Team State qualification leaderboard 2023 (FINAL)

[Coach Brobst]

2 minutes ago, bomber_bob said:

So this is one thing that has always tripped me up....if I am in a category 5 Regional, and I lose to the Regional champ first round, I earn Semi-State Qualifier points?

 

Theoretically, if I finish 4th in my Sectional and lose to the champ in the 1st round at Regionals, I could score more points than the kid I lost to for 3rd place at Sectionals? Yet, at some other Regionals (Category 3 or lower), you could have a kid who places 4th in the Regional and actually qualify for the Semi-State also score less than the same kid who is in a Category 5 and placed 4th in his Sectional?

@malignedcan correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not how the scores are calculated, just how the alternate is determined for the IHSAA.

 

In the calculations, the "5th placer" is the highest placing non-qualifier. For instance, if a sectional champ is beaten first round in a Category 5 Regional, they would be awarded Semi-state points anyways. 

 

Where I'm not certain is if the Champs and Runner ups all win, which 3rd placer gets to be the "5th placer". I would assume the one from the Champ's Sectional, but not certain.

[Thor]

6 minutes ago, bomber_bob said:

So this is one thing that has always tripped me up....if I am in a category 5 Regional, and I lose to the Regional champ first round, I earn Semi-State Qualifier points?

 

Theoretically, if I finish 4th in my Sectional and lose to the champ in the 1st round at Regionals, I could score more points than the kid I lost to for 3rd place at Sectionals? Yet, at some other Regionals (Category 3 or lower), you could have a kid who places 4th in the Regional and actually qualify for the Semi-State also score less than the same kid who is in a Category 5 and placed 4th in his Sectional?

That's my understanding, but I wouldn't quote me. I'm just obsessively going over numbers and following their procedures. 

[Thor]

5 minutes ago, Coach Brobst said:

@malignedcan correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not how the scores are calculated, just how the alternate is determined for the IHSAA.

 

In the calculations, the "5th placer" is the highest placing non-qualifier. For instance, if a sectional champ is beaten first round in a Category 5 Regional, they would be awarded Semi-state points anyways. 

 

Where I'm not certain is if the Champs and Runner ups all win, which 3rd placer gets to be the "5th placer". I would assume the one from the Champ's Sectional, but not certain.

That's right, I should read all the pages. 

[Jcjcjc]

Ihsaa Alternate and team state regional 5th place are determined differently.

[maligned]

8 hours ago, artie_wrestler said:

A little confused on the 3A. 

 

Franklin Community is sitting pretty high with 6 Regional Qualifiers (all underclassmen). None advanced to Semi-State. 

 

However, Martinsville sends 8 to Regionals with 5 underclassmen. Then 4 to semi-state with 2 underclassmen. 

 

I believe the Mooresville sectional would have the "Crowdedness" factor. 31 of the 56 Semi-state Qualifiers come from the Mooresville sectional compared to the Avon sectional. 

 

Just a little confused. Not complaining at all. And thank you for all your work and all you do. 

 

Coming through the Mooresville sectional, Regional, and EV Semi is absolutely brutal. 

Yes, this is always how the 3A/4A leaderboards look until semi-state. It's essentially just a competition for who has the most underclassmen until this weekend--then the big points go up. Franklin, sadly for them, won't last in the spot they're at while the ones people mentioned as "outside looking in" will make huge jumps.

[maligned]

5 hours ago, bomber_bob said:

So this is one thing that has always tripped me up....if I am in a category 5 Regional, and I lose to the Regional champ first round, I earn Semi-State Qualifier points?

 

Theoretically, if I finish 4th in my Sectional and lose to the champ in the 1st round at Regionals, I could score more points than the kid I lost to for 3rd place at Sectionals? Yet, at some other Regionals (Category 3 or lower), you could have a kid who places 4th in the Regional and actually qualify for the Semi-State also score less than the same kid who is in a Category 5 and placed 4th in his Sectional?

