BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Keep your head up Tyler. You made your school and your family proud. Valiant effort in the finals too against one of the states finest. I look forward to watching you take your place on the top of the podium soon. Hopefully this will be a distant memory by then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcd Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Willis is a young sophomore (still 15). He has a reputation for being humble, courteous, and respectful. He honors the sport of wrestling by choosing to participate in it outside of his football season. I know enough about Tyler Willis to know that, if the tables had been turned, and ? --if Willis had continued a potentially dangerous move well beyond the referee?s whistle, and --if, by doing so, Willis had caused another wrestler to suffer a significant physical injury the day that wrestler was expected to compete for the state championship, and --if his injured opponent had been told by the IHSAA doctor that he had a dislocated shoulder and must not continue the match, then ? Tyler Willis would have gracefully lost as his opponent?s hand had been raised. He would have been disappointed, and you would have seen it on his face, but he would have been a model of composure for the young wrestlers in the stands. He would not have run out of the arena in a childish fit. He would not have taunted the injured wrestler as they walked to the podium. He would have been very concerned, and sorry, about any unintentional physical injury he had caused to a fellow wrestling comrade on such an important day. What scares me, really scares me, is that I?m reading so much hatred and divisiveness that I am afraid that, if the situation had truly been reversed, and it was Willis who had caused injury to Vlahos, and Willis had been determined the loser, Willis still would have been booed. Cathedral is a school made up of human beings who are no different from the rest of us. The reasons some parents choose a parochial school are many, complex, and private. Saturday night at Conseco, I witnessed Willis?s family bringing an elderly, wheelchair-bound man to the evening round. I presumed it was his grandfather. My heart aches for this elderly man, who witnessed cruel, unjust outbursts against his grandson. It is some consolation that the grandfather also saw his grandson?s maturity and composure, and must know in his heart that the most important life lessons have been passed on and will endure. Great post. You find a little bit about someones character when they win, and everything when they lose...both Willis and vlahos lost their last match, and I guess their true character showed on the podium...I don't know either kid, but to do that in front of that many people is wrong. vlahos could have been the biggest pissed off i-got-screwed guy ever in the locker room and lots of people wouldve understood, but when youre on that podium ur supposed to act graciously... Everyone should feel bad for vlahos, but I don't understand why that has to coupled with hostility and disrespect for a kid who obviously was not the one making the decision in the semis. It's sad that one of indianas greatest capturing his 3rd titile is being overshadowed by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indysportsfan Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I'll be honest, he's not a child. He's a senior in high school and 18 or close to turning 18. He's no longer a child. He's a man and anyone this age needs to start acting like it. I call him a child because he portrayed childish behaviors. Some of us went into the service at the young age of 18 and in the process became a man. There are other 18 year old kids who have never had to work, take on responsibility or learn how to behave. Your age doesn't make you a man because we all mature at different levels in our life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yeah go ahead and call everyone idiots. From what I have heard the majority of the stadium was booing. I guess the majority of the people there are all idiots also. I guess the majority of fans thought he was not injured. They all must be retarded. Give me a break. The kid looked fine in the finals. His coaches may have told him to take a dive, but it is still an unethical move on his teams part. If you care about the kids safety there is no way if he were hurt that he should have wrestled in the finals. Truth is it was a flop and everyone knows it. I am sorry but the Vlahos kid didn't deserve to be tossed from the finals because Cathedral decided to take a dive in high school wrestling. I am not blaming Willis because I did not see if it were him or his coaches who made the decision, but whoever it was took away from one young mans dreams. Another thing I want to know is how did McMurray like being the crowd favorite. He can not be use to that and he handled himself in his typically arrogant way. Congrats to him riding one handed for the last 20 seconds of the match. He again showed why he was so hated in the first place. I must say i Like the kids swagger though. Congrats.