Wrestle Backs

[rdrodd1]

This may be a dumb question but why don't we have wrestle backs?  It sure wouldn't take any longer than any other Saturday Invite and it seems to me that it would be the right thing to do. 

 

Just wondering.

[bharmon01]

Because the IHSAA said "How many times do you have to lose before you are out"

"We gave them to you at Sectionals, 4 out of Regionals to Semi-State and State(kinda) - what more do you wrestling coaches want?"

"Every other sport is one and done!"

[rdrodd1]

Because the IHSAA said "How many times do you have to lose before you are out"

"We gave them to you at Sectionals, 4 out of Regionals to Semi-State and State(kinda) - what more do you wrestling coaches want?"

"Every other sport is one and done!"

 

So are you saying that if the IHSAA had it their way, we would just take the winner out of each sectional and so forth to just get it over with????  I bet they were in the chess club or the french club.

[Butt Drag]

This may be a dumb question but why don't we have wrestle backs?  It sure wouldn't take any longer than any other Saturday Invite and it seems to me that it would be the right thing to do. 

 

Just wondering.

 

They already have wrestle backs - It's called don't lose in the first round of sectionals, regionals, semi-state. 

 

Not picking on you, just the cries for wrestle backs from parents today when as already pointed out, 4 get out of sectionals, 4 get out of regionals, and 4 get out of semi-state are rediculous.  Years back, the rules had two out of sectional, two out of regional, and two out of semi-state, which was expanded to 4 in the 80's.  This is from a guy who placed 3rd at regionals to guys who placed at state twice, before finally getting over the hump my Sr  year.

 

The quality of the regionals and the guys left out of semi-state was pretty darn good back in the 70's and 80's.  I remember one year, in our conference we had 3 good big guys that had close matches every year in the dual meets, and then again at conference.  2 of them came out of same sectional, before all 3 collided again at regionals.  The wrestler that had won the conference and had beaten the other two during the dual meets, lost at regionals and watched the other two go #2, and #3 at state.  You did not hear a peep out of that guy crying about wrestle back. 

 

 

 

 

[bharmon01]

Yes we were told many times the IHSAA tournament was to decide a champion.

Have a competition and win you move on, lose you are done.

In my day  the sectional started on a Thursday and ended on Saturday with only the champion moving on.

The regional was wrestled on Saturday with only the champion moving on.

State was an 8 man bracket at Southport - lose first round your out - semi-final winners wrestle for the state championship, losers third and fourth.

For a long time only the champion advanced through tournament to state.

I believe the coaches association (IHSWCA) helped change that over the years to what we have today.

A lot of young coaches today don't realize how far we really have come, if were not for our coaches association.

If you want to go backwards, then advance only the champion with no wrestle backs.

We think we have it tough today - try one and done of the past

I don't know why anyone would want to change our individual tournament, except for wrestle backs t he regional or semi-state. Not even class it.

It is the greatest show the IHSAA has, and they know it! They said many times they don't want to change the individual tournament - they just didn't like the team tournament.

I some what understand the argument to class the team tournament (if it still existed) but never change the individual tournament. Anyone who has been there on Friday Night knows it is the greatest show in High School Sports, even the IHSAA

 

[rdrodd1]

Yes we were told many times the IHSAA tournament was to decide a champion.

Have a competition and win you move on, lose you are done.

In my day  the sectional started on a Thursday and ended on Saturday with only the champion moving on.

The regional was wrestled on Saturday with only the champion moving on.

State was an 8 man bracket at Southport - lose first round your out - semi-final winners wrestle for the state championship, losers third and fourth.

For a long time only the champion advanced through tournament to state.

I believe the coaches association (IHSWCA) helped change that over the years to what we have today.

A lot of young coaches today don't realize how far we really have come, if were not for our coaches association.

If you want to go backwards, then advance only the champion with no wrestle backs.