Regional 5th place tiebreakers in order:

1. Sectional place

2. Sectional difficulty (Category)

3. Season Win%

4. Most season wins

5. Coin flip

[rhayes]

I read the info on an injured wrestler. It seems that if you had a freshman in your lineup all year and is injured the week before sectional, you do not get any relief for him? What I read said he had to be 10th or 11th grade. Is this correct? 

[bwoodjc89]

27 minutes ago, rhayes said:

I read the info on an injured wrestler. It seems that if you had a freshman in your lineup all year and is injured the week before sectional, you do not get any relief for him? What I read said he had to be 10th or 11th grade. Is this correct? 

If you are a team that is in consideration for a vote in this is the kind of thing you would mention in your bid package to the committee.

[maligned]

1 hour ago, rhayes said:

I read the info on an injured wrestler. It seems that if you had a freshman in your lineup all year and is injured the week before sectional, you do not get any relief for him? What I read said he had to be 10th or 11th grade. Is this correct? 

Yes, this is true. We assign the previous season's result to kids that are coming back next year. That means it's only 10th and 11th graders who have a previous season and an upcoming season.

 

Why not freshmen?

We have no way to project a freshman's exact finish fairly. As someone else said, top incoming or injured freshmen are factored significantly during the voting process.

 

Why not seniors?

The "added" injury points are actually "replacing" your team's estimated JV value--which is 75% of your team's average without the injured kid included.

For top teams genuinely in contention, because seniors' points are reduced significantly compared to underclassmen, a senior's earned points from the previous season is rarely enough to be better than the 75% of team average we're "replacing"

[Anthony Snyder]

@maligned I had a regional alternate get called to wrestle last week. He lost. This week I have a semistate alternate get the call to wrestle and now is in the bracket. Do we secure advancement points? Both are underclassmen.

[maligned]

12 minutes ago, Anthony Snyder said:

@maligned I had a regional alternate get called to wrestle last week. He lost. This week I have a semistate alternate get the call to wrestle and now is in the bracket. Do we secure advancement points? Both are underclassmen.

No, we don't add points unless he wins a match that moves him into the next scoring tier. Otherwise, we'd be awarding 5 kids those regional or semi-state points from your sectional or regional.

[#watchingithappen]

Do we have an official current score yet?

[maligned]

All scores are now verified through Regional and located in the first post of this thread.

 

Included in the posting for each team are Scores, Sectional forfeits, Wrestlers left in the tournament, and Points Available for that team at Semi-State.

Edited February 9, 2023 by maligned

[Y2CJ41]

1 hour ago, maligned said:

All scores are now verified through Regional and located in the first post of this thread.

 

Included in the posting for each team are Scores, Sectional forfeits, Wrestlers left in the tournament, and Points Available for that team at Semi-State.

Can you just attach the spreadsheet or a link to a google sheet for this? The picture is atrocious to look at.

[maligned]

1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Can you just attach the spreadsheet or a link to a google sheet for this? The picture is atrocious to look at.

Just be honest and say you want to play nerdy spreadsheet games with all the data. I got your back.

[RASSLER4LIFE]

After the formula change a couple of years ago, 1A & 2A is heavily dominated by the New Haven semi-state and the New Castle Semi-state is lucky to squeeze 1 team in. I know proportionately the NH semi state has a larger majority of those size schools but feel you need representation from each SS equally until you get to wild card teams. 

[QuinnHarris]

5 minutes ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

After the formula change a couple of years ago, 1A & 2A is heavily dominated by the New Haven semi-state and the New Castle Semi-state is lucky to squeeze 1 team in. I know proportionately the NH semi state has a larger majority of those size schools but feel you need representation from each SS equally until you get to wild card teams. 

