charger.dad Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 how about making it simple....just take the top 8 ranked teams and the end of the regular season......this would be based on a ranking system set up by the IHSAA, maybe some independent, possibly the coaches association, someone that is set in place at the start of the season and tracks the rankings each week just like college football.....the last poll of the season which would come out after everyones regular duals season has ended (or possibly after sectionals) would determine who goes.......surely you would get the best teams in there and in the end, the winner would be the state champ.....i would make it a one day event on the saturday after the individual state finals.....first round starts at 8 am and the 4 winners advance, second round starts at 1pm and the 2 winners wrestle for the state championship at 6pm.....how much easier could it get than that?......no doubt you will get some complaining from the 9th and lower ranked teams saying they should have been there, but, if you were at that ranking, then chances are you aren't the one to win state that year..... this causes no schedule changes for the regular season....it basically doesn't effect anything at all.....i would have the kids weigh in on friday night and even give them a 5 pound allowence over the stated weight....maybe it isn't the perfect solution but it's pretty close..... holy moly people.....all these ideas are great other than the fact that they all are to involved, take too much time and take too much planning......i'll only post my idea one more time for comment (of which it got virtually none the first 2 times.....lol)......it really seems like great idea to me and is so simple......and after that i'm going to watch toddlers and tiaras......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The problem with that is the same issue with the bcs....what if thee 8 and 9 teams are similar or say the 9 team beat the 8 team but has one more loss ... Do u seed it based on rankings it's just not a fair judgement if it is based of a small groups oppinion on the best teams....could get too political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Just invite LN, CP, PM, Bellmont, EMD, Mishawaka, Yorktown and Penn every year. Has any team in the past 15 years competed YEARLY for a state championship outside of those programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The problem with that is the same issue with the bcs....what if thee 8 and 9 teams are similar or say the 9 team beat the 8 team but has one more loss ... Do u seed it based on rankings it's just not a fair judgement if it is based of a small groups oppinion on the best teams....could get too political no doubt that ranking teams would be a little iffy at times......but.....within those 8 teams that do get invited, surely the best team in the state is in there and will probably win, which is what we're aall after.....the best team being crowned state champions..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Just invite LN, CP, PM, Bellmont, EMD, Mishawaka, Yorktown and Penn every year. Has any team in the past 15 years competed YEARLY for a state championship outside of those programs? no sh!t.....that's a fact.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Just invite LN, CP, PM, Bellmont, EMD, Mishawaka, Yorktown and Penn every year. Has any team in the past 15 years competed YEARLY for a state championship outside of those programs? Portage was second twice, Griffith was second once, and Avon was second once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Just invite LN, CP, PM, Bellmont, EMD, Mishawaka, Yorktown and Penn every year. Has any team in the past 15 years competed YEARLY for a state championship outside of those programs? I like it! That would be an awesome dual and the teams that spend so much time and effort on developing team can continue to do so and compete head to head every year and the other 98% of the teams across the state that could give a crap about a team competition can do their own thing. Heck, go ahead and class it and pull another 16 teams into it. Then the other 92% of the schools that don't give a crap about a team competition can do their own thing. I think you could create some sort of petition program where, let's say one of the Elite 8 finished in the bottom two for whatever period of years (2,3,5 a board decides), then a new team can get in. I really don't think there would be much push back from most of the H.S. teams across the state. Frankly, the winner of that Large School 8 would be the baddest team in Hoosier Land with little to no argument from anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I like it! That would be an awesome dual and the teams that spend so much time and effort on developing team can continue to do so and compete head to head every year and the other 98% of the teams across the state that could give a crap about a team competition can do their own thing. Heck, go ahead and class it and pull another 16 teams into it. Then the other 92% of the schools that don't give a crap about a team competition can do their own thing. I think you could create some sort of petition program where, let's say one of the Elite 8 finished in the bottom two for whatever period of years (2,3,5 a board decides), then a new team can get in. I really don't think there would be much push back from most of the H.S. teams across the state. Frankly, the winner of that Large School 8 would be the baddest team in Hoosier Land with little to no argument from anybody. Wow. I am not from one of these schools, and I somehow thought most coaches and fans loved the team tournament. If this is a common opinion, I must be way out of touch. The team aspect was huge for us when I was in school and when I coached, even though we had no chance against some top dogs most years. This outlook is extremely foreign to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Wow. I am not from one of these schools, and I somehow thought most coaches and fans loved the team tournament. If this is a common opinion, I must be way out of touch. The team aspect was huge for us when I was in school and when I coached, even though we had no chance against some top dogs most years. This outlook is