Wrestling Bill Walton

Well you do make some good points.

This topic is also as fun as watching my best friends, the "Grateful Dead" while smoking some "Blue Dream". I love it as much as NBA Groupie girls, while sharing some edible "Gelato'. So like l always say: " You cant win championships by being normal, by just being average". So "wrestling bill Walton, who loves wrestling, but was too tall: dictates, salutes and exhortingly publishes his vote to the "poster with the moster", the :King of social media", the "meme-master" , the royal humongus of Indianamat. The anti-average, most unnormal dude on in the Gorilla kingdom, get's Wrestling Bill Walton's heavily weighted hyper influenced vote. The envelope says "Team Garcia". Note this vote wasnt influenced by one iota from me attending multiple post concert "Grateful Dead" parties, with my bestie and Team Garcia's great uncle Jerry Garcia, the greatest musician of all time. I got some stories for you dudes, like the time I took Magic Johnson to the Hollywood Bowl. But i digress.

Thats a good point. The Ohio wrestling finals are always occur during the weekend of the Big 10 basketball tournament. And if Ohio State or Columbus hosted the Big 10 baskeball, they would have it at Nationwide arena, not the Schott. Which also brings a good point, you cant get a hotel that weekend in Columbus anyway. Because Columbus is crazy heck as the wrestling state tournament always coincides with the Arnold Classic. If you want to see good wrestling, and also see gigantic muscular heads and bodybuilding girls with biceps bigger thicker than your legs, then hit Columbus. Me and my buddy Arnold always hang out that weekend and smoke of few fat ones.

1. Its clear Vanover lost the leg and with Mills having a bodylock shows loss of control. And subsequently for a couple seconds he doesn't have the leg thus your reaction time argument is null. 2. You see a ref not award an escape in similar situations as mentioned by Reformed Poster, because the top wrestler maintains control of the leg. Clearly didnt happen hear. 3. The ref even thought it was an escape and clearly awarded it. See pic or video. In the audio, the ref argues the ending situation was not a takedown. Thus he considered the situation to be a neutral position with escape awarded. 4. Part of the controversy was this a reversal or not. Any good ref will give this an escape. The reversal is dicey as Mills met control criteria with Merkel at buzzer but not reacton time for Vanover to react makes that a tough call. 5. The real controversy is the ref gave escape. Then EMD table help saw the escape sign and chose not to put it up, who subsequesently cheered they didnt have to score point because the ref got confused. This was after the table worker called the refs call ***potty mouth***.

You can always count on beating forfeit and bye.

You are right. "Crowdedness" used to be associated with the Merrillville semi-state. Now its Maligned sectional and regional rankings.

This situation in the Vanover match brings up a good question to the IHSAA. Should the IHSAA pay its table workers at big events instead of relying on local homer volunteers? Its apparent that we just found a new way how table help can affect a match as it did in this case. Again if you havent followed, the two EMD knuckleheads working the table started cheering on the Flowreslting sttream after they convinced each other the ref didnt put up an escape. With the ref confused, its apparent how their monologue had a big affect on the match. Also these dudes were heard on the Flocast calling the refs calls ***potty mouth*** when it went against EMD. Dudes were also yelling and screaming when the calls got overturned in EMD favor. Maybe the IHSAA should stop pocketing all the money and pay a little to some workers to create a more unbiased enviroment.

The OV coaches argued the correct point. They had a right to ask why the awarded escape was taken away. The ref got confused to what position they were in and forgot he awarded an escape. He just discounted the OV coaches request and walked away. The asst referee could have helped her also, but he let the referee sink. EMD got out of town right away. You could go to the head referee, but you cant look at video. It looked liked a guy came in front of the table in street clothes, was he the ref admininstrator? He saw it too and could of helped get the score right. The thing that bothered me was how fast the ref changed his decision from coach Schaefer's argument. It was immediately then he just blew off the OV coaches.

good point. Lets think outside the box (of Indiana Borders)

Yea lets get creative, How about the YUM center in Louisville. Great facility, and i bet we could draw in a few KY fans.

