finderskeepers

Puts a lot of the squabbles on this board in perspective. Prayers to his family.

At the matside, the doctor is doing a 2-minute evaluation on a person in acute pain, and forced to make a go or no-go decision based on their best judgement at the time the clock runs out. Not much different than when a policeman must decide shoot or don't shoot. You don't have the benefit of time and thorough evaluation. You make the best call you can, and err on the side of safety, in the short time allotted. With 20-20 hindsight, maybe the decision would have been different. I don't think any of us have 20-20 hindsight. I can see how a decision about wrestling at Time A might be different hours later at Time B. You can get mad at the doctor if you feel he or she was too cautious. If you'd been the doctor, maybe your decision would have been different. You can get mad at Vlahos for risking a move like that in such a high stakes match, you can get mad at his coach, for not cautioning Vlahos that this was not the time or place to use the move, you can get mad at the rule book. The point is, the criticism of Willis and his coaches is out of place.

Duck and Run, how can you even possibly accuse the coaches of telling Willis not to finish--DID YOU READ Tom Clark's post? He was there! You are saying "from what I hear"! Tom Clark WAS THERE and reported that both Willis AND HIS COACHES wanted him to finish the match, but were overruled. This must stop.

We have heard on this site from Tom Clark (?Grecoref?), a referee who witnessed all the matside interactions and decision-making. He has stated in no uncertain terms that Willis and his coaches CLEARLY wanted to finish wrestling Vlahos, but their wishes unequivocally overruled by the IHSAA medical people. We have also read from an athletic trainer that a numb extremity, which Willis had, is a reason to overrule a wrestler's and his coaches' desire to finish a match. We also have read that Willis, was seen to tell Vlahos, ?I?m sorry. I didn?t want to win this way.? These are facts. Folks, there are people on this board who, if Willis were Mother Teresa and his coaches were Jesus Christ, and God himself posted exactly what Tom Clark posted ? these people would still argue that Willis and his coaches had ?laid down? purposefully and calculatedly. People like this cannot be reasoned with. It is in their wiring, their hard-drive. Live video and audio, if it existed, of the entire matside evaluation would not change their mind?s view of what happened. They have their view of the world and no amount of reason can change it. The only way you win, if you can call it that, is by walking away. In that spirit, I propose we let this thread die.

Thank you, Mr. Clark.

From the above post: "Even though he presumably had an acutely subluxed shoulder (where it pops out and comes right back in), he could have wrestled (in my mind) if the following conditions were met. 1)it's happened before and it's been "controlled" 2)he has no acute symptoms such as tingling, numbness, etc (don't want any nerve damage or other issues). " The IndyStar article included this quote from Willis: "My shoulder popped out and then popped right back in, and it pinched a nerve. I felt my hand go numb," Willis said. Perhaps it was the numbness that led to the medical specialist's call that he not continue at the time.

I think, despite many, many reports from people familiar with the situation, the angry poster honestly believes that it was the Cathedral coaches who told Tyler Willis that he should not wrestle, so that he might be assured of the win. To a one, everyone familiar with matside evaluation has stated that it was the IHSAA doctor who flat-out told Willis he must not finish the match with an acutely dislocated shoulder. Liability-wise, I can't see any coach overruling a doctor by telling a wrestler in Willis's situation to finish a match, when a specialist has told the wrestler he must stop. The legal risk would be huge. I can't even see the IHSAA condoning it. It is clear that the angry poster has issues that go deeper than this. Most of us experienced with these type of people have learned that there are times we just need to count to ten and walk away. This is one of those times.

Willis is a young sophomore (still 15). He has a reputation for being humble, courteous, and respectful. He honors the sport of wrestling by choosing to participate in it outside of his football season. I know enough about Tyler Willis to know that, if the tables had been turned, and ? --if Willis had continued a potentially dangerous move well beyond the referee?s whistle, and --if, by doing so, Willis had caused another wrestler to suffer a significant physical injury the day that wrestler was expected to compete for the state championship, and --if his injured opponent had been told by the IHSAA doctor that he had a dislocated shoulder and must not continue the match, then ? Tyler Willis would have gracefully lost as his opponent?s hand had been raised. He would have been disappointed, and you would have seen it on his face, but he would have been a model of composure for the young wrestlers in the stands. He would not have run out of the arena in a childish fit. He would not have taunted the injured wrestler as they walked to the podium. He would have been very concerned, and sorry, about any unintentional physical injury he had caused to a fellow wrestling comrade on such an important day. What scares me, really scares me, is that I?m reading so much hatred and divisiveness that I am afraid that, if the situation had truly been reversed, and it was Willis who had caused injury to Vlahos, and Willis had been determined the loser, Willis still would have been booed. Cathedral is a school made up of human beings who are no different from the rest of us. The reasons some parents choose a parochial school are many, complex, and private. Saturday night at Conseco, I witnessed Willis?s family bringing an elderly, wheelchair-bound man to the evening round. I presumed it was his grandfather. My heart aches for this elderly man, who witnessed cruel, unjust outbursts against his grandson. It is some consolation that the grandfather also saw his grandson?s maturity and composure, and must know in his heart that the most important life lessons have been passed on and will endure.

Agree. A.M. weigh-ins more fair, for any tourney but especially this one. Would rather wait longer for brackets to be announced than have Thursday weighins. A compromise might be that Thursday weights will be rechecked Sun a.m. and person must make the same weight to qualify. Or, give the Sun a.m. weigh-ins a 2-lb allowance.

The problem lies in the appearance of a coverup. If the family's intention was to live in the Mishawaka district due to their son's problems at Penn, this conflict might have been avoided by going to the AD / IHSAA at the beginning of school, showing them all their efforts to sell their home, showing them documentation of their agreement to purchase the new home contigent on the sale of the prior home, showing documentation of house showings, showing that the "for sale" sign remains out front and that the realtor is aggressively marketing the house, showing their financial situation that does not allow two mortgages, and showing documentation that their son had legitimate non-athletic conflicts at Penn and had attempted to resolve them before transferring. That gives the AD / IHSAA a chance to resolve the situation in advance. And shame on us for discussing this, if the family did speak with the proper people up front, when it became clear their home would not sell promptly.