We think we have it tough today - try one and done of the past

I don't know why anyone would want to change our individual tournament, except for wrestle backs t he regional or semi-state. Not even class it.

It is the greatest show the IHSAA has, and they know it! They said many times they don't want to change the individual tournament - they just didn't like the team tournament.

I some what understand the argument to class the team tournament (if it still existed) but never change the individual tournament. Anyone who has been there on Friday Night knows it is the greatest show in High School Sports, even the IHSAA

 

They already have wrestle backs - It's called don't lose in the first round of sectionals, regionals, semi-state.  

 

Not picking on you, just the cries for wrestle backs from parents today when as already pointed out, 4 get out of sectionals, 4 get out of regionals, and 4 get out of semi-state are rediculous.   Years back, the rules had two out of sectional, two out of regional, and two out of semi-state, which was expanded to 4 in the 80's.   This is from a guy who placed 3rd at regionals to guys who placed at state twice, before finally getting over the hump my Sr  year.

 

The quality of the regionals and the guys left out of semi-state was pretty darn good back in the 70's and 80's.  I remember one year, in our conference we had 3 good big guys that had close matches every year in the dual meets, and then again at conference.  2 of them came out of same sectional, before all 3 collided again at regionals.  The wrestler that had won the conference and had beaten the other two during the dual meets, lost at regionals and watched the other two go #2, and #3 at state.   You did not hear a peep out of that guy crying about wrestle back.  

 

 

 

 

 

I remember those days back in Mooresville when we had a great bunch of wrestlers (70's) (I told you guys that I'm old). We had guys like Todd Hacker, Eric Kribel, Paul and Nick Racic, David Delong, Mike Hawkins, Kevin Simmons, Brad Bailey, Ray Garner, Red Williams and who knows how many could have advanced further but wouldn't it have been fun to know???   As a fan though I just think that it would be more enjoyable to watch more wrestling and have more suspense thrown in to the equation.  Just looking back on my experience as a fan, I think that it would be more fun and excitement and fill more seats in the bleachers.    

[aoberlin]

In my day you used be able to wear garbage bags and stand on your heads before we weighed in.  Wait, who cares about my day or your day.  Back in the 70's and 80's wrestling wasn't near as good as it is now in Indiana, don't kid yourself on that part.   Wrestling has been a major part of my life for over 20 years and I have only seen Indiana kids get tougher and tougher. When you say stuff like "only 2 got out of Sectionals"  it is because the Sectionals were smaller.  Just listen to the kids accolades now that get under the lights.   Most have been wrestling since they could tie their shoes and do it pretty much year round and allot of them do it nationally.  Sorry but our sport has evolved and we need to evolve with it.

 

I really don't like it when wrestling is compared to other sports because I was always taught that there is no other sport like wrestling and I believe it to be true.  The only question there should be "are wrestle backs what are best for the kids?"  And I think that is an easy answer.  

 

Just because you may have gotten screwed over in the past because of no wrestle backs doesn't mean kids in the future should.

 

[Coach Miracle]

Every decision in wrestling should start with two questions. 1) Is this in the best interest of the kids? 2) Will this promote or hurt the sport of wrestling? obviously wrestle backs are in the best interest of the kid. I also believe that wrestle backs promote fairness and equality across the board.

 

There are three main variables that come into play for a kid on the way to state 1) performance 2) geographical location 3) The draw. Let's take a look at these and see how wrestle backs could help.

 

1) Performance: Obviously this should be the biggest variable of all but, sometimes it isn't. Here's an example....let's say a kid gets caught....legitimately caught....we have seen this from our top wrestlers in the country/world, our college stars to our Olympians, so I don't buy the comment "Don't get caught" if you've never been caught then you didn't wrestle many matches. In this instance doesn't wrestle backs seem to be the answer?

