Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

takemtothemat

sectional realignment

Recommended Posts

So this is where the wrestle backs discussion has been hiding. I am for all the above. Super regional, more dual meets and less 2 days, and wrestle backs.

 

Just so I understand if we take 5 to State. 4 wrestles 5 the first round. Then we have another round where 1 wrestles the winner of the first round. 2 wrestles 3.

 

Or are you saying 1 gets a bye Friday night?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if small schools don't like it. We got a novel solution for that will shorten the tournament and provide recognition for the small schools which they will like. Its called "Class Wrestling".

I know you didn't say it, but not all small schools want classed individual state finals

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know own you didn't say it, but not all small schools want classed individual state finals

I'd settle for classed team duals and single class individual. However I'd like to see the regular season shorter with both classed and single class team dual and individual tournaments. Make the classed duals and individual tournaments as a "warm up" to the single class dual and individual tournaments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd settle for classed team duals and single class individual. However I'd like to see the regular season shorter with both classed and single class team dual and individual tournaments. Make the classed duals and individual tournaments as a "warm up" to the single class dual and individual tournaments.

No other state does that and why would a big school wrestler need to then again "prove it" a couple weeks later. This isn't P-I-G on the basketball court where you need to affirm that your opponent is a pig!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No other state does that and why would a big school wrestler need to then again "prove it" a couple weeks later. This isn't P-I-G on the basketball court where you need to affirm that your opponent is a pig!

You never know what small school wrestler or team could knock off that big school wrestler or team. You'd have different opponents to open each tournament.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought byes in the past have not worked so well. Isn't that why they moved to 4 going to semi-state. To many 1 seeds losing after having bye.

This isn't it. The bye had no effect on 1-seeds winning or losing except in some specific anecdotal cases. It was for one reason only: cash money. More kids in the bracket means more teams, more individuals, more parents, and more income. After being told for many years that semi-state takes too long as it is and that there's no time for the extra hour that would be added by incorporating wrestlebacks from the quarterfinals, we received 4th place kids from regional going to semi-state without anyone requesting it and we extended the day by 2 hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep I agree thats why I switched my schedule already to less matches and my kids love it.  But as I have told you the coaches association is the voice of the coaches.  So unless the majority of coaches want something we don't propose it.  My personal feelings don't effect what a survey says. 

 

In regards to #2, Faulkens said it at multiple meetings that we need to do something about match counts. This was heard by more than my ears. It was a warning for us as coaches to do something BEFORE the IHSAA does something. I'd rather the proposal and changes be on our terms than the IHSAA's. This is something that needs addressed promptly or else we'll get something like a 25 match count limit. 

We cannot ignore the warnings like we did when they kept saying team state would be taken away.


Less expenses with less weeks, right now I'm sure sectionals are at the break even point with expenses and revenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep I agree thats why I switched my schedule already to less matches and my kids love it.  But as I have told you the coaches association is the voice of the coaches.  So unless the majority of coaches want something we don't propose it.  My personal feelings don't effect what a survey says. 

Pretty simple fix for match numbers.....18 points (what we have now) 1 point for a Dual, 2 points for any one day of multiple match competition if three (3), or less, matches are scheduled/wrestled during the day (this exempts an extra match a person may wrestle due to wrestlbacks in a Conference tournament), and 3 points for any one day of multiple match competition if four (4), or more  matches are wrestled in the total event.

 

This year we wrestled:  (points if you use the above suggestion)

4 Dual Meets                                   =    4 points      (4)

5 Super Six Events                          =   10 points     (15)

1 Super Eight Event (2 day)            =   2 points      (6)

1 8 Team Individual Tournament    =   2 points       (2)

 

For a total of the "legal" 18 points.  If you use the suggested points it becomes 27 points

 

This might be a possible schedule to meet the suggested requirements

4 Dual Meets               = 4 points

4 Triple Duals              =  8 points

1 Super Eight (or holiday tournament)   =  4 points

1 8 Team Individual tournaent        =  2 points

 

Under the above the total is 18 points

 

Wiith this an individual would be somewhere in the 25-30 match range going into sectional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is probably the easiest way to eliminate a week

 

16- 20 team sectionals(basically use current regional structure with some changes)

 

Friday night wrestle the 4 rat or pig tails and then the first round of 16- 12 matches per weight max. That would last about 3 hours total. Pig/rat tail losers are eliminated.