Audio is pretty good, the ref clearly indicates an escape in his signal. The table is looking for clarification, and he goes back to table to indicate no takedown. Which clearly designates an escape was earned. The table help obviously was from EMD complaining and cussing on the call, then they cheered when Vanover won. You can see one table guy talk the other guy out of the escape. Then the ref comes to the table confused about no points scored, probably thinking he had already called an escape. EMD should give an assist to these guys for the win.

Just making my call from what i saw on the video. Video doesn't lie. Ref minimally should have hit him for misconduct. Sorry to get your panties in a ruffle. With all due respect, I didnt mean to offend your sensitivities.

Since ive know for my play by play: Here's my call. Vanover riding Mills with 6 seconds left and 2 to 1 lead. Mills stands up, cuts in with left hand and step gets brief separation. Could have been an escape. Millls attacks immediately, Vanover falls to knees with hands on mat meeting loss of control. Mills facing Vanover has body lock around waist, then with 3 seconds. Mills spins to right. With 2 secs, he inserts left leg into Merkel position, with left arm behind armpit. Simultaneously at buzzer, Mills right arm inserted behind right armpit meeting technical definition of control for rev or takedown. Ref thows up two reversal as at same time EMD coach Schaefer runs to the table yelling. Ref walks to table with EMD coach Schaefer while admantly complaining. After brief 2 second talk, official talks to asst official. Asst official says one sentence, then head ref indicates no control sign effectively cancelling reversal. Then ref heads to center of mat, raises left hand with 1 red escape, and realizes wrong wrestler and corrects to one green point escape to Vanover. Table never records the point. Coach Shchaefer yells something in disagreement from corner. Scoreboard still says 3-2 at that point, immediately score changes to to 2-1. Asst ref says something to table and indicates the no control ref symbol. Kids look like they're ready to wrestle OT. Ref goes to Owen Valley corner and explains call. Score shows 2-1. Ref locks back to circle, kids take leg bands off. Then ref walks to table, spends 5 seconds at table. Camera is blocked but looks like he does call of mechanic. Schaeffer approaches table arguing, and ref waives hand to tell him to back off. Ref walks back to circle and raises Vanovers hand. Owen Valley coaches go to table with ref, and calmly but adamantly argue. You could see the head coach has the index finger pointing indicating he wants the one point escape. Ref disregards argument and walks away. End of match.

Dammit, I thought i could get away with stealing Joe's idea without him noticing. Never going to beat Joe.

I got a good relationship with Jim Irsay, Ill go down and see if he could let the wrestling community borrow Lucas Oil for those two days. Plenty of seating. I think he likes wrestling. Ill just give him a big compliment on his Rock and Roll collection and were in.

So watched the video on Flo. The reversal is a tough judgement call as he secures Merkel at the buzzer. 1 The ref melted like butter when EMD coach went to the table, who was at table one second after buzzer. 2. After he cancelled his 2 point reversal, the ref put up a point escape. Which is obviously the correct call as referenced by HWTDAD pic where it shows loss of control. See pic below where after the reversal was cancelled, the ref clearly gives the one point escape signal. Looks like it just gets ignored. Its not clear, but in the confusion he just gave up on that very relevant one point escape. 3. EMD coach was aggressive and screaming and yelling and intimidated the ref. Owen Valley coaches were cool and calm showing sportsmanship under an emotional situation. Obviously they didnt get rewarded for that. EMD coach got awarded.

