Team State qualification leaderboard 2023 (FINAL)

[bomber_bob]

1 hour ago, brickfor6 said:

Stinks that the Hobart Regional was Category 2 this year... 

Hobart Regional: 9 qualifiers, 6 placers, 3 semi-finalist

 

Logansport had 2 placers from the same school. They were a category 3.  

 

IF is the biggest 2 letter word in the dictionary. 

Hobart was on the cuff of making it as an autobid. Our HWT only scored sectional points, and wrestled at the semi-state. Our 220 Scored only regional points and wrestled at the semi- State. IF they would have won 1st round of SS, that would have boosted our score by 29 points I believe. (Putting us in 3rd)

 

@malignedI know this is a ton of work, but I just wanted to say thank you. I believe we are good enough to be there next year. 2 Returning State medalist, 5 returning semi-state qualifiers, and some MS wrestlers that will make an immediate impact. 2 of which are ranked #4 & #22 on the MS Rankings on Indianamat.

 

Is this an example of the "crowdedness" that determines the category numbers that was referenced by @maligned a few weeks back? 

 

Hobart Regional has 2, 8-team Sectionals that feed into it = 16 total schools

Logansport Regional has 2, 12-team Sectionals that feed into it = 24 total schools. 

 

Not at all disagreeing with Brick, I think it's a valid question. Just trying to wrap my head around the math and how the categories are determined. 

[maligned]

1 hour ago, brickfor6 said:

I know this is a ton of work, but I just wanted to say thank you.

Thank you for the kind words. You guys have always approached the process as objectively as can be possible in a coach's position while pushing hard for your team.

 

1 hour ago, brickfor6 said:

Logansport had 2 placers from the same school. They were a category 3.  

I know you know this, but number of placers has nothing to do with sectional or regional crowdedness. It's like saying KV is probably a better duals team than you because they got a state champ. They're two disconnected concepts only very slightly related. Also, if your regional had been a 3, you'd still be at 153. 

 

1 hour ago, brickfor6 said:

IF is the biggest 2 letter word in the dictionary. 

Hobart was on the cuff of making it as an autobid. Our HWT only scored sectional points, and wrestled at the semi-state. Our 220 Scored only regional points and wrestled at the semi- State. IF they would have won 1st round of SS, that would have boosted our score by 29 points I believe. (Putting us in 3rd)

Yes, certainly if those 2 guys had won, you'd have qualified. It's a very strong group of teams all closely matched among the Top 20 in this class.

[brickfor6]

13 minutes ago, maligned said:

I know you know this, but number of placers has nothing to do with sectional or regional crowdedness. It's like saying KV is probably a better duals team than you because they got a state champ. They're two disconnected concepts only very slightly related. Also, if your regional had been a 3, you'd still be at 153. 

Yes I know it doesn't change much of the score, but also I believe that we would have scored more than 153, because I believe that the category of our sectional would have went up as well. My 132, 160, 182 all received, sectional points when they wrestled at the regional. that is 6 more points. Then add in the extra 11 that my 220 would have had, that would have drawn us up to 160 points.

 

Now, I think that the system is great. I do believe that the guy that we beat at HWT first round of regionals should not earn more points than us, but this is the only thing I have to complain about. I can complain about the categories all day, I am not the expert. lol

 

Now crowdedness, I understand that there is more teams there, but the level of competition is different. 

For example: Hobart Regional: 113-Placer 126- Qualifier 132- Placer 138-Qualifier 152- Placer 160- Qualifier 170-Placer 182- Placer 285- Placer. 9 different weight classes had a competitor at state from the Hobart Regional.

 

 

 

 

[CoachM]

19 hours ago, brickfor6 said:

Stinks that the Hobart Regional was Category 2 this year... 

Hobart Regional: 9 qualifiers, 6 placers, 3 semi-finalist

 

Logansport had 2 placers from the same school. They were a category 3.  

 

IF is the biggest 2 letter word in the dictionary. 

Hobart was on the cuff of making it as an autobid. Our HWT only scored sectional points, and wrestled at the semi-state. Our 220 Scored only regional points and wrestled at the semi- State. IF they would have won 1st round of SS, that would have boosted our score by 29 points I believe. (Putting us in 3rd)

 

@malignedI know this is a ton of work, but I just wanted to say thank you. I believe we are good enough to be there next year. 2 Returning State medalist, 5 returning semi-state qualifiers, and some MS wrestlers that will make an immediate impact. 2 of which are ranked #4 & #22 on the MS Rankings on Indianamat.

 

While we are a category 3 regional we are still playing from behind as well. McCutcheon returns 12 starters, 5 semistate qualifiers who all made the ticket round, and 2 state place winners. We had an injury at sectionals where a kid won first round over an eventual semistate qualifier, we beat that kid 2x this season, but took 6th because of the injury. We missed out on an autobid by 4 points and that would have given us 9 more points and we would have qualified without that injury. 

