aoberlin Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 31 minutes ago, MattM said: I'm sure we have seen a few cases of that being used similar to the inhaler situation mentioned previously. But, policing those situations is hard and I'm not sure the refs want that judgment on their hands as Y2 mentioned earlier. I would agree with that. I have a wrestler that usually needs the can in the first 30 seconds of his first match of the day. Nothing he can really do about it. Bob Roe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle McCloy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I am so glad this subject has been brought up. I agree that this is becoming a consistent occurrence. I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to the rules, just a fan and dad. It sounds like everyone agrees that a competitor’s superior conditioning should not be allowed to be canceled out by this practice. In these cases, can the referee not ask what the injury is? Or just simply say are you hurt or just out of breath? It sure seems like there’s an opportunity for improvement here. I don’t know if a rule change is in order, or if the refs need to be better prepared/trained on how to handle this, but I’m glad the discussion is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 46 minutes ago, Kyle McCloy said: I am so glad this subject has been brought up. I agree that this is becoming a consistent occurrence. I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to the rules, just a fan and dad. It sounds like everyone agrees that a competitor’s superior conditioning should not be allowed to be canceled out by this practice. In these cases, can the referee not ask what the injury is? Or just simply say are you hurt or just out of breath? It sure seems like there’s an opportunity for improvement here. I don’t know if a rule change is in order, or if the refs need to be better prepared/trained on how to handle this, but I’m glad the discussion is happening. Maybe the refs can take a medical class on diagnosing wrestling injuries in 10 seconds so they can make have the expertise to make a judgment call if wrestler is injured or not. This is getting absurd!!!!! I think mentioned earlier, the referees can be subject to a lawsuit if they forced an injured kid to wrestle. Safety still is a top priority, and you're not going to penalize or punish a kid when he says he's hurt. The protocol works, and every sport has injuries that slow the pace of the game and affects the game. Injuries are a part of the game. formercollegekid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle McCloy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I apologize, it was not my intent to suggest they diagnose. I’m not suggesting anyone do anything, I am just asking what the protocol is. I’m just trying to understand how it works currently. When a wrestler asks for a time out, do they have to say what the injury is? Can a ref ask what their injury is? Again, I’m trying to come at this as a learner and understand what I’m seeing on the mat, not offer a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, Kyle McCloy said: I apologize, it was not my intent to suggest they diagnose. I’m not suggesting anyone do anything, I am just asking what the protocol is. I’m just trying to understand how it works currently. When a wrestler asks for a time out, do they have to say what the injury is? Can a ref ask what their injury is? Again, I’m trying to come at this as a learner and understand what I’m seeing on the mat, not offer a solution. Don't take any offense Kyle. Anytime you post something on here you will get positive and negative feedback. Scholar and I agree on many things. Not on this which is okay. In my opinion, something needs to change. It's getting out of hand. Maybe the coaches can wrestle to decide what happens. For every 2 years over 40, we get spotted a point. First one to 4 wins. HWTDAD and Tcarter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle McCloy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 No offense taken, I just wanted to be clear that I wasn’t making myself out to be some expert. I truly am seeking to understand. aoberlin and CainBones 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TightCradle Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Just happened with 20 seconds left in the first match of Crown Point vs. Mt. Carmel. Score was 2-0 and was about to be 2-2 when the kid called his own injury time. Barn Burner, MUSKEEWRESTLER and TrueRegionFan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMA Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Just saw it on first match of mt Carmel TrueRegionFan and TightCradle 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Joshua Unger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghengis86 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Mat don’t lie…Stanley ended up losing in TB-1. I think there should be some penalty, especially if scoring is imminent. Giving the other wrestler Choice seems to be the most reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, TightCradle said: Just happened with 20 seconds left in the first match of Crown Point vs. Mt. Carmel. Score was 2-0 and was about to be 2-2 when the kid called his own injury time. That was one of the more egregious I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 If you know me you know I don't look to stir things up for fun unless you are part of one of my text groups. I am telling you I watch a ton of wrestling and it is getting worse. MUSKEEWRESTLER and TightCradle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 12 hours ago, Ghengis86 said: Mat don’t lie…Stanley ended up losing in TB-1. I think there should be some penalty, especially if scoring is imminent. Giving the other wrestler Choice seems to be the most reasonable. Per the rules, there's no penalty for calling injury time out. But!!!! If there is imminent scoring situation such as a takedown (based on referees judgment), and a wrestler that's about to get scored on becomes injured, then the referee can award the points the points for the takedown or whatever scoring situation. In my opinion, this rule would have been applicable in this Stanley match with 20 seconds left. You don't see it much and of course it would have been a ballsy call. This