aoberlin

3 minutes ago, busstogate said:

Is it too much to ask to have some kind of season-ending tournament to see if the rankings are of any use?  This might be a bit much to reconcile, but I would gladly welcome a crumb of humoring.

Now imagine we were a classed state.......

Well this makes @ontherise219 job real easy then. Since us silly Indiana people just can't seem to grasp how hard Ironman is and we just have never left our state walls or been to national level tournaments.  Anytime someone places or heck even wins a match at Ironman they should be ranked #1 in the state and everyone else in Indiana shouldn't even bother trying at that weight. The kid is phenom and so is Layne. It was a 1 point match last time they wrestled. It will probably be close again when and if they meet. One is ranked 1st the other 2nd both very well earned rankings. @TeamGarcia I usually like reading your posts because they are fun. Right now you coming off like you are talking down to the wrestling community like we are clueless. We are all obsessed over this sport and most know just how awesome it is for some of our Indiana kids to compete in the Ironman. Heck I am sure some of us are jealous our programs or wrestlers can't get the golden ticket. But there is no reason to rub that in the faces of other fans, coaches, and athletes. You may not mean it to come off that way or you might. I don't know you enough to tell. But either way that is how it is perceived. 

45 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:

Not disputing the IHPO, or IHPO results . 
 

These rankings are based on “Season Results” that count towards that. 
 

I’ll put Horn above Dickman on P4P rankings because it was out of season win. Horn beat (Fargo All-American) out of HS season tournament congrats . 

 

In HS Season Dickman HS results are Facts, he’s #1 HS wrestler in Indiana at 106 .  
Can’t dispute the resume he’s building . 
 

 

 

 

Let me start by saying both are absolute phenomenal wrestlers. So not taking anything away from anyone. I never do that. But to my knowledge, and I can be corrected by the rankers. It is off season and in season results, along with a total resume that the rankings are based on. 
 

Yes a very tough in season schedule is going to benefit wrestlers and give them more opportunities to “prove” themselves. But… just because a wrestler doesn’t get to meet national level wrestlers in their schedule doesn’t mean he hasn’t earned his recognition if the wrestler is able to prove themselves at all opportunities in front of them including off-season.

11 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:

I’m gonna need some results from “in season”  #1 Horn, until then ….. we’ll we got a new #1 at 106 

I do believe IHPO has been considered in season for quite a few years now although Faulkens may disagree.  Every kid that enters IHPO knows what they are in for and that the results will be used for rankings.  So until they get matched up again the results speak for themselves.

I would say the ticket round is a major accomplishment. There are times a wrestler can slip through to semi-state with the right weight class and draws. But winning that first round at semi-state I think shows you can compete at that level. Back in the day when you took only 3 from Regionals I think it was more of an accomplishment. You need to win more than one match at Regionals.

But yes I would agree it would depend on the kid and what is an accomplishment for them. I have coached some kids that making it to semi-state alone was absolutely huge growth for them. So in the end to each its own.

1 hour ago, CFleshman said:

That doesn't really help your thinking. I can drive an hour + in all 4 directions and not have the availability of a room with just semi state qualifiers. Let alone multiple Medals and champions. We have kids in the NE part of the state that put the same amount of time in as said group. Just don't have 3-4 different Academies to bounce in and out of like Indy and the region.

Love ya Chuck. Don’t forget every Monday and Thursday at The Fort we had practices all spring, summer, and up to the wrestling season. There were always State qualifiers, medal winners, and semi-state qualifiers. Those same kids are doing great this year. Heck you helped do the wiring. Not to mention national level camps and clinics. Then live nights to sharpen the last couple months before season started. 

Fun dual for sure! And I didn't have to leave my couch.

12 minutes ago, wrestlingcoach1 said:

Columbus East over THS at Columbus East Invite. Comes down to head to head matchups at 220 and 285 which East sweeps 2-0. Morrill over rose and Pat McMahon with the pin to seal the deal. 232-220.5. 