[Wrestling Scholar]

20 hours ago, brickfor6 said:

Stinks that the Hobart Regional was Category 2 this year... 

Hobart Regional: 9 qualifiers, 6 placers, 3 semi-finalist

 

Logansport had 2 placers from the same school. They were a category 3.  

 

IF is the biggest 2 letter word in the dictionary. 

Hobart was on the cuff of making it as an autobid. Our HWT only scored sectional points, and wrestled at the semi-state. Our 220 Scored only regional points and wrestled at the semi- State. IF they would have won 1st round of SS, that would have boosted our score by 29 points I believe. (Putting us in 3rd)

 

@malignedI know this is a ton of work, but I just wanted to say thank you. I believe we are good enough to be there next year. 2 Returning State medalist, 5 returning semi-state qualifiers, and some MS wrestlers that will make an immediate impact. 2 of which are ranked #4 & #22 on the MS Rankings on Indianamat.

 

 I love all this regional toughness talk.   Its like the good old days.  With that said, Hobart vs McCutcheon would be a good duel to settle this on the mat next year.

[XCard]

I always know what time of the year it is when I start to see the word "crowdedness" thrown around. 

[Wrestling Bill Walton]

6 minutes ago, XCard said:

I always know what time of the year it is when I start to see the word "crowdedness" thrown around. 

You are right.  "Crowdedness"  used to be associated  with the Merrillville semi-state.  Now its Maligned sectional and regional rankings.

[brickfor6]

1 hour ago, CoachM said:

While we are a category 3 regional we are still playing from behind as well. McCutcheon returns 12 starters, 5 semistate qualifiers who all made the ticket round, and 2 state place winners. We had an injury at sectionals where a kid won first round over an eventual semistate qualifier, we beat that kid 2x this season, but took 6th because of the injury. We missed out on an autobid by 4 points and that would have given us 9 more points and we would have qualified without that injury. 

Never said that McCutchen wasn't doing something well. I was just stating how the Hobart Regional is a category 2 and had 9 qualifiers at 9 different weights. That is something the Logansport regional does not have, but are ranked higher because there are more teams that feed into the Regional. Due to "Crowdedness" the Logansport Reg is in a higher category, not because of Talent.

 

Not to mention, Portage is in our sectional/regional and they didn't have a qualifier for the first time in a long time. 

 

I am being stubborn, I do not think that the HWT we beat first round of Regionals should have scored more team state points than the Hobart HWT. Our sectional, was deep at HWT. Top 4 at our sectional; 2 ranked in the state, 2 in the semi-state. 3 of which made it to semi-state. 1 placed 5th at state.

 

51 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

 I love all this regional toughness talk.   Its like the good old days.  With that said, Hobart vs McCutcheon would be a good duel to settle this on the mat next year.

OH @Wrestling Scholar how I've missed our chats!! They can come to the Hobart Super Dual.... I wouldn't mind. McCutchen has some good dudes, and good coaches.

[CoachM]

40 minutes ago, brickfor6 said:

Never said that McCutchen wasn't doing something well. I was just stating how the Hobart Regional is a category 2 and had 9 qualifiers at 9 different weights. That is something the Logansport regional does not have, but are ranked higher because there are more teams that feed into the Regional. Due to "Crowdedness" the Logansport Reg is in a higher category, not because of Talent.

 

Not to mention, Portage is in our sectional/regional and they didn't have a qualifier for the first time in a long time. 

 

I am being stubborn, I do not think that the HWT we beat first round of Regionals should have scored more team state points than the Hobart HWT. Our sectional, was deep at HWT. Top 4 at our sectional; 2 ranked in the state, 2 in the semi-state. 3 of which made it to semi-state. 1 placed 5th at state.

 

OH @Wrestling Scholar how I've missed our chats!! They can come to the Hobart Super Dual.... I wouldn't mind. McCutchen has some good dudes, and good coaches.

What is the day of the tournament? We would love to be able to wrestle an established program like Hobart in a dual. We both go to the Harvest but its hard to gage at such an early date in a bracketed tournament format. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by CoachM

[brickfor6]

1 minute ago, CoachM said:

What is the day of the tournament? 

I believe the date next year is December 16th. Right before the vote in.

[CoachM]

2 minutes ago, brickfor6 said:

I believe the date next year is December 16th. Right before the vote in.

Bummer, we host a tournament that date. Maybe we can work on a different date, we would entertain a week night dual if necessary

[brickfor6]

38 minutes ago, CoachM said:

Bummer, we host a tournament that date. Maybe we can work on a different date, we would entertain a week night dual if necessary

Let me talk to Coach Cook and see what we can do!

[maligned]

20 hours ago, brickfor6 said:

Now crowdedness, I understand that there is more teams there, but the level of competition is different. 