 

2) Geographical location: Huge impact on the road to state for any wrestler! You can have multiple ranked kids in Sectionals that feed into a Regional which gives that Regional a plethora of ranked kids and in fact causing wrestlers who deserve to go to Semi-state not to go. This obviously happens even more at the Semi-state level with loaded Regional feeders overloading a Semi-state. This is an unfortunate situation but, wouldn't it make it fairer to the wrestlers to make sure we send the very best top four by using wrestle backs?

 

3) Draw: We all know that performance should be the major factor but, unfortunately it is usually not. Most of the time it comes down to luck of the draw. I have seen it work both ways and have had kids get good and bad draws. Do we really want all of a kids work and sacrifice to come down to luck? Is that good for the kids? A Regional champion can draw a tougher ticket round match than someone who places third or fourth. Would wrestle backs help alleviate some of this?

 

We crown one state champion. We send 16 kids per weight to state. Shouldn't we as the adults be fighting to make sure we are giving our wrestlers the very best chance based on ability? Shouldn't performance be the largest factor on the road to state and not where you live or luck of  the draw?

[KarlHungus]

Every decision in wrestling should start with two questions. 1) Is this in the best interest of the kids? 2) Will this promote or hurt the sport of wrestling? obviously wrestle backs are in the best interest of the kid. I also believe that wrestle backs promote fairness and equality across the board.

 

There are three main variables that come into play for a kid on the way to state 1) performance 2) geographical location 3) The draw. Let's take a look at these and see how wrestle backs could help.

 

1) Performance: Obviously this should be the biggest variable of all but, sometimes it isn't. Here's an example....let's say a kid gets caught....legitimately caught....we have seen this from our top wrestlers in the country/world, our college stars to our Olympians, so I don't buy the comment "Don't get caught" if you've never been caught then you didn't wrestle many matches. In this instance doesn't wrestle backs seem to be the answer?

 

2) Geographical location: Huge impact on the road to state for any wrestler! You can have multiple ranked kids in Sectionals that feed into a Regional which gives that Regional a plethora of ranked kids and in fact causing wrestlers who deserve to go to Semi-state not to go. This obviously happens even more at the Semi-state level with loaded Regional feeders overloading a Semi-state. This is an unfortunate situation but, wouldn't it make it fairer to the wrestlers to make sure we send the very best top four by using wrestle backs?

 

3) Draw: We all know that performance should be the major factor but, unfortunately it is usually not. Most of the time it comes down to luck of the draw. I have seen it work both ways and have had kids get good and bad draws. Do we really want all of a kids work and sacrifice to come down to luck? Is that good for the kids? A Regional champion can draw a tougher ticket round match than someone who places third or fourth. Would wrestle backs help alleviate some of this?

 

We crown one state champion. We send 16 kids per weight to state. Shouldn't we as the adults be fighting to make sure we are giving our wrestlers the very best chance based on ability? Shouldn't performance be the largest factor on the road to state and not where you live or luck of  the draw?

 

Very good post.  The issue seems to be convincing the IHSAA what the vast majority of wrestling people know to be true.

[Smooth34]

I agree that your draw has a huge effect on advancement, but to play devils advocate, we have to draw the line somewhere.  Life isn't fair and this isnt little league where everyone gets a ribbon. 

[EvansvilleSpectator]

In my day you used be able to wear garbage bags and stand on your heads before we weighed in.  Wait, who cares about my day or your day.  Back in the 70's and 80's wrestling wasn't near as good as it is now in Indiana, don't kid yourself on that part.  Wrestling has been a major part of my life for over 20 years and I have only seen Indiana kids get tougher and tougher. When you say stuff like "only 2 got out of Sectionals"  it is because the Sectionals were smaller.  Just listen to the kids accolades now that get under the lights.  Most have been wrestling since they could tie their shoes and do it pretty much year round and allot of them do it nationally.  Sorry but our sport has evolved and we need to evolve with it.

 

I really don't like it when wrestling is compared to other sports because I was always taught that there is no other sport like wrestling and I believe it to be true.  The only question there should be "are wrestle backs what are best for the kids"  And I think that is an easy answer. 

