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Reasons for a class system for team state


youngone

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309 Schools competed this year in wrestling this year.

only 8 participate in the team state finals

I propose 2 classes

Here is Why

You allow 8 more teams media exposure

IHSAA makes more money

More fans of more schools will get exposed to quality wrestling

It will get smaller schools more excited about wrestling raising number of participants

It is possible to do it with out interupting the indivual tourney

 

Here is how

Split the schools in half        

D2 small schools 154                            D1  Big schools 155                      

Team Sectionals                154 Schools 16 Sectional, 1o teams at 10 Sectionals, 9 teams at 6 Sectionals

D1  Big schools 155                     

Team Sectionals                155 Schools 16 Sectional, 1o teams at 11 Sectionals, 9 teams at 5 Sectionals

Each Sectional would look like this

Start 11 days before sectionals

Seed meeting on Monday

Dual Meet format

10 team format                                                                                                                          9 Teams

Tue                                                                  Thur @ Pre determined Location               Tue                                                            Thur @ Predetermined Location

A 10v8, EWinner A v.1 @1 Home          Winner E v. Winner B                                A8v.9, E Winner A v.1@1 Home     Winner E v. Winner B

B 4v5 @4 Home                                             Winner F v. Winner C                              B4v.5@4 Home                                      Winner C v. Winner D

C3v6 @3 Home                                                    Winners Then Compete                     C3v.6@3 Home                                            Winners then Compete

D 7v9, F Winner D v.2 @ 2 Home                                                                                    D7v.2@ 2Home

-The next week is dead for Indivual Sectionals-

Top 2 Teams Advance

The Wed. After Ind Sectionals

8 Regionals

Winner Sectional A v. Runner Up B

Winner Sectonal B v. Runner Up of A

Winners competer

The Following Wed. Top two Per Regional Advavnce to 4 Semi States

Winner Regional A v. Runner Up Regional B

Winner B v. Runner Up A

Winners Compete

Top Two Advance to an 8 team State Championship where D1 and D2 will be held at the same location the Sat after Individual State

No change to the individual tournament at all

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With class wrestling one thing that never comes up is the "balkanization" that would happen to the wrestling community.  I don't like the idea of segregating teams and having to pay attention to who is in what class, etc.  As for 8 teams getting more "media exposure" - is it earned?  This media exposure comes AT THE EXPENSE of the top eight who have earned it.  Put differently, the top 8 at Team State have EARNED the undivided attention of ALL wrestling fans in the State of Indiana, and all real fans of wrestling would be at ONE SITE on that weekend at Center Grove.  Yes, I'm saying that all those "fans" who stay home because they don't have a kid/team competing aren't real fans - they're "homers."

 

The segregating of schools by class would create a new issue for small school State.  Every year the final would be MD vs. whoever.  How boring would that be?  Mater Dei may be down the last couple of years but they would still score 60+ in a dual against any small school team in the state, at least for awhile.  Depending on the cutoff, only a Yorktown could compete with MD.  However, Yorktown is a real team with a great tradition.  This weekend they get to go after Castle and Mishawaka.  Would they want it any other way?  So, if Yorktown is small enough to meet the cutoff they wrestle MD every year, year in and year out for a meaningless small school state title.  If they're above the cutoff they have the opportunity to take on real competition while no one will care what MD does - not even their fans.  I imagine that in that event MD will continue to decline and they will never be back. 

 

A divided team state series would just create new dominant team scenarios.  In the Southland (without MD) it would be Castle and Evansville Reitz for the team regional every year.

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If they class wrestling, we can then start threads like they do in football.  They argue about the unfair advantage of Catholic schools and not the size of schools.   Have you ever looked at what the percentage of Catholic schools that win the 1A thru 4A state football championships?

 

 

 

 

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With class wrestling one thing that never comes up is the "balkanization" that would happen to the wrestling community.  I don't like the idea of segregating teams and having to pay attention to who is in what class, etc.  As for 8 teams getting more "media exposure" - is it earned?  This media exposure comes AT THE EXPENSE of the top eight who have earned it.  Put differently, the top 8 at Team State have EARNED the undivided attention of ALL wrestling fans in the State of Indiana, and all real fans of wrestling would be at ONE SITE on that weekend at Center Grove.  Yes, I'm saying that all those "fans" who stay home because they don't have a kid/team competing aren't real fans - they're "homers."

 

The segregating of schools by class would create a new issue for small school State.  Every year the final would be MD vs. whoever.  How boring would that be?  Mater Dei may be down the last couple of years but they would still score 60+ in a dual against any small school team in the state, at least for awhile.  Depending on the cutoff, only a Yorktown could compete with MD.  However, Yorktown is a real team with a great tradition.  This weekend they get to go after Castle and Mishawaka.  Would they want it any other way?  So, if Yorktown is small enough to meet the cutoff they wrestle MD every year, year in and year out for a meaningless small school state title.  If they're above the cutoff they have the opportunity to take on real competition while no one will care what MD does - not even their fans.  I imagine that in that event MD will continue to decline and they will never be back. 

