Being held back for an age/experience advantage

[SLDchamp]

This issue was brought up to me the other day and I wasn't sure how to feel about it.  I know the IHSAA has an age requirement, which I believe is that a participants 20th birthdate must not fall before the begging of the sports season.  Not sure if that is accurate but I know it is similar.  Obviously, a kid could have been held back for various reasons, but when the athlete is held back simply for advantage reasons against others how do you feel about it?  Is it an acceptable thing to do for a parent to hold back their kid in order for them to hold an edge in the future. 

[NICfan]

I believe it's before the state tournament finishes in which a kid can not turn 20. If it is strictly for an advantage for the sport I don't agree with it.

[The Guru]

It's their kid. None of my business IMO

[jlittlejohn]

2013-14 IHSAA By-laws and Articles of Incorporation

Page 21

 

RULE 4 – AGE

4-1 Maximum Age of Student Athletes

A student who is or shall be twenty (20) years of age prior to or on the scheduled date of the

IHSAA state fi nals in a sport shall be ineligible for interschool athletic competition in that sport;

a student who is nineteen (19) years of age on the scheduled date of the IHSAA state fi nals

in a sport shall be eligible as to age for interschool athletic competition in that sport.

Q & A

Age Rule - Generally

Q. 4-1 Is a student eligible if the student turns twenty (20) years of age on the second

day of a two-day state fi nals tournament or on the day of a state fi nals held over 2

weekends, i.e., wrestling?

A. No, if a student turns 20 years of age on any scheduled date of a state fi nals the

student is ineligible to participate during that sport’s Contest Season and tournament

series. A student is considered to have turned twenty (20) years of age at 12:01

a.m. on the student’s birth date. (Rule 4-1)

[jlittlejohn]

Parenting is a shame and judgment minefield precisely because most of us are wading through uncertainty and self-doubt when it comes to raising our own children. To each his own. Far too many people become vested in others actions and loose focus on their own. Which is more important?

 

Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.

 

-Mark Twain

[Galagore]

I have read research that suggests holding your child back at the beginning (Kindergarten/first grade) improves his/her chances for success in nearly every aspect of school.  Being a year older/not being in the youngest say quarter of your class benefits children academically, socially, and athletically.  The study was done on hockey players, but based on the details (which I won't bore you with here) it seems it would apply to any sport.  I understand you are probably talking about holding back going from grade 8 to 9, but I have always found the research interesting, and thought it was applicable here.

[MattM]

I have read research that suggests holding your child back at the beginning (Kindergarten/first grade) improves his/her chances for success in nearly every aspect of school.  Being a year older/not being in the youngest say quarter of your class benefits children academically, socially, and athletically.  The study was done on hockey players, but based on the details (which I won't bore you with here) it seems it would apply to any sport.  I understand you are probably talking about holding back going from grade 8 to 9, but I have always found the research interesting, and thought it was applicable here.

 

I just finished up several education related courses a few of which explored some aspects of this subject, providing alternate views on the topic.  I've also seen similar research which said that that other than a initial improvement during the first year that no real significant advantage, in terms of educational gains, was found to occur afterward in the subjects they monitored.  These researchers said the initial findings did indicate more "maturity" in in the first years, but by the next few years the majority of the "older student" fell into the status quo of the were now with.  The  researchers pointed out that they felt parenting and social factors were  a larger indicator of the success that some of these children continued to show after the initial years of schooling.    So the jury may still be slightly out on how much of an educational advantage is gained. 

 

Other similar studies have been documented which show some support to the idea that little additional academic growth can be shown from any upper elementary to middle school students who were just held back by the school system due to academic failure.  The researchers say that if changes are made to that students academic plan (the setting they are in, the curriculum design, the courses offered, the human and supplemental resources available, etc.) some academic growth has been shown to occur.  However,  simple holding them back (basically repeating the same pattern as before even with a new set of teachers) resulted in little growth to no growth by most of the students.  Again this is a hot topic of debate considering holding students back due to academic failure has been the norm for many years in many public schools. 

 

 

As for the hockey study I have read alternate research as well which pointed out that due to the physical maturity (not educational) of the youth involved they were ahead of their peers in each level and mostly due to that fact were able to take advantage of the additional starting time in the games and added attention from coaches who notice them as "star players" since an early age.  Being the slightly more physical and mental mature player allowed them to spotlight early that helped them carry on.  I would think some of this may equal out a little in the final years of high school and into the college ages, as we see it do in other sports, but in the hockey study they did indicate the numbers didn't change too much.  However, in terms of an academic setting, this type of extra starting time and added coaching (teaching) attention isn't necessarily emulated like it is on the playing field.

[aoberlin]

I think it is a parents decision.  I do believe it should be made before they start school at all so it does not socially affect them.  Some kids start puberty later and if both parents were like that it could be a good decision.  It also depends what month the child was born.  My 2 boys were born in September and November so they will not be held back because they will already be old for their grade.  I flunked kindergarten so I was old for my grade and I am extremely happy I was.  My 8th grade year I weighed 80 pounds and my freshman year I couldn't break a hundred.  Finally my sophomore year I got an armpit hair and gained some weight.  For some kids it isn't an advantage and actually levels the playing field. 

[navy80]

When I turned 20 I almost had 2 years in the Navy....I still tell my parents I wish they would have held me back in school so I could have matured a little more and probably made it to the state finals!  I was 17 when I graduated.