 

Just because you may have gotten screwed over in the past because of no wrestle backs doesn't mean kids in the future should.

 

Amen. Best post of the day.

[1oldwrestler]

I agree that your draw has a huge effect on advancement, but to play devils advocate, we have to draw the line somewhere.  Life isn't fair and this isnt little league where everyone gets a ribbon. 

 

Smooth - I dont think comparing wrestlebacks to "every kid needs a participation ribbon" is necessarily accurate. Frankly, I think wrestlebacks make sure that the most deserving and best wrestlers advance along in  the state series and then, once at conseco, they make sure the placement underneath the champ is accurate.  I really don't understand why it's so hard for the ihsaa to implement or to see the value of wrestlebacks.  Illinois has been doing  it for decades.  The reasons I hear the ihsaa give for not doing wrestlebacks (the tourneys would last too long, how many times does a kid have to lose before being eliminated, etc) really hold absolutely no water.  Guess I can't understand why the ihswca cant bring the illinois bylaws as a means of support.

[aoberlin]

Every decision in wrestling should start with two questions. 1) Is this in the best interest of the kids? 2) Will this promote or hurt the sport of wrestling? obviously wrestle backs are in the best interest of the kid. I also believe that wrestle backs promote fairness and equality across the board.

 

There are three main variables that come into play for a kid on the way to state 1) performance 2) geographical location 3) The draw. Let's take a look at these and see how wrestle backs could help.

 

1) Performance: Obviously this should be the biggest variable of all but, sometimes it isn't. Here's an example....let's say a kid gets caught....legitimately caught....we have seen this from our top wrestlers in the country/world, our college stars to our Olympians, so I don't buy the comment "Don't get caught" if you've never been caught then you didn't wrestle many matches. In this instance doesn't wrestle backs seem to be the answer?

 

2) Geographical location: Huge impact on the road to state for any wrestler! You can have multiple ranked kids in Sectionals that feed into a Regional which gives that Regional a plethora of ranked kids and in fact causing wrestlers who deserve to go to Semi-state not to go. This obviously happens even more at the Semi-state level with loaded Regional feeders overloading a Semi-state. This is an unfortunate situation but, wouldn't it make it fairer to the wrestlers to make sure we send the very best top four by using wrestle backs?

 

3) Draw: We all know that performance should be the major factor but, unfortunately it is usually not. Most of the time it comes down to luck of the draw. I have seen it work both ways and have had kids get good and bad draws. Do we really want all of a kids work and sacrifice to come down to luck? Is that good for the kids? A Regional champion can draw a tougher ticket round match than someone who places third or fourth. Would wrestle backs help alleviate some of this?

 

We crown one state champion. We send 16 kids per weight to state. Shouldn't we as the adults be fighting to make sure we are giving our wrestlers the very best chance based on ability? Shouldn't performance be the largest factor on the road to state and not where you live or luck of  the draw?

 

Agreed.  Thanks for posting my thoughts. 

[Y2CJ41]

In my day you used be able to wear garbage bags and stand on your heads before we weighed in.  Wait, who cares about my day or your day.  Back in the 70's and 80's wrestling wasn't near as good as it is now in Indiana, don't kid yourself on that part.  Wrestling has been a major part of my life for over 20 years and I have only seen Indiana kids get tougher and tougher. When you say stuff like "only 2 got out of Sectionals"  it is because the Sectionals were smaller.  Just listen to the kids accolades now that get under the lights.  Most have been wrestling since they could tie their shoes and do it pretty much year round and allot of them do it nationally.  Sorry but our sport has evolved and we need to evolve with it.

 

I really don't like it when wrestling is compared to other sports because I was always taught that there is no other sport like wrestling and I believe it to be true.  The only question there should be "are wrestle backs what are best for the kids?"  And I think that is an easy answer. 