I think this is where I disagree with your point is that you have the wrestler has to have separation. Lets even forget about the temp separation mentioned which clearly would have been an escape. If you look in the picture, Mills starts in the defensive position and puts himself in an advantage situation and definitely establishes loss of control by Vanover. Note that Vanover has no contact or grasp of Mills legs which is clear loss of seperation. Per the rulebook, an escape is loss of control by offensive wrestler with both wrestlers having at least two supporting points in bounds. The ref correctly didnt make the escape call at that point to let action continue to see if a reversal occurs. But the escape should be earned. So what probably happened Mills tries to get around for the reversal, and Mills grabs his leg to defend. He almost gets the reversal at the buzzer, then the ref doesnt give credit of escape for the lost control because he still has his leg. The ref should have called the escape if he felt a mills didnt gain control in regulation no matter if Vanover had a leg or not. But with that said, Ive seen officials make this mistake before and this is a good learning moment. But its a sad time for a mistake like that to cost a kid a shot at state.

Coach Brobst, you bring up some good points on stalling and consistency. I like you're data perspective of tracking stalling calls. It brings up a novel idea. What if we had a statistic based on stalling calls per match. Maybe Track wrestling could add this statistic, then we could track this data by tournament, region, season and even by official. Maybe we could evaluate officials better and get more consistency in the most inconsistent call in Inidiana wrestling. I know it would be difficult, but seems possible to me.

Stalling is always an enigma. In my years of officiating, I'm always surprised how some coaches react to stalling even when its a warning and no points are awarded. It drives some coaches nuts. And i agree its partially due to the inconsistency of refs calling it. I suppose the stalling calls equalize to the area of the state, based on the coaches reactions and consistency of officials and maybe emphasis put on in the associations meetings. Ive hesitated before on calling stalling, based on reactions of coaches. Its kind of like a strike zone in baseball.

College wrestling rates their officials based on an evaluator that travels to meets. I used to live and ref in Missouri, and they paid some experienced officials to go around and evaluate the officials. It could be done, but some one will have to find a way to fund the evaluators as there time wouldnt be free.

Clint, I agree in the spirit of the rule, this is not a good interpretation. But I respectfully disagree, that in a technical sense, its a correct interpretation of the IHSAA seeeding Critieria/rules by Faulkens and has precedence going back at least 6 years and is based on the (http://www.ihsaa.net/seedingmeetingtutorial/story.html). Its clearly expressed in seeding meeting tutorial. Note this issue has been discussed in multiple years on Indianamat, and and a robust discussion in 2017 on the controversial interpretation and i believe that was the year Robert Faulkens showed up at the Lafayette Jeff sectional to enforce his technical interpretation. From an application sense, most sectionals have historically ignored this rule albeit intentionally or sometimes due to ignorance of the criteria. Maybe you're right, if the criteria was not included in the winter bulletin, then that might supersede prior precedence. Did the WB include any seeding criteria/rules this year?

Robert Faulkens also showed up at the Lafayette Jeff sectional in 2016 and enforced the seeding meeting to the rule. It created a few weird seeds. But yes this rule has been in affect for years.

Ive never seen a guy named forfeit win a match, but I knew this guy named Stan Bye. He won all the time. I saw him win some matches after some guys saw his name on the bracket, they were so initimidated they never showed up for the match he just advanced to the next round.

IVe never seen better bomb bursting in midair type wrestling than the Logansport regional. Thats a show in a show. Its like the fireworks show after the Grateful Dead concert in the hollywood bowl. Theres a reason nobody wants to go through Logansport, and its not because the state mental hospital is there. Wrestling is almost as good as the Jay County regional. Just my humble opinion.

Kenny, There's multiple account users? That's the most disgusting thing i've heard on the history of Indianamat and OJ Simpsons twitter posts. That's as bad when I work with Charles Barkley, and he gets the double Nachos with Jalapenos in the first half, and then lets out silent deadly ones in the booth during the second half and I have to keep a straight face while im delivering my long irrlelavant incoherent rants on national TV (which everybody loves). That's as bad as going to a lousy grateful dead tribute band concert and some dude passes maui wowie and its really parsley and cilantro. Best wishes to those guys that think they're funny. This is Indianamat, not Seinfeld re-runs. Bill