Some solid wrestling there today.

2 minutes ago, BlackBaron said:

Sir. 8 state qualifier. A medal. And 2 semi state titles sir    Mostly there for the food and beverages

Word.

I remember when the first discussions were had about when to host the coaches association team State. When it was through IHSAA it was in parallel with the State series.  Then when the coaches association had to take over, the only logical time was beginning of January since we will be bumping into conference tournaments for some schools and needed to avoid the big holiday tournaments. Personally I would have loved to see it happen either 2 weeks before Sectionals or 1 week before so that would give us a full season of matchups to see how everything plays out. Unfortunately many schools have their conference either 2 weeks before sectionals or a week before sectionals and logistically it didn't sound like those things could be changed. So we are left with last years results and a month and half of a season to determine who qualifies. That also means that teams that have a bunch of football players and a football team those goes deep into the tournament are going to suffer.  On top of that November and December are pretty typical for sickness flowing through school systems and teams. There just isn't an easy answer. Like everyone else we haven't had our actual lineup yet and will not until after Christmas but we have some solid backups to make up for it. The schools that have a wrestling culture will always win this case. Just meaning those schools where athletes prioritize wrestling over all other sports. Which also means the small schools will suffer more because usually more of those kids are multi sport athletes and their lineups aren't going to be as deep.

The only real answer to me would be move team state to a week or 2 before sectionals and go mostly off of the current years results. But... that just isn't going to be possible. I would like to thank everyone involved in making team state happen because it is a tough job trying to figure out who should get invited. The good thing is though I think the top 4 usually always rises to the top.

Hopefully Homestead next year. 

3 hours ago, rhayes said:

Aoberlin- when you are a large school you are correct. Smaller schools don’t have that luxury. My point was, we are competing with the large schools with a depleted lineup. I make no excuses for our team, our results will speak for themselves. This new ranking just seamed off, not just MV but other positions as well. 

Large schools vs culture in a school. I will take culture all day long. The question is; how do you build the culture and is it easier to build at a smaller school?

1 hour ago, rhayes said:

MV. The first weekend, we had two loses, but had 3 forfeits in our lineup and again had multiple starters out at Shamrock duals.  We have yet to have a full lineup, like a lot of others, but 4-1 at Traicoff even without full lineup and yet no changes to the rankings. I believe GC also beat CE and stayed under them. 

It’s very rare a team has their “A” lineup in. It’s the teams that have depth that show how good they are.

Very strong. Add to the fact those are mostly rural schools that aren't that big. There are some deep weight classes coming out of there.

That there will be a good dual.

That’s pretty cool. I have watched the movie but never caught this.

Yep. It is pretty typical for this time of year with seasonal sickness and wrestlers just starting to really get back in shape. The old or young immune system takes a dip for a little while. Be glad you get it out of the way now.

2 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

Not saying he was a bad wrestler or coach but I couldn't stand listening to that guy commentate a match. Still can't get that voice out of my head.

 Chertow runs a  high energy great clinic and connects with the kids. He also does a great job of point out who made what moves famous and who currently uses certain ones. He can still move pretty good also. 

29 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Pretty tough of you to come on a messageboard and make fun of a high school kid.

 

We addressed this on Gorilla Radio last night. These kids, especially the top guys, are under a lot of pressure from coaches to commit right then and there. The coaches are very persuasive and use every tactic possible to get a commitment as soon as possible. Think if you were a high school kid with all the best coaches in the country calling you wanting you to wrestle for them. Could you tell Tom Brands, Cael Sanderson, John Smith, etc, "no thanks, your program isn't for me?" I know I would have a hard time. Maybe for you, you never made any decision at 17 years old that you later reneged on, but I'm guessing you have.

At 47 I couldn't even tell Chertow no.

Just now, QuinnHarris said:

Coach you hit the nail on the head. You have to get these kids involved in summer / offseason events so they can experience the success that they may not always find during season!

Also they see you leading by example which in my opinion is the most important type of leadership there is.

