decbell1 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 No offense to the team/coach/wrestler involved, but I mean on a more general level, why does this happen at a lot of Saturday tournaments? Is it that detrimental to get beaten? 195 - Joe Caprino (Team A) over Casey Brock (Bloomington North) Fall 1:25 195 - Joe Caprino (Team A) over Unknown (Unattached) Forf 195 - Joe Caprino (Team A) over Cameron Corbin (Columbus North) Fall 2:00 195 - Joe Caprino (Team A) over Ben Horsman (Center Grove) Dec 9-4 195 - Dakota Thacker (Bloomington South) over Unknown (Unattached) Forf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Brown Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 No offense to the team/coach/wrestler involved, but I mean on a more general level, why does this happen at a lot of Saturday tournaments? Is it that detrimental to get beaten? 195 - Justin Stone (Lawrence Central) over Casey Brock (Bloomington North) Fall 1:25 195 - Justin Stone (Lawrence Central) over Unknown (Unattached) Forf 195 - Justin Stone (Lawrence Central) over Cameron Corbin (Columbus North) Fall 2:00 195 - Justin Stone (Lawrence Central) over Ben Horsman (Center Grove) Dec 9-4 195 - Dakota Thacker (Bloomington South) over Unknown (Unattached) Forf That is a very good question. Only speaking for my team will love wrestling the "competition" it is a good measuring stick to see where we are and pays off late in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samaj Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I see it happening more and more. If the other team has a hammer its becoming very common to see a coach not send his wrestler out to get beaten. Another side effect to this that is bordering on unethical is that these same coaches will seed the wrestlers at the sectional seeding meeting and they will have 3-4 less losses than they should have had if the coaches didn't "protect" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navy80 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I don't get it either....we had our best wrestler who was having a bad day looking forward to wrestling a good wrestler from another team. When the time came, the kid wasnt feeling well. but wrestling every single match the rest of the day. Funny thing is that kid would have came close to or probably would have beaten our kid... Why shy away from tough competition?? so you can go into conference or sectionals with a goose egg or one or two losses? I'd rather have several qaulity losses than not wrestling anyone all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I drew tons of mythical forfeits Injury defaults, and that was 15 years ago. My Sr year at sectionals I spent 6 seconds on the mat. 6 second quater final pin, Inj default in semis, inj default in finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvansvilleSpectator Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 This happened at the Turkey Classic in Mount Vernon against Evansville Central. Mount Vernon had wrestled 3 different kids at 152 and a kid at 160 both days. Then forfeited to Kelley and Kemper. Some people I spoke to thought this was to keep the momentum MV had created. In that case it would be a strategical move. On the other side of things, it is beneficial to keep your guys healthy. Some of the top guys are very physical and the chances of injury are much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 This happened at the Turkey Classic in Mount Vernon against Evansville Central. Mount Vernon had wrestled 3 different kids at 152 and a kid at 160 both days. Then forfeited to Kelley and Kemper. Some people I spoke to thought this was to keep the momentum MV had created. In that case it would be a strategical move. On the other side of things, it is beneficial to keep your guys healthy. Some of the top guys are very physical and the chances of injury are much higher. In this particular case, I would offer that the 160 wrestler is in his first year of wrestling and there wasn't much to be gained by a match with Kemper who is an elite wrestler. Nothing to be gained by either athlete in that match, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpt189 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I don't get it either....we had our best wrestler who was having a bad day looking forward to wrestling a good wrestler from another team. When the time came, the kid wasnt feeling well. but wrestling every single match the rest of the day. Funny thing is that kid would have came close to or probably would have beaten our kid... Why shy away from tough competition?? so you can go into conference or sectionals with a goose egg or one or two losses? I'd rather have several qaulity losses than not wrestling anyone all year. In response to this, since my kid is the one referenced sitting out........ My wrestlers, especially this particular one, shy away from no one. Yes, he wasn't feeling well that day, I wont go into details, but he was legitimately ill. I, along with the people involved, would have loved to watch our two kids wrestle. I always want my wrestlers to face the best kids. 4 years ago, I opted to take my kids to the Cathedral duals to wrestle Cathedral, Warren Central, and Avon. Every year, we go up there, and get pounded (except this year because we couldn't go due to bad weather). Of the four years we have gone there, I have yet to have a kid go undefeated there. I had a kid last year decide to bump up a weight class to wrestle Vinny Corsaro because he wanted the challenge and opportunity to face the best competition he could. That kid is the same kid thought to avoid someone a few weeks ago. I cant speak for every team, but when a wrestler of mine sits out, it isn't to avoid anyone. I am not meaning to attack anyone in this post, Just felt that when something like this is brought up, I wanted to speak my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 In response to this, since my kid is the one referenced sitting out........ My wrestlers, especially this particular one, shy away from no one. Yes, he wasn't feeling well that day, I wont go into details, but he was legitimately ill. I, along with the people involved, would have loved to watch our two kids wrestle. I always want my wrestlers to face the best kids. 4 years ago, I opted to take my kids to the Cathedral duals to wrestle Cathedral, Warren Central, and Avon. Every year, we go up there, and get pounded (except this year because we couldn't go due to bad weather). Of the four years we have gone there, I have yet to have a kid go undefeated there. I had a kid last year decide to bump up a weight class to wrestle Vinny Corsaro because he wanted the challenge and opportunity to face the best competition he could. That kid is the same kid thought to avoid someone a few weeks ago. I cant speak for every team, but when a wrestler of mine sits out, it isn't to avoid anyone. I am not meaning to attack anyone in this post, Just felt that when something like this is brought up, I wanted to speak my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosgrove Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 well flue has been going around and some people get hurt so not everyone has people to fill in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 In response to this, since my kid is the one referenced sitting out........ My wrestlers, especially this particular one, shy away from no one. Yes, he wasn't feeling well that day, I wont go into details, but he was legitimately ill. I, along with the people involved, would have loved to watch our two kids wrestle. I always want my wrestlers to face the best kids. 4 years ago, I opted to take my kids to the Cathedral duals to wrestle Cathedral, Warren Central, and Avon. Every year, we go up there, and get pounded (except this year because we couldn't go due to bad weather). Of the four years we have gone there, I have yet to have a kid go undefeated there. I had a kid last year decide to bump up a weight class to wrestle Vinny Corsaro because he wanted the challenge and opportunity to face the best competition he could. That kid is the same kid thought to avoid someone a few weeks ago. I cant speak for every team, but when a wrestler of mine sits out, it isn't to avoid anyone. I am not meaning to attack anyone in this post, Just felt that when something like this is brought up, I wanted to speak my part. I wasn't meaning to single the kid out, I just wanted to start a discussion as to why some weights get forfeited in some of those situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granby rollin Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 In my opinion there is no "protection." You go out every match reguardless of the competition and you wrestle with everything you've got. Injuries happen. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachi123 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Play chess with your eyes closed!! Only certain people will agree, but there no Team event that an individual match has to happen. There is tons of strategy behind your so called "dodging"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 It's the same reason we don't have the IHSAA Team State anymore, when you have teams that don't compete or make it a farce by sending a JV team. It seems to be more common these days, the mindset is......if I can't win, then I don't want to even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Caller Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Bumping up after better competition i feel is justified, I used to ask my coaches to let me wrestle better kids all the time. Some times Id win and sometimes Id lose but I wanted to wrestle the best and not get a 10 second pin on a pudd. But when kids sit out or dodge someone for the fear of a loss is just degrading to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANMAN Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Shocked to see a certain asst coach agree that " dodging " is a strategy. Luckily " dodging " strategy doesn't work come Tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIaGrad Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I think a coach should have the freedom of using discretion before putting an inexperienced wrestler in with a wrestler that is obviously out of his league. It shouldn't happen in the larger schools but in the smaller schools, there may not be the choice that a coach would like and an unskilled and/or inexperienced athlete may have to step up before they are ready. This may be fine for most of their competition, but occasionally they may be up against a stud that could put them in danger. We all have seen matches that shouldn't have happened. I also think it is up to the coach of the stud to foster an atmosphere in which they wrestle their best without trying to injure their opponent just because they can. If a coach is frustrated that they are seeing a lot of forfeits, I would reflect on whether they are promoting good hard wrestling or an atmosphere in which injury is likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 All this talk of protecting them from injury is hogwash. I say there is a less likely chance of the inexperienced wrestler getting hurt when he wrestles a "stud" wrestler than when two inexperienced wrestlers go at it. Not to mention he may actually improve by wrestling the "stud" and in the very least he will know what level he needs to get to if he himself wants to be a "stud." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANMAN Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 All this talk of protecting them from injury is hogwash. I say there is a less likely chance of the inexperienced wrestler getting hurt when he wrestles a "stud" wrestler than when two inexperienced wrestlers go at it. Not to mention he may actually improve by wrestling the "stud" and in the very least he will know what level he needs to get to if he himself wants to be a "stud." Exactly, " dodging " is done to protect records for future seeding ( most of the time ). I understand moving around kids for what would be a close dual, in hopes of winning it is all good. But, when a dual is out of reach one way or another, why still avoid a good matchup that would only benefit the wrestlers. OH well, when the tough matchups happen later, an kids don't have the past matches to learn an grow from, guess what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachi123 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Say what ever u want to think fan man, I have tough skin and can take or deal whatever. No matter what the score is i will never let anyone tell me what My wrestler needs. I'm with them mostly year round, I no what's best for them since I coach them. So if I decide not to have my athlete wrestle your best stud on the last match of a blow out. Then I'm dodging. If I thought your stud was going to throw my guy around and he had a more important match next that effected the team score then I'm dodging. Call it what u want, but I no about my wrestlers needs. It's not my responsibility to care about what another teams kid needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Call it what u want, but I no about my wrestlers needs. It's not my responsibility to care about what another teams kid needs. That's the attitude that lost us the team state tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANMAN Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Call it what u want, but I no about my wrestlers needs. It's not my responsibility to care about what another teams kid needs. Apparently, some of your wrestlers need to avoid a loss. Heck, I've seen C'ville FFT when I think they actually had the kid who was the favorite, lol. I guess that's some darn good juice over there. Like I said, avoid them now, lose them later, Coaching 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmak Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Apparently, some of your wrestlers need to avoid a loss. Heck, I've seen C'ville FFT when I think they actually had the kid who was the favorite, lol. I guess that's some darn good juice over there. Like I said, avoid them now, lose them later, Coaching 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collegestatguy Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I remember when I was in High School, if the opposing team had someone better at a certain weight he would move us up a weight class in order to wrestle that person. I don't think it is right to not wrestle the better competition. IDK if just me, but I always liked to wrestle the better kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANMAN Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I remember when I was in High School, if the opposing team had someone better at a certain weight he would move us up a weight class in order to wrestle that person. I don't think it is right to not wrestle the better competition. IDK if just me, but I always liked to wrestle the better kids. I think all wrestlers think this way, it's the coaching tactics that dictate anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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