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle4awin Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 tyler willis in no way deserves to be booed. my only problem is i keep going back to the saying "you sleep with the dogs you get the fleas." if you put your self or your parents put you in a program that has coaches who act the way cathedrals do and you put yourself at risk for people to treat you the way they did tyler last night. wheres the integrity for the coaches? dont you say tylers not goin to be 100 percent in the finals and has 2 more years, vlahos is a senior and didnt do it intentially so lets injury default and not put our kid in this situation. i.e.: LC's coaching staff at the pendleton regional in the mason berryman situation. (and mason punched the LC kid and got DQ'd with 15 seconds left in the 3rd) the LC coaches knew there kid had time and wasnt going to win and said let him(berryman) continue. its NOT tylers fault its the continuous bad actions of the cathedral COACHING staff the brought on the result of last night. what exactly did the Cathedral coaches do? The best kid was on top the podium last night, let him enjoy his victory - he deserved it. Willis was the 2nd best kid all year according to Rankings Guy so he too was in his rightful place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rla614 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I was there and I can guarantee he wasn't chilling on the mat. The only reason he got up was because the injury time was over and they were forced to make a decision. You don't get all day to lay there. That is why they have injury time. You could tell he was in serious pain. Vlahos ran an ILLEGAL move and got DQ'ed. I don't feel bad for the way things played out. It doesn't matter if he didn't intend to hurt him, it only matters that he did. I didn't stay for the finals but if Vlahos really did run his mouth during the podium ceremony, he needs to grow up. He wasn't going to beat McMurray anyway. Hello where have you been? First off it wasn't an illegal move that put him out but a referees call of agressive wrestling. Isn't that what you get at the state finals? The fact that Cathedrals coach wouldn't let him continue because he knew he was gonna loose.Where was there a doctor? Looked like the usual trainers to me. Dr Who? My rear. Coach McGinley is no doctor. And telling someone not to talk to you is not asking too much. You should have been a little closer. Or maybe attended the awards ceremony. Apparently you don't know how the Willis mother treats her sons opponents. Shes a real class act too. Fits right in there at Cathedral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 There is no such rule in the rule book about "aggressive wrestling." The key lock move is illegal if you pull the arm away from the body. It was an ILLEGAL MOVE, not "aggressive wrestling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefthanded Headlock Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Vlahos was kicked out of Fargo last year for doing this exact same move. Fleeger taught it to him if that tells you anything. It's used to intentionally hurt your opponent so he goes over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Vlahos was not kicked out of Fargo last year, but he did use the move and injured an opponent during one of the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getstuck Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 he should have forfeit the finals match.. as a fan thats not what i wanna see at all.. but if ur hurt that bad.. u shouldn't wrestle.. and im reading some saying there was doctors and some saying there wasn't.. bottom line.. they don't run the show.. its you or ur coaches call at the end of the day.. and by the way things panned out though. i think vlahos would have won that match.. after seeing him and reese wrestle and then reese beating lafever 11-0.. willis beat lefever by like one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finderskeepers Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I think, despite many, many reports from people familiar with the situation, the angry poster honestly believes that it was the Cathedral coaches who told Tyler Willis that he should not wrestle, so that he might be assured of the win. To a one, everyone familiar with matside evaluation has stated that it was the IHSAA doctor who flat-out told Willis he must not finish the match with an acutely dislocated shoulder. Liability-wise, I can't see any coach overruling a doctor by telling a wrestler in Willis's situation to finish a match, when a specialist has told the wrestler he must stop. The legal risk would be huge. I can't even see the IHSAA condoning it. It is clear that the angry poster has issues that go deeper than this. Most of us experienced with these type of people have learned that there are times we just need to count to ten and walk away. This is one of those times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommaMac Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 First of all I want to say I feel sorry for what has happened to both these young men. First a senior being dq and then the harrasssment the sophmore has had to endure. But I can tell you people who say Willis was "faking" because he was able to show up at the finals dont have a clue. Willis did what most wrestlers going for a title would do and show up for the finals. I remember last year at the DAC Sean suffered the same injury in the semis but was able to wrestle in the finals. Was he in pain? Oh yea but he is a wrestler and you suck it up and go on. Over the past 4 years Sean has also had to endure the negative comments made by people on this message board. I will have to say some were right on track and helped him grow up and take fault for his wrong doing but others were down right hurtful. These athletes deserve some respect, we may not always agree with them but we are suppose to be the adults that these kids learn from. So how do you expect these kids to react when adults are bashing and booing them? Tyler hopefully you will take the comments (both positive and negative) for what they are worth and learn how to be the better man. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
