Y2CJ41 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I just watched this video on Geordan Speiller where he says he took an injury time-out to catch his breath. What do you think of this? Is this right or should the coach or ref do something about it? Interview http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/241160-Cougar-Invitational/video/527667-Geordan-Speiller Match http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/241160-Cougar-Invitational/video/526431-160-lbs-finals-Clark-Glass-Brandon-vs-Geordan-Speiler-Pine-Castle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Without a doubt this should not be allowed. I've seen it many times in close matches where one kid has great cardio and the other doesn't so the "I need a hit from my inhaler" time out comes up along with about a 2 minute "catch my breath" break. I think if a kid has a doctor prescribed inhaler then that has to be presented to the ref at weigh ins. And if that kid needs a break because of breathing issues (like you would see with an asthma attack), then by all means that would be acceptable. If you don't have one, then you can't use this exuse. If you're so tired that you can't get up off the mat then the ref should have the authority to stop the match instead of allowing you a break. But this faking it stuff is going to far. It's very obvious when it's happening. If you have no reason other than bad cardio, then you either wrestle or quit and the match goes to the other kid. I've seen a coach use an inhaler on 3 kids in one dual and it was the same inhaler each time! He would pull it out of his pocket. It's a refs duty to keep the match going with no breaks but I also realize that it's a refs duty to be safe and not make a kid wrestle when he's about to have a stroke so where does the legal side of this come into play? Bottom line is that you need to get in shape and be ready to go 6 minutes. If you can't, then you should lose by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 In the NCAA they have a new rule this year that after your first injury time-out the other person has choice of position. I highly doubt this guy would have done that if that rule was in place in high school. I have only seen a little bit of college wrestling so far this year, but already notice a lot less injury time-outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charger wrestling dad Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Watch this happen all the time, and it has for years. Nothing more frustrating then being in a tight match and starting to gain some ground only to have a "lung injury" time out. Everyone can see what is going on, it's not hard to see. But watch it happen other ways like when a wrestler gets a small lead then rides for a full two minutes, never coming off the hips, or doing more then pushing on one side then to other but not really trying to turn your opponet. The side part about that it's usually the bottom man who get the call for stalling. But as long as the coaches don't train their wrestlers and let them get away with it, it will continue to happen. As for putting in the officials hand to determine whether the wrestler is really having difficulty breathing from asthma or just needs to get a break is not fair to them. I work as a paramedic and have responded to many difficulty breathing calls that weren't, and all of my 20+ years of medical training tells me they are full of it, I won't tell someone that they are not having difficulty breathing and will treat them as if the are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachM Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I have talked to officials about this several times and have always heard the same thing, if a wrestler asks for injury time they have to give it. Kids know this and use it to their advantage. It works pretty much the same as kids screaming to get off their backs, anyone would give up an extra point to not get pinned, and unfortunately I don't see either situation stopping anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 In the NCAA they have a new rule this year that after your first injury time-out the other person has choice of position. I highly doubt this guy would have done that if that rule was in place in high school. I have only seen a little bit of college wrestling so far this year, but already notice a lot less injury time-outs. That is in fact the rule in high school and has been for 10 or more years. See page 41 of the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Note the word first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Note the word first I see. I miss read it to be after the you have already taken one injury timeout that after another one the other guy got his choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Without a doubt this should not be allowed. I've seen it many times in close matches where one kid has great cardio and the other doesn't so the "I need a hit from my inhaler" time out comes up along with about a 2 minute "catch my breath" break. I think if a kid has a doctor prescribed inhaler then that has to be presented to the ref at weigh ins. And if that kid needs a break because of breathing issues (like you would see with an asthma attack), then by all means that would be acceptable. If you don't have one, then you can't use this exuse. If you're so tired that you can't get up off the mat then the ref should have the authority to stop the match instead of allowing you a break. But this faking it stuff is going to far. It's very obvious when it's happening. If you have no reason other than bad cardio, then you either wrestle or quit and the match goes to the other kid. I've seen a coach use an inhaler on 3 kids in one dual and it was the same inhaler each time! He would pull it out of his pocket. It's a refs duty to keep the match going with no breaks but I also realize that it's a refs duty to be safe and not make a kid wrestle when he's about to have a stroke so where does the legal side of this come into play? Bottom line is that you need to get in shape and be ready to go 6 minutes. If you can't, then you should lose by default. Agreed and well said. I think that the ref has to give the timeout and if a Doctors note cannot be presented at the time of an inhaler then the kid should be disqualified or points should be give to the other kid. If the kid just wants a breather and calls injury for it the ref has to give it because there could actually be something wrong with the kid but 1 point should be give to the other kid if not 2 points. I have seen it already a few times this year and I know a team that used to be notorious for getting out the inhaler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 This won mishawaka their dual vs Perry i think it was 08 the year they won it with forte vs hudgins. Went into OT and he coincidently got a "cramp" haha Great move cause it was the only way Forte wins as hudgins took him down 3 times in the last 45 secs. to tie it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~B~DOGG~SMASH~ Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I like the college rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 It works pretty much the same as kids screaming to get off their backs, anyone would give up an extra point to not get pinned, and unfortunately I don't see either situation stopping anytime soon. When i refed back in the 90's and a kid would be on his back screaming he couldnt breathe i would calmly tell him that if he could talk he could breathe. Never had a kid passout in that situation.....couple died, but you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I can't speak for all referees, but I will offer my opinion.....I've never been to bashful about that. When