 

My wife and I have made sure both our daughters have started kindergarten so they will be the oldest in their grade for academic purposes (and athletic purposes! lol)

[jchas]

This one is completely up to the parent. 

But if you asked me if it helps athletically.  I would say it helps when they are

younger.  But by the time they are Juniors and Seniors it doesn't make much difference.

The only exception to this.  Is the boy that matures really late, physically.

[Wrestling Scholar]

My older son had a teammate  on his wrestling team whose dad made the kid take eighth grade twice for athletic purposes like a redshirt year.  This was in Ohio.    I think the rules are a little different in Ohio on age but he did turn 20 his senior year.  He also won a state championship his senior year and placed 2nd his Junior year at the old 215 weight class.  He did also get a D1 scholarship, but never stuck it out the whole freshman year of college.

[SLDchamp]

My older son had a teammate  on his wrestling team whose dad made the kid take eighth grade twice for athletic purposes like a redshirt year.  This was in Ohio.    I think the rules are a little different in Ohio on age but he did turn 20 his senior year.  He also won a state championship his senior year and placed 2nd his Junior year at the old 215 weight class.  He did also get a D1 scholarship, but never stuck it out the whole freshman year of college.

this is moreso what i was reffering to by being "held back" and not so much at the kindergarten level

[aoberlin]

this is moreso what i was reffering to by being "held back" and not so much at the kindergarten level

 

I don't agree with that either.  Hopefully your child has made some friends with their fellow classmates and to shift grades would suck.  Now if they are moving to a different school during this transition that is another story but I still don't like it.  I am sure St. Paris Graham or any of those other top private school powerhouses could clue you in with what it does to the kid socially when moved and held back for athletics.

[jchas]

If they do well on the athletic field.  I am sure it will not be hard to make friends on the new team.

 

    We had the opportunity to do both with my son.  We just felt like it was better for him and our family

for him to stay where he was.  Every situation is different though.  As parents we make a lot of decisions

along the way.  You just have to do what you think is best at the time and keep moving forward.

 

[Fabio Jr.]

Graham is a Public School Not relevant to the conversation but that knowledge makes them even more impressive

[aoberlin]

Graham is a Public School Not relevant to the conversation but that knowledge makes them even more impressive

Bad example.  I assumed they were because everyone calls them St. Paris Graham and I thought there is no way a school with Saint in the name was public.  But I see that St. Paris is the city and Graham High School is the school.  I stand corrected and yes that is impressive.  Learn something everyday.

[Y2CJ41]

Graham much like Apple Valley are "public" schools....if you get the drift.

[Wrestling Scholar]

Bad example.  I assumed they were because everyone calls them St. Paris Graham and I thought there is no way a school with Saint in the name was public.  But I see that St. Paris is the city and Graham High School is the school.  I stand corrected and yes that is impressive.  Learn something everyday.

 

The Kid that took 8th grade twice and became an Ohio State champion I referenced earlier did take some lets call it teasing.  But he wasnt the best student either,  so it really wasnt that big of a deal to everybody else.  He also had his drivers license before everybody else and was popular because he could give classmates rides.

 

On St Paris Graham,  one thing they take advantage of is the open enrollment rules.  A lot of kids in neigboring school districs with wrestling skills transfer to St Paris school district.  If you want to see high schol redshirting and occurences of elite kids moving in to the district, look at Apple Valley, MN another public school.

[aoberlin]

  He also had his drivers license before everybody else and was popular because he could give classmates rides.

 

Yes yes I remember the days of getting my license before all my fellow classmates.  It was good time.

[MCKAJC]

Clearly the choice of the family. And we've all seen kids that are very good students held back as well. Which would seem to me to be a difficult thing to explain from an ethics standpoint. Your telling everyone that education comes first while your holding up two fingers. Many NCAA wrestlers that Ive heard from on the subject think that holding back in school for wrestling goes against many of the good lessons that wrestling teaches. 

[Fabio Jr.]

Graham much like Apple Valley are "public" schools....if you get the drift.

 

more of the angle I was going for hahah

[tyandky]

This actually happens alot...We thought about it in middle school but decided against it. Didn't think it was right to hold an honor roll student back because of a sport, even though he is one of the youngest in his grade. He is graduating at 17 years old and will be starting college right after he turns 18.

[Loki27]

Graham is a Public School Not relevant to the conversation but that knowledge makes them even more impressive

and a relatively small school for that matter. They would be a small 2a school in indiana.

[indyshred]

This actually happens alot...We thought about it in middle school but decided against it. Didn't think it was right to hold an honor roll student back because of a sport, even though he is one of the youngest in his grade. He is graduating at 17 years old and will be starting college right after he turns 18.

Very honorable, too many kids in the wrestling and football world do this. In 2 sports where physical strength play a big part, I consider it an unfair advantage. BUT the IHSAA allows it. Ive said it before on here years ago, SOME 17 yr olds are physically mature, MOST 18 yr olds are,  ALL 19 yr olds are. My oldest was in his second year of D1 college wrestling and he coulda still been in HS, it wouldnt have helped him be a better wrestler, but he woulda had a better bio. Some people will do anything to fill up the trophy shelf! If you graduate HS at 20 your focus prolly shoulda been elsewhere besides trying to be the big stud in the HS sports world. 

[Cosgrove]

hahaha Graham in ohio has a kid going to their school wrestling far them right now lives something like 3 in a half hours away takes some kind of online classes for their high school rest of the state turns their heads to it i think thats some bull.