gonna be back this year coaching at Connersville....as for a wrestler not being 100% , mentally if losing to a good wrestler in the first round, well that is their problem....If they are good too then it shouldn't make a difference. They should be ready to wrestle no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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