Jump to content
slice60

Sectional Wrestlebacks

Recommended Posts

I have been away from the sport but regained interest this year. Sorry if this is dumb but I have a question about Wrestlebacks in the Sectional. 

Are these statements correct?

In 8-team Sectionals, losers in the 1st Round/Quarterfinals still have a chance to place in the top 4 & advance thru Wrestlebacks.

In those Sectionals with 9 or more teams, any wrestler who is drawn into a 1st Round/Round of 16 match & loses that match is completely eliminated from the tournament.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slice60 said:

I have been away from the sport but regained interest this year. Sorry if this is dumb but I have a question about Wrestlebacks in the Sectional. 

Are these statements correct?

In 8-team Sectionals, losers in the 1st Round/Quarterfinals still have a chance to place in the top 4 & advance thru Wrestlebacks.

In those Sectionals with 9 or more teams, any wrestler who is drawn into a 1st Round/Round of 16 match & loses that match is completely eliminated from the tournament.

correct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even worse - some sectionals choose to setup their brackets "fairly" so the lowest non-seeded wrestlers at least face each other in the first round (which I commend them for taking that step, and honestly I could live with that arrangement)

Others follow the "official" method of doing a blind draw for non-seeded wrestlers, and they end up in a mismatch against #1 and #2 sometimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some real-world examples from this year's preliminary brackets - no names will be used, and no offense to the wrestlers with losing records receiving a bye to the second round:

FW Carroll 182 pounds - SENIOR wrestler has a 10-13 record, and is unseeded.  Randomly drawn into facing the #1 seed in the first round, so likely this senior is done.  Meanwhile wrestlers with 5-9 and 6-19 records draw to an open spot so they get a bye straight to the 2nd round (and can wrestleback).  Also, the 3rd seed in this bracket is 9-11 and the 4th seed is 12-16 so those spots to advance to Regionals are pretty wide open.

Elwood 106 pounds - Wrestlers with 11-9 and 15-7 records go against each other in first round - loser goes home.  Meanwhile a wrestler with 0-3 record draws to a slot with a first round bye and will get opportunity to wrestleback for regionals

FW Carroll 120 pounds - Wrestlers with 15-16 and 19-7 in first round.  Wrestlers with 7-9 and 9-19 draw byes

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, base said:

Here are some real-world examples from this year's preliminary brackets - no names will be used, and no offense to the wrestlers with losing records receiving a bye to the second round:

FW Carroll 182 pounds - SENIOR wrestler has a 10-13 record, and is unseeded.  Randomly drawn into facing the #1 seed in the first round, so likely this senior is done.  Meanwhile wrestlers with 5-9 and 6-19 records draw to an open spot so they get a bye straight to the 2nd round (and can wrestleback).  Also, the 3rd seed in this bracket is 9-11 and the 4th seed is 12-16 so those spots to advance to Regionals are pretty wide open.

Elwood 106 pounds - Wrestlers with 11-9 and 15-7 records go against each other in first round - loser goes home.  Meanwhile a wrestler with 0-3 record draws to a slot with a first round bye and will get opportunity to wrestleback for regionals

FW Carroll 120 pounds - Wrestlers with 15-16 and 19-7 in first round.  Wrestlers with 7-9 and 9-19 draw byes

 

so looking at these bracket I believe it was seeded incorrectly.  We were instructed by the IHSAA as of this year a sectional like yours, which is comparable to our Jennings Co sectional in size, should grant the the top 6 seeds first round byes and unseeded wrestlers shall wrestle each other in the other open spots on bracket.  So unless our site host was wrong or your site host was wrong.  Someone seeded incorrectly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, graham said:

Curious... what rationale has been given as to why it is done this way?

I think the random draw was the official method for drawing brackets as of a few years ago - i know because i've been complaining every year for the past 5 or more. I didn't realize that the IHSAA changed their guidelines - if so that is a fantastic middle ground

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Per my research of the 27 brackets I have, 13 have done it the "proper" way with putting unseeded kids together in the rat tails. There are 8 that have done it via random draw. Usually there were a few renegade sectionals that did it the "proper" way in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Per my research of the 27 brackets I have, 13 have done it the "proper" way with putting unseeded kids together in the rat tails. There are 8 that have done it via random draw. Usually there were a few renegade sectionals that did it the "proper" way in the past.

