Y2CJ41 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The quality of opponents for Red is way higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelCo Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Might be stupid, but who is Angels loss to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Bat Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Who did Angel beat on the national level though? Probably not the likes of Luke Pletcher, Taylor Lamount, Kanan Storr, Jaden Enriquez. Also Nick Lee and Chad Red would've majored or tech falled Angel's finals opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Might be stupid, but who is Angels loss to?Joe Gomez from Illinois. He was a top recruit out of high school, but never wrestled in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD92 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Who did Angel beat on the national level though? Probably not the likes of Luke Pletcher, Taylor Lamount, Kanan Storr, Jaden Enriquez. Also Nick Lee and Chad Red would've majored or tech falled Angel's finals opponents. There weren't the same amount of national showcases that there are today, so it's not really apples to apples. My eyes tell me that Angel would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickfor6 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Placements at state Angel Escobedo, Griffith 1st,1st,1st,1st Craig Macke, Evansville Mater Dei 4th,2nd,2nd,3rd Matt Jaggers, New Castle 5th,7th,2nd Erik Johnson, Yorktown 6th, 2nd Mike Leucuta, Portage 8th,2nd Average placement - 3.1 Chad Red, New Palestine 1st,1st,1st,1st Garrett Pepple, East Noble 2nd, 2nd, 1st Forrest Glogouski, Fairfield 6th,2nd Gaige Torres, Portage 7th,2nd,2nd Nick Lee, Evansville Mater Dei 3rd,1st,2nd, ? Average placement -2.26 I'm still taking Angel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Here is Joe Gomez's profile from the Illinois website http://www.fightingillini.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1763 He was the #13 ranked recruit when he graduated as a two-time Illinois champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Culp Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Placements at state Angel Escobedo, Griffith 1st,1st,1st,1st Craig Macke, Evansville Mater Dei 4th,2nd,2nd,3rd Matt Jaggers, New Castle 5th,7th,2nd Erik Johnson, Yorktown 6th, 2nd Mike Leucuta, Portage 8th,2nd Average placement - 3.1 Chad Red, New Palestine 1st,1st,1st,1st Garrett Pepple, East Noble 2nd, 2nd, 1st Forrest Glogouski, Fairfield 6th,2nd Gaige Torres, Portage 7th,2nd,2nd Nick Lee, Evansville Mater Dei 3rd,1st,2nd, ? Average placement -2.26 I'm still taking Angel! With the avg placements, are those just what they placed? Are you adding in the years they did not place? Did not qualify? Also add in that Angel beat Humphrey when they both were Freshman, keeping Reece from being a 4 time champ. He also beat Shane Perkey and Macke in the semis as a sophomore and a Jr. Both freestyle/greco all americans. However he never wrestled a Nick Lee type matchup where everyone was talking about it. Macke was probably the closest he got to that type of match, as Macke was one of the best to never win a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Interestingly three of Red's opponents had interesting reasons why they didn't qualify at least one more time Pepple was JV as a freshman Torres had an illegal slam end his sophomore season early Glogouski lost in the ticket round his freshman year and as a junior year he lost to two-time placer Schuyler Phillips in the ticket round mhelmins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickfor6 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) add placement divided by # of medals angel 1st,1st,1st,1st === 1+1+1+1=4 ===4/4= 1 Edited March 10, 2016 by brickfor6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Depends. If angel has spent significant time in Illinois, I choose him to win by tech fall. Otherwise, it's a coin flip He has spent a lot of time in Illinois, as a member of the IKWF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Add national champs Gabe Townsell and Mitch McKee to Red's list. Angel was and is unbelievable, but Red is the GOAT in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takedownartist Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Once Red wins an NCCA title and lands on some World teams then, yeah they are equals...... Edited March 10, 2016 by takedownartist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrastler2244 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Something tells me that if this thread was on a fantasy match-up between Nick Lee and angel most would say Lee.... Coach Nieman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWwrestling1996 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Escobedo's opponents wrestled in a total of 5 finals matches, and Red's opponents have wrestled in 8 and after next year Nick Lee it'll be 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Joe Gomez from Illinois. He was a top recruit out of high school, but never wrestled in college. Edited March 12, 2016 by MCKAJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rav67 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 This is dumb, Red would damn near beat Angel today, probably would... Stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 This is dumb, Red would damn near beat Angel today, probably would... Stop. You just got exposed as someone who's never seen Angel wrestle. I've seen both of them in many, many matches and I think Red would win--but you've clearly never seen Angel and definitely didn't see him in high school. Dwilly and FWwrestling1996 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoISU Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Joe Gomez from Illinois. He was a top recruit out of high school, but never wrestled in college. I was in Fargo when Angel wrestled Gomez for the first time since the loss... The match didn't last long. Angel absolutely destroyed him. Honestly, Angel wins. He was too good on his feet (even though internationally he's seemed like he has concrete shoes on in the last few years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco165 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 This is dumb, Red would damn near beat Angel today, probably would... Stop. Erm... Angel was an NCAA champ, 3x Big 10 champ, and 4x all-american, and has been wrestling top level international competition for several years. Chad Red has been beating up on high school kids for a few years. See the difference? FWwrestling1996 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCrotchNinja Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 I see a lot of people talking about Angel AFTER high school. Chad Red as a senior vs Angel as a senior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) I see a lot of people talking about Angel AFTER high school. Chad Red as a senior vs Angel as a senior. The previous poster was commenting on someone else's comments about Red, suggesting this debate is pointless because Red could basically beat him now. The poster was just clearing up the fact that Angel would obviously clobber him right now--and that the discussion about HS senior vs. HS senior is very worthwhile based on how good Angel was at the time and how good he became. Edited March 14, 2016 by maligned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) The previous poster was commenting on someone else's comments about Red, suggesting this debate is pointless because Red could basically beat him now. The poster was just clearing up the fact that Angel would obviously clobber him right now--and that the discussion about HS senior vs. HS senior is very worthwhile based on how good Angel was at the time and how good he became. yeah not close today. IN is far deeper today than in Angel's day. It will be very difficult for him to match Angel's carrier. If I were a betting man I bet against it. JMO. Edited March 14, 2016 by MCKAJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogoplata89 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Micic lost to Angel at the Schultz back a little over a year a go, 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) moved this comment to new thread Edited March 15, 2016 by maligned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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