Currently in the top 10 at 1A you have 

1 from East Chicago, West Central

1 from New Castle, Southmont

1 from Evansville, Cascade

 

The other 7 teams are all the New Haven SS

[RASSLER4LIFE]

58 minutes ago, QuinnHarris said:

Currently in the top 10 at 1A you have 

1 from East Chicago, West Central

1 from New Castle, Southmont

1 from Evansville, Cascade

 

The other 7 teams are all the New Haven SS

Exactly my point! In 2A, none form NC and 6 from NH. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by RASSLER4LIFE

[X_R A T E D]

1 hour ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

After the formula change a couple of years ago, 1A & 2A is heavily dominated by the New Haven semi-state and the New Castle Semi-state is lucky to squeeze 1 team in. I know proportionately the NH semi state has a larger majority of those size schools but feel you need representation from each SS equally until you get to wild card teams. 

Do we want the best overall 12 teams or the top 3 teams from each semi state? The numbers are not proportional for around the whole state but the formula does a good job at getting the top level teams  invited

[RASSLER4LIFE]

3 minutes ago, X_R A T E D said:

Do we want the best overall 12 teams or the top 3 teams from each semi state? The numbers are not proportional for around the whole state but the formula does a good job at getting the top level teams  invited

Hamilton Heights, Bishop Chatard are both going to be solid next year and HH already proved they belong this year. There is only 3 teams represented in the top 25 from NCSS. I’m just saying that maybe the weighted scale is skewed a little. 

[rookie78]

1 hour ago, QuinnHarris said:

Currently in the top 10 at 1A you have 

1 from East Chicago, West Central

1 from New Castle, Southmont

1 from Evansville, Cascade

 

The other 7 teams are all the New Haven SS

 

Great reason to move 1A back NORTH!!

 

 

 

[Pg_rated]

1 hour ago, QuinnHarris said:

Currently in the top 10 at 1A you have 

1 from East Chicago, West Central

1 from New Castle, Southmont

1 from Evansville, Cascade

 

The other 7 teams are all the New Haven SS

Do you have any suggestions? 

[X_R A T E D]

Here's how 1a would look if we did the top 3 (with each teams current place after regional) from each semi state to have even involvement. 5 top 12 teams wouldn't even be competing at Team State if we used this method. 
 

Fort Wayne: Rochester (1), Cowan (2), North Miami (3)

East Chicago: West Central (7), Faith Christian (13), Seeger (21)

New Castle: Southmont (8), Rossville (14), Eastern Hancock (17)

Evansville: Cascade (5), Tell City (12), Switzerland County (22)

And imagine if we did top 2 from each semi state in 3a and 4a. In 4a, the Fort Wayne teams would be Homestead who is in 15th place and Elkhart in 20th currently.

 

It would be nice to see more representation across the state but 1a and 2a has many good teams in the Fort Wayne area. Fort Wayne also hasn't been represented well in 3a and 4a when you look at the history of this event. The only goal of Team State should be to invite the top 12 or top 8 teams to make the best event possible! 

[maligned]

1 hour ago, RASSLER4LIFE said:

After the formula change a couple of years ago, 1A & 2A is heavily dominated by the New Haven semi-state and the New Castle Semi-state is lucky to squeeze 1 team in. I know proportionately the NH semi state has a larger majority of those size schools but feel you need representation from each SS equally until you get to wild card teams. 

Any process weve used has yielded huge numbers of FW schools at 1A and 2A. It's tough. It's a little like saying, why can't we leave out EMD, who's only 3rd best from their semi-state and give someone like Homestead a shot? The qualifying doesn't bear it out and neither do the season results. FW is a small school hotbed. Small schools wont usually produce state champ level talent, but the depth of very good is at a high level there right now. Do people realize FW SS went 28-28 in its 1st round State Finals matches last year with 24 of those 28 state placers being 1A/2A? The entire rest of the state had 25 QUALIFIERS from 1A/2A and only 11 placers. 

 

Someone was saying last year how few 1A teams get through from New Castle to Team State, but NC had an exactly proportional 25% of the participants the previous 5 years and averaged 9th place out of 12.

 

Not all 4A schools/regions are created equally, but the same is true for FW with 1A/2A right now.

[Faithcoach]

Do the current scores reflect points that were sent in for wrestlers who were unable to wrestle due to injury?