army197 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Just a lil thing that was not macs momma saying break the arm and things like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 IN MAT GUY- I was thinking the same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getstuck Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 its all about the draw.. and i broke my hand in a match the doctor told me not to wrestle.. wrong. i default, and my team loses.. and actually it was against cathedral.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainer Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I think, despite many, many reports from people familiar with the situation, the angry poster honestly believes that it was the Cathedral coaches who told Tyler Willis that he should not wrestle, so that he might be assured of the win. To a one, everyone familiar with matside evaluation has stated that it was the IHSAA doctor who flat-out told Willis he must not finish the match with an acutely dislocated shoulder. Liability-wise, I can't see any coach overruling a doctor by telling a wrestler in Willis's situation to finish a match, when a specialist has told the wrestler he must stop. The legal risk would be huge. I can't even see the IHSAA condoning it. It is clear that the angry poster has issues that go deeper than this. Most of us experienced with these type of people have learned that there are times we just need to count to ten and walk away. This is one of those times. I am an athletic trainer and I wrestled in high school and before for many years. I've seen Vlahos throw that move many times in competition and have never seen him penalized for it. I have seen it called potentially dangerous when he threw it once, which it should be. The big problem I see is that he's never been penalized for it before in high school (that I'm aware of), so he probably didn't think he would be penalized for throwing it again. If he kept the move and used it after he was warned by the official, then he should be penalized. I think it happened too fast for that sequence to ensue. From a fan standpoint, I immediately turned to the person I was sitting next to and said "Willis better not wrestle tonight if he can't finish this match now--the crowd will go crazy if he does and to many it will look very cowardly". Even though he presumably had an acutely subluxed shoulder (where it pops out and comes right back in), he could have wrestled (in my mind) if the following conditions were met. 1)it's happened before and it's been "controlled" 2)he has no acute symptoms such as tingling, numbness, etc (don't want any nerve damage or other issues). I've let some wrestle even if they've got some fairly considerable pain as long as they have the strength to protect themselves, which was probably checked on the mat. I'm pretty sure he didn't have any imaging done between matches! You'll notice they stuck him in a stabilizing brace for the finals. Even though these help, it certainly doesn't guarantee anything (i've seen them sublux again with these on). I personally don't think the addition of this would sway a Dr. too much in allowing him to wrestle in the finals, but not finish his match with Vlahos. He must have initially displayed considerable pain (which of course is subjective and what many fans are questioning), weakness (which can be tested), and/or other symptoms indicating something more severe. I don't even know if this was his diagnosis for sure, but it's what I heard circulating about after the match. The brace can be used for other problems, too. All of these things have to be evaluated and a decision made in a minute and a half! If it's never happened to the kid before, sometimes it seems a little worse at first than what it really is. That being said, the shoulder usually feels worse a few hours later than it did right away (if it's his first time). I personally would have told the kid and his coaches after the match that if it's this bad now, it's probably not going to feel much better for the finals (without knowing his history). It certainly didn't look too bad to me in the finals...but there are also so many variables to consider. I'd say about 90% of the time the coaches will look to the medical professional on hand for their recommendations concerning whether or not the athlete should continue. It looked to me like they consulted the athletic trainer, but I've seen many coaches force their hands on this issue. Hopefully, it was a decision made by careful, professional judgment made between the coaches, medical professionals, and athlete combined. Certainly a difficult, but rightly questionable decision was made in this match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBjj171 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 The thing is that when time was over and he needed to get up, they pulled him up by BOTH arms. If I hurt my shoulder enough to not be able to continue, the last thing I want is you pulling on my ar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Unbelievable. If anybody was gonna be booed yesterday, it should have been Vlahos. The sportsmanship he showed has been about par for the course of the action I have seen from him these past few years. There is a little history there and it does not seem like I am the only one that has observed this. I am tired of hearing people say, "Oh we are booing the situation, not the wrestler". I can accept that for certain calls during a match,heck I will be the first to admit I have done it, but this kid was booed the rest of the night. No situation booing here, the kid, Willis, was the one IMO being booed here and I agree with most on here that are digusted with the actions of the fans. It was an unfortunate way for the match to end, and I know I definitely did not want to see it go down that way. It did give