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How about those wrestlebacks?

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I forgot, the Indiana state tournament must be much stronger than the NCAA’s since they have wrestlebacks and we don’t? Obviously only the champion matters, why would anyone care about being an all-American if they didn’t win it, correct? 

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6 minutes ago, SIACfan said:

OK, but that is not what I am talking about. How many ranked wrestlers were beaten by someone ranked lower?

Are you arguing that seedings aren't subjective? The guys doing the ranking do a great job, but it is impossible to get them 100% right.

The rankings are locked before sectional, having more data aka sectional and regional results and they would be even more accurate.

The rankings also aren't a "who Mike thinks will win," instead they are based on results and resume.

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23 minutes ago, SIACfan said:

In their particular quarter brackets - yes.

Every quarter bracket had a regional champ, regional 2nd, regional 3rd and a regional 4th... So all quarter brackets were equal.

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3 minutes ago, WOC said:

Every quarter bracket had a regional champ, regional 2nd, regional 3rd and a regional 4th...

True

3 minutes ago, WOC said:

...So all quarter brackets were equal.

Anyone who truly understands this sport & how the State Tournament is structured knows this is not true.

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Wrestle-backs are needed. If we want the best tournament possible, they must be a priority. There were PLENTY of wrestlers yesterday who didn't advance because of terrible draws and others who advanced because of sheer luck of draws. When two top ten wrestlers are battling to a one-point decision in the ticket round and two unranked wrestlers are battling in the ticket round, it's a problem. When you're at state and a wrestler places eighth with a 1-3 record, it's a problem. Compare results with any state or even the NCAA. All placers in tournaments have at least a .500 or winning record at the tournament. In Indiana, you can have a losing record and still be considered a state finisher. It's beyond flawed.

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9 minutes ago, WOC said:

Every quarter bracket had a regional champ, regional 2nd, regional 3rd and a regional 4th... So all quarter brackets were equal.

You're right, every bracket is structurely equal. But if you think every bracket is equal in wrestlers ability, then that explains a lot about your posts.

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I may be wrong here but with wrestle backs don’t you run into the possibility of wrestling the same kid twice in the same day??  If those two kids split matches, did you really find out who the better wrestler is that should advance??  This comes up often at sectionals.  If wrestle backs are there to get the best 4 through, you are still going to have instances where we still don’t know.  

 

What about weight classes like 126 this year where it is loaded??   You have about 6 guys that have traded losses all year long and two are going to be left out.  I bet you don’t get the same four two weeks in a row even with wrestlebacks.  To me that is the beauty of our sport.  It is whoever is best that day.  No system is going to be perfect.  

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14 minutes ago, bluechipper said:

Wrestle-backs are needed. If we want the best tournament possible, they must be a priority. There were PLENTY of wrestlers yesterday who didn't advance because of terrible draws and others who advanced because of sheer luck of draws. When two top ten wrestlers are battling to a one-point decision in the ticket round and two unranked wrestlers are battling in the ticket round, it's a problem. When you're at state and a wrestler places eighth with a 1-3 record, it's a problem. Compare results with any state or even the NCAA. All placers in tournaments have at least a .500 or winning record at the tournament. In Indiana, you can have a losing record and still be considered a state finisher. It's beyond flawed.

I have been an advocate for wrestlebacks and think the discussion needs to happen and keep pushing the coaches association to fight for wrestlebacks. However, I think the discussion should happen at a later time.  Saying this guy should be at state and this guy shouldn’t because of the system in place is disrespectful to the guys that did what was necessary to advance. 

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3 minutes ago, WOC said:

I have been an advocate for wrestlebacks and think the discussion needs to happen and keep pushing the coaches association to fight for wrestlebacks. However, I think the discussion should happen at a later time.  Saying this guy should be at state and this guy shouldn’t because of the system in place is disrespectful to the guys that did what was necessary to advance. 

This I can respect. It is why at this point, you won't see me mention any particular weight at any particular SS.

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20 minutes ago, WOC said:

I have been an advocate for wrestlebacks and think the discussion needs to happen and keep pushing the coaches association to fight for wrestlebacks. However, I think the discussion should happen at a later time.  Saying this guy should be at state and this guy shouldn’t because of the system in place is disrespectful to the guys that did what was necessary to advance. 

I see that argument, but this weekend and next weekend demonstrate the most glaring need for wrestlebacks.  No need to call out kids or weights, but it needs to be mentioned.

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Hey open your eyes we aren't saying kids didn't deserve to advance. We aren't saying that kid didn't earn his spot or do what needed to be done to go. We are saying that you should not have two top seed wrestlers wrestling in the ticket round. Restructure those brackets and those two would both be advancing! Get an open mind and quit reading to respond; read to listen to the other side! 