extremely foreign to me. Most small schools only care about the individual tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Most small schools only care about the individual tournament What if it was a three class tournament? Would small schools start to care then? I coach at a small school, and found the team state to be very important for our sport. A classed tournament would be a great showcase for all of our top teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrq Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 What if it was a three class tournament? Would small schools start to care then? I coach at a small school, and found the team state to be very important for our sport. A classed tournament would be a great showcase for all of our top teams. Busco I'm glad you said it first but I sure wish it could of happened last year Prairie Heights sure would of had a chance at the small school division. And to think im sure the little school on the Prairie would of brought atleast a hundred or soo spectators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 What if it was a three class tournament? Would small schools start to care then? I coach at a small school, and found the team state to be very important for our sport. A classed tournament would be a great showcase for all of our top teams. Do you really in all honesty think the association can accomplish that in its current state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 One aspect I think some people are missing is that even though most teams never qualified for team state it was still significant to many team that they could participate as a whole squad at team regional or possibly even win and compete in team semi-state. While many team would look at team state as a pipe dream that may happen some day. Plenty held up the possibility of keeping their team together one more week at team regional (and at one time team semi-state) as an obtainable goal. Clearly these possible goals pushed the season for several teams in the state and if divided up into 3 classes would push three times as many teams. Those type of realistic opportunities pushed many teams, make individual feel like their team mattered, and the team victories lead to more kids interested in being part of the squad. Taking those opportunities away from the kids is a big aspect that which now kids will now miss out on and program will not be able to use o push their teams or grow their numbers. Having a individual State point based system and/or the current plan for a Hall of Fame Classic may give a few kids something to talk about but will fall very short emulate the team focus the state dual series created. A 8 team invite event even if it is classed help in some aspects, but will only be a shell of what the previous event had the potential to inspire in many teams across the state. How we can get an event that resembles that type of team feeling we once had is beyond me at this point but the benefits even on the sectional and regional levels it created in the practice room and for program make it well worth trying to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Do you really in all honesty think the association can accomplish that in its current state? Honestly I think that the IHSWCA could have put together an event that had eight teams from three classes in it. I have no doubt about that. The question to me is whether or not the best teams in the state would have gotten on board and did whatever was needed to be involved in the event. Would they be willing to change their schedules to fit it in? Would they view it as a legit team state event? If they would have done this then yes I believe that an invite team state would have been very attainable. If the top teams would not have been willing to change then the answer is no. It would be up to the coaches around the state to decide the importance of the event. The IHSWCA could have found the spaces and ran the event I have no doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 So in order to obtain this mythical state championship we must have teams pulling out of their current events and canceling events they are hosting? Then when they are not invited back they will have to try to find a new event to attend or even try to get teams to come back to their former event. Sounds reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 So in order to obtain this mythical state championship we must have teams pulling out of their current events and canceling events they are hosting? Then when they are not invited back they will have to try to find a new event to attend or even try to get teams to come back to their former event. Sounds reasonable. Do you really think that teams that are in the top ten in their class would really have that much trouble finding an event to get into on another date? I'm pretty sure that those teams could have either gotten into different events or started their own at different times in the season. If this event was really viewed as a championship then the schedules could be changed in a season or two. Again it depends on how the event was viewed, if the top teams wouldn't be willing to view it as a championship and change their schedules to go to it than the event would be doomed from the start. If they would have been willing to change and compete in the event it could have been very succseful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Because this is replacing team state! This is a waste of time....as numerous people have pointed out there is already a slew of "showcase" or "spotlight" meets.... they are called Al Smith, Belmont duals, MD Holiday tourney etc. As suggested above..invite the top 8 in each class for one day of wrestling otherwise dont waste anyones time Its NOT replacing team state!!!! Why is that so hard to comprehend. And yes, there are a slew of other showcase meets but does that mean we cant have more??? And waste time??? Really.