I spoke to Robert last week to make sure to send out a reminder to make sure unseeded wrestlers wrestle each other in the pigtail. He said "got it." I am not sure if that information was put out or not to the host sites.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Per my research of the 27 brackets I have, 13 have done it the "proper" way with putting unseeded kids together in the rat tails. There are 8 that have done it via random draw. Usually there were a few renegade sectionals that did it the "proper" way in the past.

Details on those 8 Sectionals ? 🤨 

 

Edited by TeamGarcia
Added 8 and emoji

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Per my research of the 27 brackets I have, 13 have done it the "proper" way with putting unseeded kids together in the rat tails. There are 8 that have done it via random draw. Usually there were a few renegade sectionals that did it the "proper" way in the past.

So if it is in fact supposed to be done the “proper” way per the IHSAA then shouldn’t those 8 sectionals that didn’t do it that way change the bracket to have the unseeded wrestlers wrestle in the rat tails?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, base said:

Here are some real-world examples from this year's preliminary brackets - no names will be used, and no offense to the wrestlers with losing records receiving a bye to the second round:

FW Carroll 182 pounds - SENIOR wrestler has a 10-13 record, and is unseeded.  Randomly drawn into facing the #1 seed in the first round, so likely this senior is done.  Meanwhile wrestlers with 5-9 and 6-19 records draw to an open spot so they get a bye straight to the 2nd round (and can wrestleback).  Also, the 3rd seed in this bracket is 9-11 and the 4th seed is 12-16 so those spots to advance to Regionals are pretty wide open.

Elwood 106 pounds - Wrestlers with 11-9 and 15-7 records go against each other in first round - loser goes home.  Meanwhile a wrestler with 0-3 record draws to a slot with a first round bye and will get opportunity to wrestleback for regionals

FW Carroll 120 pounds - Wrestlers with 15-16 and 19-7 in first round.  Wrestlers with 7-9 and 9-19 draw byes

 

The 2 seed at Elwood also has to wrestle in the first round against an 11-15 kid.  I think it's ridiculous that an 0-3 and a 5-18 have buys but 15-7 and 21-4 do not.  This has to get better 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Raven27 said:

The 2 seed at Elwood also has to wrestle in the first round against an 11-15 kid.  I think it's ridiculous that an 0-3 and a 5-18 have buys but 15-7 and 21-4 do not.  This has to get better 

I agree... but i'm some circumstances a lot of kids would rather wrestle than get a bye... but you're right it's crazy honestly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So are folks on here saying they are what they are, or all the brackets will be changed for those who did not do the pigtails for unseeded wrestlers?

Guess I don't really care, but more curious than anything.

 

Edited by tnkpatton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Raven27 said:

The 2 seed at Elwood also has to wrestle in the first round against an 11-15 kid.  I think it's ridiculous that an 0-3 and a 5-18 have buys but 15-7 and 21-4 do not.  This has to get better 

I was SMH after seeing that bracket.  11-15 kid lost in recent dual to 4 seed in OT as well.  At least bye has to win for team points. This example could impact close team scores as well.  Maybe improvements can be made i the future.

Obviously have to win to advance and score team points.  I will take it "positively" as some early sectional excitement, I guess, since I have too, if I must. 😊

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, RAJR said:

I was SMH after seeing that bracket.  11-15 kid lost in recent dual to 4 seed in OT as well.  At least bye has to win for team points. This example could impact close team scores as well.  Maybe improvements can be made i the future.

Obviously have to win to advance and score team points.  I will take it "positively" as some early sectional excitement, I guess, since I have too, if I must. 😊

It does not work that way. In the 16 man brackets no first round results are scored for team points. So it does not matter if you win a match, get a forfeit or get a bye. All team scores are 0 after the first round. Winning in the 2nd round after getting a bye does not get any points for the bye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, chambers said:

It does not work that way. In the 16 man brackets no first round results are scored for team points. So it does not matter if you win a match, get a forfeit or get a bye. All team scores are 0 after the first round. Winning in the 2nd round after getting a bye does not get any points for the bye.

I know that and wasn't what I meant.  Hard to score if you loose first round and are out with tougher draw vs a bye or fft.  The bye or fft have a chance to advance and score in round 2 and beyond. 

Regardless, thankfully, this bracket has been updated and looks much better now!!! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.