Saturday wrestle the rest of the tournament with full wrestle-backs with the top 4 advancing to semi-state.

 

Semi-states with 16 as usual

State with 16 as usual

Good idea.  This was the way Sectionals were ran for years (pre 1975 or 76) and they worked pretty well.  You could either eliminate a week off the end of the schedule and give teams a chance to stretch their schedules out a bit, or take a week off the beginning.  If they limts match numbers I like taking a week off the beginning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where would a tournament like the Al Smith or Mooresville fit in?

 

And why would the Super 8 be only 4 points?

Your question about the Super 8 is a good one.  I think, by my definition, it should be five points which would put my hypothetically team over the limit.  The Al Smith, and tournament like it, would be 5 points as well....I am not sure if Mooresville is a two day event. Certainly there needs to be some tweeking to this idea. 

 

Another idea would be for them to simply set a number...say 30 points with each scheduled match counting as a point.  When I say scheduled match I mean that if you have a Conference Tournament with eight teams and wrestlebacks it would count as 3 points because if you win it you will wrestle three times.  You may get a few more matches over the course of the season due to wrestlebacks, but counting the points against the number of matches it takes to win the event means less trying to figure it all out.  If it is a super 6 it is five points..if it is a sixteen team individual tournament it is four and so on........this is pretty simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like either of those, but as of now we don't need a total reinvention of the wheel. We need to show the IHSAA that we are working towards getting solidarity in limiting matches and time spent in a gym.

 

The simplest is to limit the number of two-day events that county as 2 points. That is a great place to start as our match limit would be drastically cut from 74 to 44. If you want to get even more fancy go to 17 points and require 5 duals. That would give us a hard limit of 40 matches before sectional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if we keep the point system as it is, but make all 2-day events 3 points?

Our max number of matches would still be 44.

 

However...the one thing I could see is it would make you do one of two things,

1. Add a 5th dual(which is good)

2. Add a second 2 day event(which I would say is bad)

 

If you would do something like for every two day event you need one extra dual...then I'd be very much for that. It would then put the hard limit at 42 matches(7 duals, 1 Super Dual, 3 2-days).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like either of those, but as of now we don't need a total reinvention of the wheel. We need to show the IHSAA that we are working towards getting solidarity in limiting matches and time spent in a gym.

 

The simplest is to limit the number of two-day events that county as 2 points. That is a great place to start as our match limit would be drastically cut from 74 to 44. If you want to get even more fancy go to 17 points and require 5 duals. That would give us a hard limit of 40 matches before sectional.

Solid ideas Joe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you create a super Sectional, by combining the 2 sectionals that feed into a regional, and run it as 1 tournament it would take about 9 hours of wrestling on 4 mats. With 1 hour for weight ins and scratches and another hour for lunch, you could get the whole tournament done in less than 12 hours. Start at 8 and end by 8 or 9 at the lasted. The only change would be to allow wrestlers to wrestle 6 matches that day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you create a super Sectional, by combining the 2 sectionals that feed into a regional, and run it as 1 tournament it would take about 9 hours of wrestling on 4 mats. With 1 hour for weight ins and scratches and another hour for lunch, you could get the whole tournament done in less than 12 hours. Start at 8 and end by 8 or 9 at the lasted. The only change would be to allow wrestlers to wrestle 6 matches that day.

That is why everyone is saying make it Friday/Saturday with the rat/pig tails and the round of 16 on Friday and the rest on Saturday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.