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 AJ, I think the negative comments come because we have tournaments around the state that are really good and display the top teams in the state. Al Smith, Bellmont duals, and the North Mont duals are all great meets and showcase the states best teams. Not saying the Hall of Fame is bad for wrestling but is far from where we were a month ago at the clinic. I agree with this... It seems like some people are mad about the IHSWCA not being able to create a team series of some sort so they then just automatically dislike what he IHSWCA did decide to implament. Reading Coach McCormicks post it seems like they tried to find a way to get it done but were not successful for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrq Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Sounds like the perfect time for the ISWA or HYWAY to jump in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Do you really think that teams that are in the top ten in their class would really have that much trouble finding an event to get into on another date? I'm pretty sure that those teams could have either gotten into different events or started their own at different times in the season. If this event was really viewed as a championship then the schedules could be changed in a season or two. Again it depends on how the event was viewed, if the top teams wouldn't be willing to view it as a championship and change their schedules to go to it than the event would be doomed from the start. If they would have been willing to change and compete in the event it could have been very succseful. That is quite a bit of leg work each and every year for an AD and a coach to find a new event that won't care if they drop out every so often. I find it disturbing that you would want to hurt the current events that are hosted on that date by either stealing teams from them or having them canceled altogether. These events are used by the host teams as fund raisers and ways of showcasing wrestling in their community. Even when you take one good team out, the quality becomes less and the other teams will be more likely to drop the event for another one and thus the host school loses their fundraiser. How exactly does that help the sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrq Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Maybe I'm way off but if you'r wrestlers knew that they were wrestling the week after season was over for a team championship they wouldnt stick it out even though it wasnt IHSAA sanctioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 That is quite a bit of leg work each and every year for an AD and a coach to find a new event that won't care if they drop out every so often. I find it disturbing that you would want to hurt the current events that are hosted on that date by either stealing teams from them or having them canceled altogether. These events are used by the host teams as fund raisers and ways of showcasing wrestling in their community. Even when you take one good team out, the quality becomes less and the other teams will be more likely to drop the event for another one and thus the host school loses their fundraiser. How exactly does that help the sport? It is not what I want to have happen, but given the circumstances if we were to have a team tournament somethings would have t be lost in the process. I find a classed team state to be the most important issue that we as a state have. I think that it would do more to help wrestling than anything else that we could do. I do not know if others feel that it is as important as what I do. I do not know if they would be willing to change their schedules to make it work, that would be up to those schools and their coaches. It is the same as when any new invitational starts up, teams have to leave the other event that they were in. You guys are starting an invite at Garrett, I would have to assume that most of the teams in your invite had to drop something that they were previously invovled with, doesnt that hurt those events just as the team state would have? Do you feel bad about hurting the other current events that lost teams so that you could have an invite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 It is not what I want to have happen, but given the circumstances if we were to have a team tournament somethings would have t be lost in the process. I find a classed team state to be the most important issue that we as a state have. I think that it would do more to help wrestling than anything else that we could do. I do not know if others feel that it is as important as what I do. There is a big difference between a team state put on by the IHSWCA and one put on by the IHSAA. I do not know if they would be willing to change their schedules to make it work, that would be up to those schools and their coaches. It is the same as when any new invitational starts up, teams have to leave the other event that they were in. You guys are starting an invite at Garrett, I would have to assume that most of the teams in your invite had to drop something that they were previously invovled with, doesnt that hurt those events just as the team state would have? Teams are making a committment to be in the event for an X number of years, not in one year out the next, in one year out the next. Do you feel bad about hurting the other current events that lost teams so that you could have an invite? Again they are not hurting those events by dropping them permenantly. They are telling the AD/coach that they are going somewhere else. They aren't telling them that this year we are going to Garrett, but we will be back either next year or the year after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I really feel like the only way to feasibly pull it all off is to have all teams locked into wrestling on a couple of duals evenings and one particular Saturday. Then, teams that don't advance would also automatically fall into consolation duals and/or a consolation tournament according to pre-planned locations and opponent pools. Due to all the reasons mentioned, teams pulling in and out of events willy-nilly just won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I've not been a supporter of a class system for team state in the past. But now, with all these proposed potential options and the fact that team state will be euthanized after this year I've changed my mind. It does seem to me that classing a team state tournament would grow the sport at smaller schools that need it. Like ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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