 

Just because you may have gotten screwed over in the past because of no wrestle backs doesn't mean kids in the future should.

 

In order to get something like wrestle-backs with the IHSAA we need to compare it to other sports. 

 

Such as...

in golf a kid isn't eliminated from the individual competition if the medalist is in his group

or

in track a kid isn't eliminated if he doesn't win his heat

[headlock83]

Back when wrestle backs were instituted at the sectional level, coaches should have spoken up and stated that this is the least effective tournament to have wrestle backs.  Let's face it, if you get beat early in sectionals chances are you have no business at semi state or state.  With only 8 wrestlers at regional and half advancing to semi state, I don't see a big need for them at regionals either.  Yes there are a few good kids caught in the first round of regionals that are descent and maybe deserve to go to semi state, but not too many.  It is most definitely needed at the semi state level.  Too many top 8 wrestlers get stopped in the ticket rounds at semi state.  Draw is everything.  120 at Merrillville  is the perfect example.  You have Fuqua and Garcia in the ticket round.  This is crap and needs to stop.  For years this has been an enormous problem and everyone knows it.  Then why doesn't someone step up to the plate and demand it to the IHSAA.  If fairness and "the kids" are at the center of focus for the IHSAA than it shouldn't be too hard to convince them.  Surely the powers at be in the IHSAA aren't that stupid that they can't see this rationale.  Man this is frustrating.

[1oldwrestler]

Coach Harmon, since it appears you are the most tenured coach who has been fighting the good fight for the longest period of time,  and willing to comment on the situation here on this site, I figure it would be wise to defer to your judgement (not kissing your butt because I have never met you and  have nothing to gain as I live in the opposite end off indiana) re the ihsaa and wrestlebacks.  I guess I cant get past the fact that a neighboring state has successfully had wrestlebacks for so long.  How has that been presented to the ihsaa?  Has it been presented to the ihsaa?  And if so, what is their excuse for ignoring an example off how a state h.s. Athletic association can have successful wrestlebacks?  Arrogance and not understanding a sport can only be used as excuse by the association for so long.

[MattM]

Wrestle-back do not add more butts in the seats and they add to the logistics of running an event.  Thus the IHSAA doesn't see move validity in entertaining the idea of adding more. It's not a matter of helping advance the best wrestler possible its a mater of producing little money and adding extra organizational issues.   Just look at the case of adding a 4th place qualifier to an event like semi-state.  That change put more butts to the seats and changes the flow of the event little.  It had little to do with giving an extra kids the designation of semi-state qualifier or giving another kid from each regional an extra shot (though the IHSAA will say they did it to help use with that).   Thus the IHSAA was very willing to look into that change to the tournament series.   Like several other things the wrestling community have pushed, you won't get much interest from the IHSAA on an idea unless you can prove it benefits their bottom line and at the same time take up little extra organization for those involved.  Heck look at all the stuff wrestling coaches do for their sport on a regular basis that the administration in the building has little to no clue about.  Or things you ask for that have to be explained to most administration in detail because they understand little about the sport.  Most (not all) of the administration have little clue about wrestling and for the most part wont spend to much time showing up to learn it.  So expecting them to jump on board with a new idea you are pitching just because you say its good for the sport and kids isn't going to get many to buy in very quickly.  It's going to take a much more prolonged effort and gained trust between the coaches and administration to really get the ball rolling and not many coaches and administrators around the state have that.  So we can't really expect the IHSAA to develop that with the wrestling community quickly either.  The idea of "doing it for the kids" is part of the IHSAA, ADs and Principals thought process, but since wresting isn't engrained as an important part of Indiana culture the motivation getting more money without putting in much more effort is just as much of a factor for most involved.  If we want anything accomplished we have to find way to prove to this group that the IHSWCA can put forward a well thought out plan that will guarantee they will continue to make as much if not more money and at the same time add little to no more work to these guys plates.  Until we can do that expect any idea to be shot down quickly at this point.

