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11 hours ago, blueandgold said:

I’m happy I haven’t seen it thus far, and I hope I don’t see this thread doesn’t break down into a Chad Red hate train. As Indiana wrestling fans, it’s always fun to see our own elite competitors face off, but sometimes people on this board or in the FloWrestling comments get a little carried away with their praise for Nick Lee that they bash CJ. I understand being passionate, especially the EMD crowd, but you have to remember that these are two phenomenal grapplers and Nick showed us tonight how much he’s improved in one year, hats off to him. Taking nothing away from him though, Chad Red is still Chad Red. He’s a big match guy and always gives us some big wins when it matters most. They’re both two-time All-Americans on the Division I level for a reason, and both are capable of winning the 141 lb class. Keep it classy and let’s continue to keep negativity away from these young men on either end.  

 

I think this is way overblown.  Ignore comments made when they were in HS, they aren't relevant now.  Maybe because of that or maybe just because people are too damned sensitive in today's world, but  just because someone criticizes either wrestler doesn't mean they are hating on them.  Sometimes, the truth is just the truth.  

 

Last year I, and others were accused of hating on Chad, which is utterly ridiculous.  I simply questioned what was going on with him, whether he had less motivation than in the past, injured, struggling to make weight, etc.  Guess what, it turns out I was right as Chad admitted to losing focus and desire last year. To say Chad, while he has a 7th and 8th Place finish at Nationals has performed below the expectations in college based on being on of Indiana's all-time best and one of the top wrestlers in the country coming out of HS is fair.  Does that mean it's hate?  Hell no.  Does it mean by saying that I think he's a bad person?  No  People get too damned caught up in criticism these days and assume you are against whatever you are critical of.  It's just stupid.  

Chad is, what Chad is and that is a damned good wrestler, wrestling DI in the toughest conference in the country. And someone that is still competitive among the best.  But that doesn't mean one that questions or critiques a performance doesn't like him or "hate" him.   It's okay to say what one thinks.  If someone makes a dumb comment, fine.  Deal with that comment.  Yeah, I've seen a couple that made me cringe a little. But lumping a comment or two into more just isn't fair or reality.   

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3 hours ago, SWINfan said:

 

I think this is way overblown.  Ignore comments made when they were in HS, they aren't relevant now.  Maybe because of that or maybe just because people are too damned sensitive in today's world, but  just because someone criticizes either wrestler doesn't mean they are hating on them.  Sometimes, the truth is just the truth.  

 

Last year I, and others were accused of hating on Chad, which is utterly ridiculous.  I simply questioned what was going on with him, whether he had less motivation than in the past, injured, struggling to make weight, etc.  Guess what, it turns out I was right as Chad admitted to losing focus and desire last year. To say Chad, while he has a 7th and 8th Place finish at Nationals has performed below the expectations in college based on being on of Indiana's all-time best and one of the top wrestlers in the country coming out of HS is fair.  Does that mean it's hate?  Hell no.  Does it mean by saying that I think he's a bad person?  No  People get too damned caught up in criticism these days and assume you are against whatever you are critical of.  It's just stupid.  

Chad is, what Chad is and that is a damned good wrestler, wrestling DI in the toughest conference in the country. And someone that is still competitive among the best.  But that doesn't mean one that questions or critiques a performance doesn't like him or "hate" him.   It's okay to say what one thinks.  If someone makes a dumb comment, fine.  Deal with that comment.  Yeah, I've seen a couple that made me cringe a little. But lumping a comment or two into more just isn't fair or reality.   


It’s not overblown at all. To say, “lumping a comment or two,” THAT isn’t fair or reality. Go on FloWrestling’s Instagram page or read back to the thread on their match last year. There were plenty of comments that were valid points for hate towards CJ because they were bitter about him winning in high school. It’s just ridiculous grown men find time to bash a kid who’s 100x the wrestler they are/were. All I’m saying is remain classy and everyone on here has done a great job of that so far. 

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7 minutes ago, blueandgold said:


It’s not overblown at all. To say, “lumping a comment or two,” THAT isn’t fair or reality. Go on FloWrestling’s Instagram page or read back to the thread on their match last year. There were plenty of comments that were valid points for hate towards CJ because they were bitter about him winning in high school. It’s just ridiculous grown men find time to bash a kid who’s 100x the wrestler they are/were. All I’m saying is remain classy and everyone on here has done a great job of that so far. 

I could care less what comments are on Flo or Instagram.  I am very aware of the comments from their match last year.  There were a couple of comments I didn't care for.  But the "hate" as you describe it is way overblown.  Fair criticism is not hating on a person.  That's reality.

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3 minutes ago, blueandgold said:


It’s not overblown at all. To say, “lumping a comment or two,” THAT isn’t fair or reality. Go on FloWrestling’s Instagram page or read back to the thread on their match last year. There were plenty of comments that were valid points for hate towards CJ because they were bitter about him winning in high school. It’s just ridiculous grown men find time to bash a kid who’s 100x the wrestler they are/were. All I’m saying is remain classy and everyone on here has done a great job of that so far. 

 

I'm not really concerned about what was said on FloWrestling's Instagram page. This is an Indiana wrestling forum & for the most part everyone here supports all Indiana wrestlers.

 

I took part in the discussion of Red & Lee last year & I don't recall reading any Red hate comments. There was some criticism but I did not feel it was 'hate'. I would like for you to copy & paste the comments from last years discussion that you feel was 'Red Hate'.

 

I get the feeling it is a case of the 'he said - she heard' phenomenon.

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12 minutes ago, blueandgold said:


It’s not overblown at all. To say, “lumping a comment or two,” THAT isn’t fair or reality. Go on FloWrestling’s Instagram page or read back to the thread on their match last year. There were plenty of comments that were valid points for hate towards CJ because they were bitter about him winning in high school. It’s just ridiculous grown men find time to bash a kid who’s 100x the wrestler they are/were. All I’m saying is remain classy and everyone on here has done a great job of that so far. 