27 minutes ago, QuinnHarris said:

Last year first day we had 13 kids.

 

Finished the season with 20.

 

This year the whole first week we had 22 and some middle schoolers without any of our football guys. Should have them in the room today!

 

62 in our youth program that fires up tomorrow and another 30+ on our MS roster!

The same coaches and programs with high numbers are the same coaches and programs you see at off season events.  It's all about engagement no matter what size school you are. Coaching a high school program is not a 4 month job. It's a year round commitment just like it is for your wrestlers that really want success. Until everyone buys into that we will have what we have. Nice job Quinn I see you everywhere.

39

11 hours ago, decbell1 said:

There are ways to word an argument and then there are ways to argue aimlessly 

 

so much of this has been beaten to death through so many threads with so many good posts by the involved parties detailing why decisions were made. I do not have the time or energy to explain why we’ve made the changes we’ve made. 
 

we used to have 36 teams, then we split 3A into two and now we have 40 teams. And now that’s not enough. 
 

 

What some people call arguing other people call discussing. Love pissing in some private school cheerios, only because I am jealous. In all honesty it's a great thing when people argue/discuss things like this. That means you have done it right and there is interest there. Well done on the coaches association's Team State. And thank you to everyone that helps put this together.

5 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I don't think you know exactly where I'm coming from. I'm referring to only MD when I talk about a 500 kid school competing with a 1200 kid school. A team that willingly goes to the top class to wrestle. If someone is saying we should have a private school class because their school is 2 or even 10x the size of MD and they can't beat MD I say "What more do you want MD to do?" As far as your situation goes you should do right for you and your team (you are probably already doing that). In general I would not expect a 500 kid school to jump up and wrestle Ben Davis or Penn or WC at team state. I say don't mess with the system that is in place unless IHSAA wants to take it and do a class team state as long as a school can willingly move up. However I don't see IHSAA taking it, they already had team state at one time and then stopped doing it for a number of reasons, that subject is probably best for another thread.

MD has a powerhouse system and one of the best wrestling cultures probably in the Nation.  Yes there are years the little 500 person private school can bump up and win team state against big huge public schools. They can also go and win state as a team in the individual series. So that shows they are the supreme champions of Indiana wrestling that year. Awesome, good for you and everyone associated with that program. I honestly bet it feels great to be on top like that and every single wrestler, coach, and parent at MD puts in more effort than the rest of the state. You have your bubble you live in, I get it, and I don’t blame you.

I am not bagging on Cathedral or MD. They are both great programs and it would be great to be a part of something like that. What I am saying is there could be a discussion about separating private schools  for team state to allow even more teams opportunities that probably will not also ever be able to put a team together that can make a run at the individual team state title.

I know MD is already in some real powerhouse dual tournaments and there are always known powerhouse teams that they can make sure they get the opportunity to wrestle during the season. Also realize I’m not trying to get my team to team state. We aren’t there yet no matter how hard we try.  I am just interesting in talking wrestling now that season is starting next week.

4 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I'll tell you what go make a division for whatever criteria you want. Put whatever schools want to be in this division, be it a huge school that is in the middle of nowhere or the small school that can't find the right competition or whatever criteria you want to make whatever school you want a state champ. Put all of them together and see who comes out on top and call them a state champ. But I can guarantee you if you pull Cathedral or MD out and put them in a private school division they will not be satisfied calling themselves a state champ unless they wrestle the top schools in the state. And I would bet that Crown Point Brownsburg or Center Grove isn't going to call themselves a state champ unless they wrestle Cathedral or MD. If you want to make it as Fair as you can for those that can't quite get there go make a division for them and leave us alone.

I would be honestly interested in a poll of every person that cares about wrestling, that isn’t associated with the schools you just named, if they really care about naming one of those schools a team state champ. Most people want the school their associated with and their home grown wrestlers to do well. Yeah I like a great dual with great wrestling but I also can watch that all off-season at any of the big dual tournaments that stack the teams with studs. To each their own.