this situation occurs, and sadly it does, there really is nothing the referee can do. Most of the time not only do I know the kid is taking a break (or worse a dive), the other kid knows, both coaches know it, heck even the kid's grandma knows it. The only comment I will make about this is that ethics are first taught in the home and secondly in the wrestling room. Now a story... When I was still in Ohio I was working a dual meet between two schools with good traditions and programs. During one match the wrestlers went out of bounds and upon returning one wrestler looked up at the scoreboard and immediately fell down screaming like someone shot him and clutching his knee. Now this was not a program where kids did this nor were they known for anything but good sportsmanship. I rush over to the kid to see what was going with him and his coach comes out on the mat with a very angry look on his face. The conversation went like this... Me: Bad knee? Coach: No, bad heart...he doesn't have one. Coach to wrestler: If you aren't in the center of the mat in 2 seconds I will default the match. The kid jumped straight up in the air and in two hops was on the line ready to go. The coach had one more parting comment to me "If they go out of bounds again and you are back in the center before he is we default." We went out of bounds one more time and the kid almost knocked me down beating me back to the center. I miss the good old days. Tom Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Agreed and well said. I think that the ref has to give the timeout and if a Doctors note cannot be presented at the time of an inhaler then the kid should be disqualified or points should be give to the other kid. If the kid just wants a breather and calls injury for it the ref has to give it because there could actually be something wrong with the kid but 1 point should be give to the other kid if not 2 points. I have seen it already a few times this year and I know a team that used to be notorious for getting out the inhaler. A doctors note really is not needed. The inhaler is something that is proscribed to them just like any other medication by the doctor and all the kids I have coached that had a inhaler had a label on the inhaler just like a when you get pills. It will have their name on it and the doctor who prescribed it and the name of the medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 A doctors not really is not needed. The inhaler is something that is proscribed to them just like any other medication by the doctor and all the kids I have coached that had a inhaler had a label on the inhaler just like a when you get pills. It will have their name on it and the doctor who prescribed it and the name of the medication. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior140 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It's almost sad to say if a kid has a medical condition maybe he should not be wrestling at all. I do know how some gyms are, but not all. Wrestling in a match is the best part of the day. Practices were ten times tougher than any other meet I competed in. If a kid can practice he should be able to wrestle. It's seems in the heat of battle, some kids develop shortness of breath. I'm not going to knock any kids, but common sense, would make you wonder if you go see a doctor and get and inhaler or have any medical conditions. Should you really be wrestling?? Wrestling is one of the most brutal cardiovascular endeavorments, out of all sports in highschool. I see to many red flags. Something happens to him on the mat. The first thing that will be said is how did he get clearance.. If you can practice for three hours a day. I think you can wrestle for six minutes. Sometimes we all have to face the music, just some sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Just implement the NCAA rule....if the kids legitmetly hurt he can get his help otherwise u lose your advantage or give the opponent advantage i love the new rule, as a big goal in my wrestling matches is to just be in phenomenal shape and break the kid the lack of free injury time makes that strategy work way better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gold Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I can think of at least two or three wrestlers I know that have asthma. Two of the three are ranked in the top 5 state rankings. I think there is a differece between somebody just wanting to catch there breath and somebody who has asthma.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I like the college rule! The college rule is nice, but it sucks that a twisted ankle (something that legitimately kills for a minute but often wouldn't end a match) or an accidental head-buster from simultaneous shots could decide a close match when the one kid has to take a real timeout--then start on top instead of bottom or neutral. What if first injury time choice was limited to only top or neutral unless the non-injured kid was already on bottom? Or what if this rule was only implemented in the third period and overtime periods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I can think of at least two or three wrestlers I know that have asthma. Two of the three are ranked in the top 5 state rankings. I think there is a differece between somebody just wanting to catch there breath and somebody who has asthma.. I totally agree. So if you have asthma and have to stop 10 times during the match to use your inhaler I don't think that is bad....in fact I applaud the kids who go out there and still compete with this nasty condition. I just hate when you see the opposite and have kids and coaches who will basically cheat to win. Is that teaching the right thing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Cloud Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I like the idea of having a wrestler be required to show his inhaler with a medical form during weigh-ins. If this is not done, the wrestler cannot have a time-out and the match simply ends. This would avoid the "team inhaler" problem. I am not in favor of giving choice to opposing wrestler after first injury timeout. These are high school kids and they do occasionally get hurt and need to stop. To get this done would need a NFHS rule change. Do those posting here support this? Dave Cloud NFHS Rules Committee Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 If you would require a form to prove they can use an inhaler, the kids will still use the injury time for a lung time-out just without the inhaler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbulldog152 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Didn't the double injury time out affect acould matches at state this past year? I believe this happened in the Lyde-Manning match and the Goldman-Stevenson match I believe. I could be wrong. I'm not say there were faked injuries I'm just saying that there was a situation where the other guy got the choise after the 2nd injury time out and was a factor in the result of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Didn't the double injury time out affect acould matches at state this past year? I believe this happened in the Lyde-Manning match and the Goldman-Stevenson match I believe. I could be wrong. I'm not say there were faked injuries I'm just saying that there was a situation where the other guy got the choise after the 2nd injury time out and was a factor in the result of the match. You are correct, both times it cost the wrestler the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Humble Jr. Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I have never seen the college rule applied in high school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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