[DirtyDeedsWrastlin]

There is one problem...if a kid get caught in a head lock by a kid he should of beat and then has to to wrestle a #1 seed at smei state and they both should be going on

 

[MattM]

There is one problem...if a kid get caught in a head lock by a kid he should of beat and then has to to wrestle a #1 seed at smei state and they both should be going on

 

 

That's definitely true.  But in the IHSAA's mind it inconsequential who exactly goes on as long as someone does and there are fans that follow.  They look at it as no different than any other sport they offer where someone has a bad day, gets sick, has a bad start, etc and they are an individual or their team doesn't advance to the next year.  Say wrestlebacks help ensure the best kids are represented in the next round isn't enough it their eyes to allow it.  We prove that wrestle backs take up little extra organizing time, actually help improve the sports interest, and thus the bottom dollar it can bring in and that will be something the IHSAA will listen to.

[The Guru]

This is so simple, and so obvious, I'm not sure why it's even a discussion.

 

What is the real reason the IHSAA won't allow us to include full wrestlebacks? Has to be an ego/power struggle thing in my opinion. You can't plead ignorance or feign confusion about something so simple. That doesn't pass the red-face test for me. Are they just obnoxious, power-tripping jerks who want to control everything? Or are there legitimate reasons that we're all missing?

 

"How many times do you have to lose?" ... seems like passive-aggressive BS to me.

[Butt Drag]

Every decision in wrestling should start with two questions. 1) Is this in the best interest of the kids? 2) Will this promote or hurt the sport of wrestling? obviously wrestle backs are in the best interest of the kid. I also believe that wrestle backs promote fairness and equality across the board.

 

There are three main variables that come into play for a kid on the way to state 1) performance 2) geographical location 3) The draw. Let's take a look at these and see how wrestle backs could help.

 

1) Performance: Obviously this should be the biggest variable of all but, sometimes it isn't. Here's an example....let's say a kid gets caught....legitimately caught....we have seen this from our top wrestlers in the country/world, our college stars to our Olympians, so I don't buy the comment "Don't get caught" if you've never been caught then you didn't wrestle many matches. In this instance doesn't wrestle backs seem to be the answer?

 

2) Geographical location: Huge impact on the road to state for any wrestler! You can have multiple ranked kids in Sectionals that feed into a Regional which gives that Regional a plethora of ranked kids and in fact causing wrestlers who deserve to go to Semi-state not to go. This obviously happens even more at the Semi-state level with loaded Regional feeders overloading a Semi-state. This is an unfortunate situation but, wouldn't it make it fairer to the wrestlers to make sure we send the very best top four by using wrestle backs?

 

3) Draw: We all know that performance should be the major factor but, unfortunately it is usually not. Most of the time it comes down to luck of the draw. I have seen it work both ways and have had kids get good and bad draws. Do we really want all of a kids work and sacrifice to come down to luck? Is that good for the kids? A Regional champion can draw a tougher ticket round match than someone who places third or fourth. Would wrestle backs help alleviate some of this?

 

We crown one state champion. We send 16 kids per weight to state. Shouldn't we as the adults be fighting to make sure we are giving our wrestlers the very best chance based on ability? Shouldn't performance be the largest factor on the road to state and not where you live or luck of  the draw?

 

You make a fine argument, and I agree with and respect some of what you say, and an important goal should be keeping more kids engaged.

 

1.  If is about keeping kids engaged, where do you put the time and resources then? Who determines, what is fair to accomplish that?  If it's about the kids, then one could argue for a Class System, or others might say, "hey not fair, we should have a longer Freshman &

Junior-Varsity tourney season, up to say regionals".  Or what about the wrestler who is stuck behind really good teammates and could possibly qualify if he transfered to some other school, does he deserve a shot at this fairness? 

 

 

2.  Logistically though, for semi-state could you imagine the back log if some of these locations where you now added possibly two more rounds?