me very good insight into the character of each of these young men as to how the reacted and handled the whole situation from the moment Willis hit the mat until the moment they were accepting there awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finderskeepers Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 From the above post: "Even though he presumably had an acutely subluxed shoulder (where it pops out and comes right back in), he could have wrestled (in my mind) if the following conditions were met. 1)it's happened before and it's been "controlled" 2)he has no acute symptoms such as tingling, numbness, etc (don't want any nerve damage or other issues). " The IndyStar article included this quote from Willis: "My shoulder popped out and then popped right back in, and it pinched a nerve. I felt my hand go numb," Willis said. Perhaps it was the numbness that led to the medical specialist's call that he not continue at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I rarely comment on issues such as this one. However, I feel that I must since the integrity of a young man and a coaching staff are in question. My name is Tom Clark and I am a licensed IHSAA referee and one of two State Rules Interpreters. This year I was not eligible to officiate the State Finals due to our rotation system so I was asked to by Jim Russell to assist him in his duties as Supervisor of Officials. I guess my main point behind this is to explain why I was on the floor and what role I was in while there. I have an advantage in this situation that most, if not all, of you do not have. I was there. I heard the conversation between Tyler WIllis, his coaches and the medical personel. Please understand that what I am about to say is not rumor, heresay, innuendo or second or third hand....it is fact...I was there. Tyler Willis and his coaching staff CLEARLY wanted to continue the match. The medical personel said NO. The medical personal cannot be overruled. Period! The technique that was described to me by the match referees is illegal by application. To clearly define this....an athlete does not have to complete the technique for it to be illegal....it's illegal when the athlete takes that particular hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmb15291 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I notice i havent herd much from the people booin tyler? i was absoultly appalled by every sing person booing... theres a reason the move Vlahos used is illegal, but i know he didnt not to intend to hurt tyler. and i know tyler didnt want to win like that as an athlete you want to prove your the best, not a technicallity.. but one more thing i dont know what was said on the podium but i noticed Vlahos was walking quickly towards tyler and said something and again i dont know what was said but if it was negative why dont people who were booing say thats not right either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finderskeepers Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Thank you, Mr. Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmb15291 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Unbelievable. If anybody was gonna be booed yesterday, it should have been Vlahos. The sportsmanship he showed has been about par for the course of the action I have seen from him these past few years. There is a little history there and it does not seem like I am the only one that has observed this. I am tired of hearing people say, "Oh we are booing the situation, not the wrestler". I can accept that for certain calls during a match,heck I will be the first to admit I have done it, but this kid was booed the rest of the night. No situation booing here, the kid, Willis, was the one IMO being booed here and I agree with most on here that are digusted with the actions of the fans. It was an unfortunate way for the match to end, and I know I definitely did not want to see it go down that way. It did give me very good insight into the character of each of these young men as to how the reacted and handled the whole situation from the moment Willis hit the mat until the moment they were accepting there awards. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMAWRESTLER Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 From what I hear the 3rd place match was pretty cut and dried. How can someone that finished 4th be robbed of a state championship? Had he won the 3rd place match then I can see the point. He was certainly not going to beat the champion. I'm not talking about the DQ match, but if you were DQed in the semis it's almost impossible to get your head back and wrestle back for 3 or 4. The whole thing is just a mess, I feel bad for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I did not participate in the booing. I do think it's funny that people are automatically able to tell to whom the boos were directed. As far as I am concerned, I could see a reason to boo McMurray, Willis, AND Vlahos when they were on the podium. Obviously booing a teenager is a stupid idea, but I think there were many reasons people were booing. I would also like to state that some of the sportsmanship in the state championship matches was terrible. There is no reason to raise three fingers during a match and there is no reason to refuse to shake hands after a championship match. As to all of the fans that decided to belittle Ross Janney after winning a state title, you are TRULY an idiot. The kid had a great season and was definitely deserving of a state title. I have seen Travis and Janney wrestle many times over the last three seasons and there is a reason that I picked Janney to win this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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