 

A divided team state series would just create new dominant team scenarios.  In the Southland (without MD) it would be Castle and Evansville Reitz for the team regional every year.

I agree, the small schools that would make it wouldn't earn it because it would be an easier route for them.  Those teams and coaches wouldn't have to work as  hard as the other schools to make it to state.  Then we would just be letting a bunch of teams and kids to state that didn't work hard and we don't want that, do we?

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If they class wrestling, we can then start threads like they do in football.  They argue about the unfair advantage of Catholic schools and not the size of schools.   Have you ever looked at what the percentage of Catholic schools that win the 1A thru 4A state football championships?

 

Another great point!  We definitely don't want posts with hypothetical match-ups or even people complaining about parochial and private schools.  I always try to eliminate posts with hypothetical match-ups on here because they are worthless.

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The IHSAA will not make a whole new structure for the sport of wrestling.  We will have to go to either a four or five class system.  Also if we deem the team side more important they will force an individual side change.  Four or five class individual tournement is an absolute joke for all the wrestlers.  Im not to worried about changing the structure of the sport though, they can't even get wrestle backs through how in the heck do they expect to get the whole system switched.  Its a dumb topic to even post cause its not going to happen and if it ever does it will be classed for both the team and individual in a 4 or 5 class system.

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Why not just give every team a trophy then?  There is only one team that works hard and that is the one with the blue ribbons, all others don't work hard or don't put enough time into wrestling in the offseason. 

I agree.  MD is not there this year because they didn't work hard enough.  They deserve no ribbon and no recognition for that.
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Y2,

 

Small Schools are at a significant disadvantage. Some guy who used to post on here had very good statistical info to back up these claims. It's not just about the champion, it's about the kids. I vote every pariticpant is awarded a trophy

 

Well tell me who that is and I will ban his democratic, socialistic butt right now!  Down with class wrestling and those idiots that support it.  We only want a true champion!  If you aren't the best there is a reason for it, you SUCK!

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If you aren't the best there is a reason for it, you SUCK!

 

Well way to go an steal the quote we were going to put on the back of our team shirts next year.  Thats two years in a row someone's taken my shirt design idea.

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The following are all products of a class wrestling state, tell me if they look upset or down because they were not the "true" state champion.

 

wrestling_tom_brinton.jpg

 

width=314 height=500http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/athletics/wall-of-fame/img/wrestling_jeff_long.jpg[/img]

 

width=310 height=500http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/athletics/wall-of-fame/img/wrestling_ralph_graham.jpg[/img]

 

width=398 height=500http://www.norwalkreflector.com/content/articles/2009/03/09/front/doc49b52c7683bf0931446020.jpg[/img]

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I will say it again...Why not just award 309 Team State Champion Trophys?

 

I mean lets face it, there will be 308 dejected teams and we just can't have that!   I mean what will these kids do if they are not all champions?

 

 

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I will say it again...Why not just award 309 Team State Champion Trophys?

 

I mean lets face it, there will be 308 dejected teams and we just can't have that!   I mean what will these kids do if they are not all champions?

 

 

Wow, BlueBolt and I agree on something.  The apocolypse is upon us.( actually I agree with the Castle fans and coaches on several subjects.)
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There is a couple things that bother me about dividing into classes. The first is this would benefit and hinder the bubble teams. It would benefit the team that is on the high end of the cutoff and theoretically make them the BIG school in the division. Also it would make the other side be the small school! So a team with roughly 1200 students would be small compared to the big 3000 schools! Another thing is why would it be fair to divide into team class and not individual? If it is unfair for the small schools in the team competiton then it sure has to be worse for them individually? This so called big schools didn't become good overnight or because they are big. It's taken some of them almost 10+ years to become mainstays at the top.

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Wow, BlueBolt and I agree on something.  The apocolypse is upon us.( actually I agree with the Castle fans and coaches on several subjects.)

 

Now don't come over here trying to be all friendly to score tickets to team state this year...  ;D

 

 

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i would go along with a two class system for the team state.  for the team format this would be fair and make sense.  

 

as far as the individual state tournament, i think that we need to acknowledge that wrestling is essentially an individual sport.  at the end of it all, we want to know who is THE best wrestler at each weight class.  

 

with a watered-down tournament we will not get this result and we will be like college football fans, forever debating who is the best.  

 

 

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Worst idea ever.  I have argued this idea many times.  As a former state champion, i do not feel that i would have wrestled the best if i was wrestling in a class system.  I would have always been thinking, what if that guy from the smaller school was better then me. 

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