would have been the perfect time to apply that rule, and i think the ref missed it albeit a tough call to make. The takedown at the end was also a really close call, and I could have seen that go either way. I bet the ref, was thinking about the injury call and at that point was going to error on the side of Crown Point. Note, that rule was added about 4 years ago, and done like I said for situations like this. Edited January 17 by Wrestling Scholar MUSKEEWRESTLER and Silence Dogood 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 hours ago, aoberlin said: Don't take any offense Kyle. Anytime you post something on here you will get positive and negative feedback. Scholar and I agree on many things. Not on this which is okay. In my opinion, something needs to change. It's getting out of hand. Maybe the coaches can wrestle to decide what happens. For every 2 years over 40, we get spotted a point. First one to 4 wins. I think we agree that it's something we can't put on the referee as a judgement call, as that would be a slippery slope. I wouldn't have a problem with a rule change that's similar to the college rule where after the 1st injury time out, the non-injured wrestler gets choice of position. Note, currently under NFHSA its, choice of position after the 2nd injury time out. It works at the college level, so it wouldn't be that significant of a change. I wish we could mine track wrestling data and see if we really have an increase in injury time outs. I always like to use real data to see if there is a trend. CainBones, Kyle McCloy and aoberlin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle McCloy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I agree with using actual data, because going by anecdotal information can definitely tell a different story. However, it seems like a real issue. If there is in fact an increase in these instances, I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Can't remember exact schools, but there were a couple early in the season where the coach basically told his wrestler "No way, you are just tired. Keep wrestling." This was coming after out of bounds situations where they were able to make eye contact and briefly communicate. Kudos to those coaches. MUSKEEWRESTLER, Lawdiggity, aoberlin and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle McCloy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I just wanted to acknowledge this point: “I think we agree that it's something we can't put on the referee as a judgement call, as that would be a slippery slope.” That’s a good point and makes total sense. I agree. I’m going to try and ask my initial question in a better way so that I understand. Currently, the protocol is that if a wrestler calls for injury timeout, no matter the circumstance, even if everyone in the building knows he’s only trying to avoid getting scored on, or get a breather because he’s gassed, he gets the time out, no question asked? That is the correct way a referee is supposed to handle it according to the rules and how refs are trained to handle it? And there is no recourse other than if they do it a second time the opponent gets choice of position? Please don’t read any sarcasm into this or take it as a statement of what’s right or wrong, I just simply want to know what the current protocol is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackgopher Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, Wrestling Scholar said: I wish we could mine track wrestling data and see if we really have an increase in injury time outs. I always like to use real data to see if there is a trend. This would be something that I would have been willing to do, but due to injury time not actually being captured in TW (it is just a secondary clock) thus no scoring or tags within the match, I don’t believe it is possible. Definitely something that piqued my interest though. Wrestling Scholar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunDevils Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 21 hours ago, aoberlin said: If you know me you know I don't look to stir things up for fun unless you are part of one of my text groups. I am telling you I watch a ton of wrestling and it is getting worse. Is it getting worse or are wrestlers just becoming increasingly mat savvy? Forget tiger style, manatee style! Athletes calling for (fake) injury time should also be using non-sticky tape on their shoes and have a inhaler in the coaches hand. tyquhp13, MUSKEEWRESTLER, Coplen187 and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco165 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 If there is an obvious blow or injury there is no question that it should be allowed. Outside of that it's pretty dubious. Even asthma is questionable, best practice is to use your rescue inhaler 15 minutes before strenuous physical activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeWrestler Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/16/2024 at 10:03 PM, Silence Dogood said: That was one of the more egregious I've seen. The kid is notorious for it. Glad the ref called him for it. Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awill0352 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Love the idea of choice of position for the opponent no matter what caused injury time. Seems so obvious this is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgPoundRed Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Some people can't handle the pace, the penalty will be knowing you didn't work hard enough when the match is on the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/17/2024 at 11:20 PM, awill0352 said: Love the idea of choice of position for the opponent no matter what caused injury time. Seems so obvious this is the answer. What if it was an illegal move by the other wrestler? Or something that was potentially dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgPoundRed Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 19 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said: What if it was an illegal move by the other wrestler? Or something that was potentially dangerous? Then you just lay down and advance in the tournament right? Then wrestle your next match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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