For example: Hobart Regional: 113-Placer 126- Qualifier 132- Placer 138-Qualifier 152- Placer 160- Qualifier 170-Placer 182- Placer 285- Placer. 9 different weight classes had a competitor at state from the Hobart Regional.

Yeah, this idea of a crowded tournament site is especially tricky to grasp when one site clearly has more high-end talent than another..

 

In the KV example, if every guy in your lineup had to face only KV's lineup to advance guys to the next round of a tournament, you'd much rather face them than Portage, even though Portage famously didn't have a state qualifier and KV has a champ. The champ doesn't mean much when you've got 14 advancement slots at stake.

 

The same goes for sectionals and regionals when 56 advancement slots are at stake. For categories, we're not asking if one site has 6 state qualifiers compared to another's 2. We're asking how hard it is to claim one of those 56 slots and move on to regional or semi-state.

[brickfor6]

44 minutes ago, maligned said:

Yeah, this idea of a crowded tournament site is especially tricky to grasp when one site clearly has more high-end talent than another..

 

In the KV example, if every guy in your lineup had to face only KV's lineup to advance guys to the next round of a tournament, you'd much rather face them than Portage, even though Portage famously didn't have a state qualifier and KV has a champ. The champ doesn't mean much when you've got 14 advancement slots at stake.

 

The same goes for sectionals and regionals when 56 advancement slots are at stake. For categories, we're not asking if one site has 6 state qualifiers compared to another's 2. We're asking how hard it is to claim one of those 56 slots and move on to regional or semi-state.

I get the concept...Doesn't mean I have to like it haha

It burned us a little this year, but honestly we just have to win more. I believe we can be good enough to earn a vote in spot.

 

Now, how do you feel about the HWT situation that was brought up?

[CoachM]

Any chance Snyder gives up their auto bid now that their only state qualifiers no longer attend that school? Without those two they aren’t even in the conversation for a bid. Three open spots would make the first few weeks of the season very interesting. McCutcheon and Hobart should wrestle at the Tom Cameron this year. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by CoachM

[TripleB]

Floyd Central, who was next in line, added Hunter May. They should 100% be in now!

 

[Y2CJ41]

1 hour ago, TripleB said:

Floyd Central, who was next in line, added Hunter May. They should 100% be in now!

 

This only works if you come onto Gorilla Radio and go on a rant.

[TripleB]

21 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

This only works if you come onto Gorilla Radio and go on a rant.

Done...

 

#MouthOfTheSouth

#WeWantTheHighlanders

#FearSisson

[CoachM]

23 hours ago, TripleB said:

Floyd Central, who was next in line, added Hunter May. They should 100% be in now!

 

Should they replace Ft. Wayne Snider? 

[TripleB]

If you're asking me personally, No. If I'm a coach and my team earns a right to compete at team state No way am I backing out, I don't care if half my team is sick and we get shutout. Making team state can be a huge booster for a program.

 

But my alter ego - TripleB says -------- Let Floyd In!!!!

 

@bsisson will jump rope all over the competition brother!!!!

[CoachM]

I've always preferred alter ego TripleB anyway

[AJ]

New Haven backed out last year after multiple injuries to their team.

[brickfor6]

Well if you read the thread you know my stance this year. Looking forward to the Hobart vs McCutcheon dual. We also just added Rensselaer. We dual Chesterton, Valpo, Merrillville, Lowell, and Lake Central. All before the vote in...

[brickfor6]

On 9/16/2023 at 5:11 PM, CoachM said:

Any chance Snyder gives up their auto bid now that their only state qualifiers no longer attend that school? Without those two they aren’t even in the conversation for a bid. Three open spots would make the first few weeks of the season very interesting. McCutcheon and Hobart should wrestle at the Tom Cameron this year. 

Any updates on this? Also seeing 4 teams ranked in the top 10 that are not in team state yet. Floyd, Greenfield central, New Pal, Hobart. 

Unranked teams that are already in: Snider and Dekalb. 

[Coach Tonte]

I would think Franklin sealed the deal with common opponent victory over Cathedral. Greenfield and Floyd Central both lost to Cathedral. Franklin beat Cathedral. As far back as I can remember  common opponents is a number one criteria. And to put icing on the top also beat number three Ranked returning state champs Mishawaka. 
 

On a side note Franklin lost to Perry and Columbus East in tough hard fought matches giving up only two falls total in both duals. Columbus East beat Greenfield and Carmel scoring as many points in both of those duals as  they did against Franklin. 
 

All teams seem to be great competition. What a deep class 3A has this year. You could go about 14 deep and still have some very good comp. 
 

Just one coaches insight. But I hope common opponent is still the major factor as well as strength of schedule. 
 

We have suffered points the last few years due to the incredible task of trying to slide thru the Mooresville regional with young athletes. 
 

Good luck to all the rest of season.  We hope we have the opportunity to showcase our mix of upperclassmen and alot of youth.