 

You could seed SS to make attempt to have the regional with toughest 4th to match up against the easiest 1st, that could work in many cases, but then you would always have someone not happy when seedings are not objective.    While this should be done to some level at the State Tourney where you could have an overview of consistency in the seeding process, it is a slippery slope when you start including 16 regionals and 4 semi-states trying to do this consistently and 'fairly'.  And let's face it, you would have some collusion or some coaches looking to screw other teams or wrestlers to help their own kid.

 

3.  Equally important are goals like creating better and more well rounded student athletes, teaching kids about setting goals and working to them, "fair-play", sportsmanship, and being part of a team.  However, the sport of wrestling offers that unique aspect that no matter the draw, or opponent, the accountability is all on you, and you live with the consequences.  That accountability and potential finality is what makes kids work harder, and that intensity is what makes the early matches at Sectional, Regional, Semi-State, and State important and exciting. 

 

It's why they call a lesser skilled or experienced wrestler beating a better wrestler  an UPSET,,  not an "my bad, I am better than you, but I got caught, so let's have a do-over" .  We may as well ask Jeff Blatnik give back his gold medal to Alexander Karelin.

 

Kids learn through success and failure, that a) life is not fair, and you have to be ready for each match. How many times do we read about a kid that comes back the next year and improves says "losing that xx match last year and watching my teammates really put a fire under my ass and why I am here today"?

 

It then seems we are more worried with picking the winners and the losers, and not letting the results on the mat decide the outcome.  If so, let's hand out soccer trophy's and SQ patches to everyone then. 

 

Is that what the sport of wrestling is about ?  I thought it was about equal opportunity, not equal outcome.  Other than bad officials, wrestling is about as fair a sport as you can get.  Is it fair that an opponent is stronger than me, is it fair that another guy is good at takedown to my weak side?  Is it fair that because my opponent won a coin flip got first choice and was able to tire me out for the 3rd period because he rode me like a rented mule?  Is it fair some guys missed qualifying because they lost in 3 OT?

 

Motivated kids, whether they win or lose, will rise to those challenges and learn a important life lesson regardless - Life is not fair, and most of the lessons you need to get in wrestling are because of your dedication every day in practice, the character and toughness you build, and will have nothing to do with the chance that you were some how robbed of the opportunity to participate in a regional wrestle-back.

[maligned]

It's definitely not a matter of time for the IHSAA.

 

When there were 12 per class at semi-state, having wrestle-backs for only the final 8 would have added a whopping one hour to the tournaments (1st rd wrestlebacks simultaneous with semi's; 2nd rd on 4 mats would have taken 1 hour).  Now, with 16 kids per class, we added 2 hours compared to before.  It's all about money (more parents' butts in the seats).  They were willing to suddenly give the 4th place regional guys a "second chance" when they'd argued for years that there shouldn't be second chances.  We didn't even ask for it.  They just announced it and did it.  It would have been WAY better for the integrity of competition if they'd given us simple wrestle-backs. 

[Pug]

I don't think Jeff Blatnick beat Alexander Karelin.....but I get your point.

[KarlHungus]

I don't think Jeff Blatnick beat Alexander Karelin.....but I get your point.

 

Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor.....Hell NO!!!

[aoberlin]

This is what I read.

 

Blah Blah Blah

 

Motivated kids, whether they win or lose, will rise to those challenges and learn a important life lesson regardless - Life is not fair,

 

I agree totally with life is not fair.

 

The bottom line is every good wrestling tournament gives a wrestler a chance to wrestle back for 3rd and 4th.  Why should our State Tournament be different?  Our kids will have plenty of opportunities to learn Life is not fair,  I would prefer it is learned somewhere else besides taking away a kids opportunity to participate in the State Tournament.

 

I also agree with the statement of "Take away a kids opportunity to fail and you take away his ability to succeed"  Which means to me not everyone deserves a medal.  But I also think we should not set our kids up for failure.