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H.B.

New State Format

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While our state tournament is pretty special, it overall isn’t perfect. We hear arguments of wrestlebacks, classes, etc., so how would you go about formatting the state tournament?

For me, I’d probably seed the state tournament, add wrestlebacks, and drop placements to six. I feel as if it would create a better atmosphere and tournament that ensures the best matches. In the current system, a bottom-ranked, ten loss semi-state champ could make the top four while the second-ranked, one loss guy, who could’ve done no more than injury default/MFF a match at semi-state, could possibly draw the #1 in the quarters and have to settle for 5th when he’s one of the top two wrestlers there. 

As for placement change, it just seems odd to me that you can have a state medalist in Indiana with only one win at the tournament (8th place wrestler goes 1-3). That hardly seems fair to first round losers who could wrestle back and earn their spot. Nowhere else in the United States do you find a state medalist with only one win at their tournament. By dropping two placements, it would ensure that the bottom placer, assuming they were beaten first round, would have at least two matches won en route to a medal.

These are just my thoughts. Give me some of yours.

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I'd love to see full wrestlebacks at State at least.  But I doubt it will ever happen.  With only one class, reducing placements to six is a terrible idea IMO.  I get the thought of a wrestler going 1-3 and placing 8th, but the fact is, they earned their spot at State and won on Friday night.  With other states having 2, 3, 4 or more classes it just doesn't make sense to have a single class only go to 6 places. A 3 state class going to 8 places would have 24 State Placers and Indiana would only have 6 in that scenario.  

I also like the idea of in lieu of full wrestlebacks, at least doing so after the first round.  Every year there are guys that finish 5th with one loss who are very likely the 3rd best wrestler in that weight at State.  

Despite the imperfections, I'm okay with the way it is now.  Losing at State on Friday night sucks (ask Cole Ross x2) but that's part of knowing what can happen if you have a bad SS.  Excitement is definitely added as it stands now.

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I just got done watching (CIF) California State Finals, been watching it the past few days. Love wrestling, check it out . I love their seeding, brackets, and even their State Series in general. Double elimination up to 3rd. Wrestle backs . They added Girls division to go right along side Boys Finals . Flo picked up the coverage, without a hitch . Which I was surprised. Excellent coverage. Watched every match if you want. Worth every penny I paid for Flo . Yes it’s 4 days but it’s like the NCAA’s, always interesting matches going on, split screen was awesome. 

Indiana can take a page from this tournament. We know our format is tough, but after watching CIF tournament. ITS TIME to #Evolve IHSAA . 

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7 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:

I just got done watching (CIF) California State Finals, been watching it the past few days. Love wrestling, check it out . I love their seeding, brackets, and even their State Series in general. Double elimination up to 3rd. Wrestle backs . They added Girls division to go right along side Boys Finals . Flo picked up the coverage, without a hitch . Which I was surprised. Excellent coverage. Watched every match if you want. Worth every penny I paid for Flo . Yes it’s 4 days but it’s like the NCAA’s, always interesting matches going on, split screen was awesome. 

Indiana can take a page from this tournament. We know our format is tough, but after watching CIF tournament. ITS TIME to #Evolve IHSAA . 

I was very happy to read this. I’ve watched California’s tournament finals the past few years and have yet to be disappointed, but the coverage from Flo this year was phenomenal. I am with you in saying it’s time for Indiana to evolve.

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I don’t think true wrestle backs will happen. 

I think you should take semi state ticket round losers and wrestle them to 5/6. Adds 3 matches per weight to semi state.   

Take six per weight to state. This eliminates the random semi state death draw issues and pretty much guarantees the top kids earn a trip to state. 

Start a little earlier and run 2 rounds Friday at state. 5 vs 4 and 6 vs 3. The semi state champ and runner up gets a bye. 

Everything else stays the same. 

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Don’t think you’ll ever get full wrestlebacks at state. To the IHSAA the point is to crown the champion. So it doesn’t matter to them that someone who got 5th shouldve been 3rd.

Any wrestleback efforts should be aimed at the semi state. Go back to taking three from regionals (have to win two matches) and add a wrestle back round to semi state. 

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2 hours ago, jetwrestling said:

I don’t think true wrestle backs will happen. 

I think you should take semi state ticket round losers and wrestle them to 5/6. Adds 3 matches per weight to semi state.   

Take six per weight to state. This eliminates the random semi state death draw issues and pretty much guarantees the top kids earn a trip to state. 

Start a little earlier and run 2 rounds Friday at state. 5 vs 4 and 6 vs 3. The semi state champ and runner up gets a bye. 

Everything else stays the same. 

This has been my vote also. IHSAA wins by putting more butts in seats. 

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2 hours ago, jetwrestling said:

I don’t think true wrestle backs will happen. 

I think you should take semi state ticket round losers and wrestle them to 5/6. Adds 3 matches per weight to semi state.   

Take six per weight to state. This eliminates the random semi state death draw issues and pretty much guarantees the top kids earn a trip to state. 

Start a little earlier and run 2 rounds Friday at state. 5 vs 4 and 6 vs 3. The semi state champ and runner up gets a bye. 

Everything else stays the same. 

Didn't the ISHAA discuss this years ago?  Or at least something like it?

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On 2/24/2019 at 8:48 AM, jetwrestling said:

I don’t think true wrestle backs will happen. 

I think you should take semi state ticket round losers and wrestle them to 5/6. Adds 3 matches per weight to semi state.   

Take six per weight to state. This eliminates the random semi state death draw issues and pretty much guarantees the top kids earn a trip to state. 