Y’all don’t turn this is into the Mendez Effect thread. 😂

 

No one was attacking Red on this thread- you went out of your way to say “stay classy.” Also, this isn’t the Flo instagram it is Indianamat (apples to oranges). Lastly, it’s always wise to avoid comments on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter- quite literally proven to be better for mental health. 
 

Two amazing wrestlers that both should hopefully AA again this year. Hopefully both Red and Lee finish in the top 5 this season - and one of them wins the national title since next year when Yianni is back the task becomes increasingly difficult. 

Edited by SunDevils
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16 hours ago, MattM said:

Glad I stayed in the dark until I had a chance to watch the match.  Lee’s top game is getting pretty solid.  If he can avoid scramble situations of the takedown he is a huge national title threat.  
 

Reds didn’t get anything off tonight, which is unfortunate.  But he seems to always be a gamer come national tournament time.  Hopefully that continues to be the case.  

 

My guess is Red will have learned something from last night and will adjust his approach accordingly.

 

If you go back to the state final Red was able to ride Lee for the entire final period. And Lee was not that good on top. Lee has improved both of those two positions significantly. Last night Red gave up that final takedown a little too easy which I attribute to be exhausted from being on bottom so long. 

 

My second observation comes from a video posted on Flo pre-match. In it Mike Mal said he thought the match would come down to a single position. When Lee shoots the single does Red get to the corner for the re-attack? He has done that several times in the past to Lee, as he is the better scrambler. Last night Lee's finishes were so clean Red never got the chance to turn them into scramble situations. 

 

If they meet again this year at Big 10s or NCAAs it seems to me that Red will have learned from and adapted to what happened last night. I believe he will attack more quickly to avoid being on bottom. He is lightening quick and we have seen him do it to any number of wrestlers even if it hasn't been his preferred plan against Lee up to now.

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Lee looks to have taken his game to the next level.  To me Red has stayed the same.  I don't know if it's coaching, physical/mental growing, desire, etc.....but Lee looks a lot better at this point.

 

Either way, it was so cool to see those guys wrestle again.  I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:48 AM, wrestlenewbie said:

 

My guess is Red will have learned something from last night and will adjust his approach accordingly.

 

If you go back to the state final Red was able to ride Lee for the entire final period. And Lee was not that good on top. Lee has improved both of those two positions significantly. Last night Red gave up that final takedown a little too easy which I attribute to be exhausted from being on bottom so long. 

 

My second observation comes from a video posted on Flo pre-match. In it Mike Mal said he thought the match would come down to a single position. When Lee shoots the single does Red get to the corner for the re-attack? He has done that several times in the past to Lee, as he is the better scrambler. Last night Lee's finishes were so clean Red never got the chance to turn them into scramble situations. 

 

If they meet again this year at Big 10s or NCAAs it seems to me that Red will have learned from and adapted to what happened last night. I believe he will attack more quickly to avoid being on bottom. He is lightening quick and we have seen him do it to any number of wrestlers even if it hasn't been his preferred plan against Lee up to now.

I watched this week's match and the state championship back to back.I may be biased but I think Lee was injured at the state championships. Seeing him this week vs then there's just no comparison Lee just seemed hurt to me in the finals match especially when watching him in the third period. I also think Red will turn it on for the post season, he'd take the win no doubt but I think he was doing his homework on this match, if they meet again with advancement or a championship on the line I think we see a different Red.

Edited by Ahawkeye
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I just watched their HS match again as well. I can't say that I see any sign of injury that Lee is suffering from but if I recall correctly, didn't he miss most of that year & only began wrestling just before the State Tournament began? So maybe he was not at his peak from a conditioning stand point.

 

Regardless, there is a noticeable difference between their HS match & the match Friday night. In the HS match it appears that Nick was the better wrestler on their feet. He got the first takedown & came close 2 other times. The only time Chad got to Lee's legs Nick was able to fend it off pretty well. But Chad was clearly the better wrestler on the mat back then. Nick could not ride him. Red got away from Lee easily both after the takedown & to begin the 2nd period. And Lee struggled to get away from Red, both in the second period & in the 3rd. But Friday night it was obvious that Nick is now better on their feet & on the mat.

 

CJ may be able to close the gap in future matches, but from what I saw Friday night Lee is simply the better wrestler now.

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1 minute ago, SIACfan said:

I just watched their HS match again as well. I can't say that I see any sign of injury that Lee is suffering from but if I recall correctly, didn't he miss most of that year & only began wrestling just before the State Tournament began? So maybe he was not at his peak from a conditioning stand point.

 

Regardless, there is a noticeable difference between their HS match & the match Friday night. In the HS match it appears that Nick was the better wrestler on their feet. He got the first takedown & came close 2 other times. The only time Chad got to Lee's legs Nick was able to fend it off pretty well. But Chad was clearly the better wrestler on the mat back then. Nick could not ride him. Red got away from Lee easily both after the takedown & to begin the 2nd period. And Lee struggled to get away from Red, both in the second period & in the 3rd. But Friday night it was obvious that Nick is now better on their feet & on the mat.

 

CJ may be able to close the gap in future matches, but from what I saw Friday night Lee is simply the better wrestler now.

 

Nick wrestled 3 matches at Team State that year and entered the Sectional 3-0.  

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14 minutes ago, doctorWrestling said:

Nick Lee is on a recent ( last week ) "Bashamania" podcast if you are interested in hearing an interview.  I always think its fun to hear more about great wrestlers.

 

It was a great interview.  Link has been posted on the college board, where we discuss......   college wrestling  :)

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