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Didn't someone in the "know" say that the IHSAA won't add wrestlebacks because they don't want to add additional rounds/time to the already existing tournament. So it seems silly to keep beating this topic into the ground. Come up with a solution other than "just add wrestlebacks".

If the IHSAA ever restructures to allow for wrestlebacks, it might mean less wrestlers advance each round.  For example, would people be willing to go to 8-man semi-state brackets in order to get wrestlebacks? 

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I, personally, like the win or go home drama the ticket round at semistate brings. It's the most fun-filled round, hands down. There will always be people we know are more deserving of getting to state than someone else, but that's the beauty of the system. Yes, the draws can be brutal to some. Yes, it's not 100 percent fair, but that's life.

Probably my favorite moment at the New Castle semistate was in the ticket round watching Dru Berkebile. This kid absolutely is better than some others moving on. He had some brace on his leg and wasn't able to bend it. He barely could get in the down position and he had to take shots practically standing up. But when he lost, knowing his career was over, he saluted the fans and moved on. I'm sure that was tough for him, in a perfect world he would be healthy and advancing to state - but he moved on. A career isn't defined by one loss.

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1 minute ago, V and M's Dad said:

When Brayton Lee was a Freshman and undefeated was he one of the top 16 in the State at his weight? 

Those crazy losses are what makes it fun. Bethel upset one of the greatest Indiana wrestlers in decades and shocked the state. Sure Lee was top 5 material - but on that day in that match he didn't end up on top. I'm sure you can look at every sport and one team that is better than another gets put out and another team moves on.

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3 minutes ago, grappleapple said:

Those crazy losses are what makes it fun. Bethel upset one of the greatest Indiana wrestlers in decades and shocked the state. Sure Lee was top 5 material - but on that day in that match he didn't end up on top. I'm sure you can look at every sport and one team that is better than another gets put out and another team moves on.

In one six minute match he stopped being top 5 material?

 

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8 minutes ago, grappleapple said:

Those crazy losses are what makes it fun. Bethel upset one of the greatest Indiana wrestlers in decades and shocked the state. Sure Lee was top 5 material - but on that day in that match he didn't end up on top. I'm sure you can look at every sport and one team that is better than another gets put out and another team moves on.

 

6 minutes ago, dangood1 said:

No wrestlebacks.  Thats what makes SemiState round 2 so beautiful. Its very tough, and the way it should be.  No other sport can you lose at sectionals, regionals, and semi state and still be a state champ. 

Your ideas of what is Fun and Beautiful could not be more different than mine. Just because that is how it is doesn't mean that is how it should be. 

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14 minutes ago, dangood1 said:

No wrestlebacks.  Thats what makes SemiState round 2 so beautiful. Its very tough, and the way it should be.  No other sport can you lose at sectionals, regionals, and semi state and still be a state champ. 

Track, golf, cross country, etc

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Everyone feels strongly and has opinions on this....I get it.  Can we not focus on what is happening?  This is the greatest week in our sport coming up.  Draws are coming out in a few hours.  Can we not focus on the kids that are wrestling this weekend?  Personally I would rather talk about potential matchups, can’t miss matches, predictions of who wins it all.  There will be plenty of time for this topic after the season is over.

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I don’t really care if you like them because you enjoy watching kids get screwed by being a part of a flawed system. Bottom line is this isn’t how the sport of wrestling is setup so get the corn out of your teeth and wake up. Congrats on all that qualified and good luck next week. The fight will continue. 

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2 minutes ago, aoberlin said:

I don’t really care if you like them because you enjoy watching kids get screwed by being a part of a flawed system. Bottom line is this isn’t how the sport of wrestling is setup so get the corn out of your teeth and wake up. Congrats on all that qualified and good luck next week. The fight will continue. 

So if you like the current system you have to be in favor of kids getting screwed? Comments like this are ignorant, plain and simple. We are all here because we love this sport and want what is best for it. We don't have to agree on everything, but to pretend we don't care about those participating because of whether or not we like wrestle backs is just plain dumb.

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15 minutes ago, raider140 said:

Everyone feels strongly and has opinions on this....I get it.  Can we not focus on what is happening?  This is the greatest week in our sport coming up.  Draws are coming out in a few hours.  Can we not focus on the kids that are wrestling this weekend?  Personally I would rather talk about potential matchups, can’t miss matches, predictions of who wins it all.  There will be plenty of time for this topic after the season is over.

This is spot on. 

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1 hour ago, grappleapple said:

Those crazy losses are what makes it fun. Bethel upset one of the greatest Indiana wrestlers in decades and shocked the state. Sure Lee was top 5 material - but on that day in that match he didn't end up on top. I'm sure you can look at every sport and one team that is better than another gets put out and another team moves on.

People like going to the casino because of a random lucky chance to win and thats fun.  When i go to state wrestling tournament, i like watching the best wrestlers match up, not the luckiest wrestlers.

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