Start a little earlier and run 2 rounds Friday at state. 5 vs 4 and 6 vs 3. The semi state champ and runner up gets a bye. 

Everything else stays the same. 

My question how would you pair the 5th and 6th... I mean what semi state would they match up.

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On 2/24/2019 at 12:37 AM, TeamGarcia said:

I just got done watching (CIF) California State Finals, been watching it the past few days. Love wrestling, check it out . I love their seeding, brackets, and even their State Series in general. Double elimination up to 3rd. Wrestle backs . They added Girls division to go right along side Boys Finals . Flo picked up the coverage, without a hitch . Which I was surprised. Excellent coverage. Watched every match if you want. Worth every penny I paid for Flo . Yes it’s 4 days but it’s like the NCAA’s, always interesting matches going on, split screen was awesome. 

Indiana can take a page from this tournament. We know our format is tough, but after watching CIF tournament. ITS TIME to #Evolve IHSAA . 

4 days??? SMH

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Took a look at California's setup (http://www.cifstate.org/sports/wrestling/index)

  • It's a 3-day tournament, not 4 (Wednesday is registration/workout day.  Thursday is half-day, then full days on Friday/Saturday)
  • It is a true double-elimination with full wrestlebacks to 3rd place
  • There are 40 wrestlers per weight class
  • State is divided into 10 Sections
  • Number of qualifiers in each weight class is set for each section - and is the same for each weight class:  Southern(9) Central(10) Sac-Joaquin(6) North Coast(3) Central Coast(3) San Diego(4) Northern(2) Los Angeles*(1) Oakland(1) San Francisco(1)
  • Pairings for the weight classes will be done by the State Rules and Operation Committee and the state meet director (Brackets are SEEDED)
  • Looks like the top 16 for each weight class are seeded then the rest are drawn into open spaces

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On 2/23/2019 at 11:55 PM, H.B. said:

While our state tournament is pretty special, it overall isn’t perfect. We hear arguments of wrestlebacks, classes, etc., so how would you go about formatting the state tournament?

For me, I’d probably seed the state tournament, add wrestlebacks, and drop placements to six. I feel as if it would create a better atmosphere and tournament that ensures the best matches. In the current system, a bottom-ranked, ten loss semi-state champ could make the top four while the second-ranked, one loss guy, who could’ve done no more than injury default/MFF a match at semi-state, could possibly draw the #1 in the quarters and have to settle for 5th when he’s one of the top two wrestlers there. 

As for placement change, it just seems odd to me that you can have a state medalist in Indiana with only one win at the tournament (8th place wrestler goes 1-3). That hardly seems fair to first round losers who could wrestle back and earn their spot. Nowhere else in the United States do you find a state medalist with only one win at their tournament. By dropping two placements, it would ensure that the bottom placer, assuming they were beaten first round, would have at least two matches won en route to a medal.

These are just my thoughts. Give me some of yours.

ya but you don't see that anywhere else because most of the other states wrestling in classes such as 1A 2A 3A  so they have way more state placers than indiana all the kids that make it to the state tournament in  indiana deserve to be there and if they can win there first match they are good enough to be the top 8 in the state at there weight class

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I think 3 days for state finals is too much.

I also think the format should be three classes - Big, Small, Private.

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We might as well go 6 classes everyone qualifies, 3 day tournament. I think that would make everyone happy. HAHA

We will never be happy in Indiana, we have tried to make changes with the IHSAA and they continue to veto everything. We will have to live with no wrestlebacks after sectionals. Four qualify from regionals, 4 from semi-state, and one and done on Friday. Yes hearts will be broken but it is the way of the IHSAA. 

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Why does having three classes mean we might as well go to six? Does having four qualifiers at each level mean we might as well have 8? Does having 14 weight classes mean we might as well have 28? Does the logic only apply to classes?

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Galagore - do you think going to 3 classes could hurt other sports at the smaller schools? Current situation is that athletic kids are expected to play 2 or 3 sports.

Your suggestion is that by classing the individual championships, more students may go out for wrestling, they might be more encouraged to do offseason training, and although the number of college scholarships will not change, more of them may begin to go to the smaller school athletes who will now be noticed by college coaches where they weren't before.

Could all this small school wrestling love also encourage more athletes to specialize in wrestling, which could then hurt the football/baseball/track teams who are competing for their availability also?

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No, I don’t think classing will hurt other sports. As for the rest of your post, I think you are confusing my reasoning with Joe’s. My main reason has always been that we should class wrestling (and all individual sports) for the same reason we class the rest: fairness. An athlete at a small school is almost playing a different sport than one at a large school. It makes a lot of sense to me to classify as such. Everyone can make choices and adjustments, but to say that generally a wrestler at a small school has pretty much the same opportunity as one at a large school seems absurd. 

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Classing wrestling won't cause more small schools kids to focus just on wrestling. Classing will make it easier to for small school kids to do multiple sports. they're success is being measured against kids from their school size so some of their disadvantages go away. I doubt classing basketball cause more basketball players to focus just on basketball. I know at our school more basketball players started playing other sports once it was classed.Yes I understand there could have been other factors. More football players may join wrestling if they feel they can actually succeed. I'm sure there may be some cases of this causing more 1 sport athletes but I don't think it will be enough to cause a concern.

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On 2/26/2019 at 11:25 AM, base said:

Took a look at California's setup (http://www.cifstate.org/sports/wrestling/index)

  • It's a 3-day tournament, not 4 (Wednesday is registration/workout day.  Thursday is half-day, then full days on Friday/Saturday)

I don’t think Indiana education laws would allow high school kids to miss this much school (3 days) to participate in an athletic event.

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