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Carmel Disciplined for Sauna Suits

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Please discontinue hating on Carmel’s wrestling program.  there is a history of many unsung heroes that devoted many hours trying to get that program better at wrestling - just like everybody else’s programs.

Thanks, Scott Kelly

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What we know is that rules were broken, and there is an acknowledgement by the athletic director, followed by a letter of apology for his wrestling program.

My problem with this situation is that privlaged young men are being taught that it’s ok to break rules as long as you don’t get caught.  Also that winning is more important than the health and safety of HS student athletes.  In today’s world, this can not tolerated.  

I don’t care who the coach is. Adults working with today’s youth must set a better example than this. Very disappointing. 

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2 hours ago, Coach AJ said:

So back to my earlier question..Can the IHSAA still decide to suspend all at this late in the game?   Or the decision is final they just forfeit wins... any thoughts...

I know someone has a rule book....let’s here it.  I thought it was something like ‘if an official sees the use of such suits, that wrestler is out of that tournament, even if they observe it hours before the dual begins.’  While no official observed it here, self reporting should not be discouraged (even if it was under 19 separate/isolated situations).   From the loose facts we’ve heard, Carmel has done just that.   The boys lost the “win”, so they won’t be able to tell a college recruiter they won 120 matches - that’s not insignificant.    

If the use of such suits is in fact so agreguous of a safety violation that use of such suits should get you DQ’d from the state series, then the IHSAA is free to implement that going forward — but not retroactively.    Let’s have the safety conversation of this separate from the technical rule violation of using them   

Someone at Carmel did do the right thing by self reporting, and they should not be punished more harshly because of it.  (Plus, we don’t wanna get uninvited to the great RTC program they run 😬). No question in my mind those boys should be permitted to wrestle. 

 

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Sorry if this was already answered but I'm wondering if the forfeits and changing in scores was self imposed or was it handed down by IHSAA..i would hate to see these boys wake up in the morning to find out they're ineligible to wrestle.. so if the punishment was self imposed IHSAA should've reacted before now and if they've  made there final decisions we need to move forward and let the wrestling begin...just my opinion..

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4 hours ago, hometown said:

IF THIS WAS MY KID I WOULD BE OKAY IF HE WASN'T ABLE TO COMPETE ITS IS OWN DUMB ASS FAULT HE DID THIS TAKE THE PUNISHMENT AS IT IS. 

  I get what you're saying about double standard but you yourself admitted to getting in trouble doing this same thing but are judging as if you were totally accepting of your punishment as if you knew as you put it was "YOUR DUMB ASS FAULT" and didn't care you got caught..I don't condone this situation but your approach is puzzling.. Are you mad that that they didn't get the same punishment as you?  or are you genuinely concerned about the real problem here and that's what's safety.

 

I don't know coach P personally but ppl that I hold in high regard and love like family speak nothing but wonderful things about coach.. Did he make a mistake?  yes..is he human?  yes will he learn from this? guaranteed 

I don't wanna speak too much on things I don't know all about but the man has done a million times more good than he's done bad in this situation for wrestling and thousands of great young men...so I believe he needs to be punished for this however they see fit but Imho he shouldn't lose his job or be looked at  any different..we all need to remember to watch pointing fingers with dirty hands.. and that's not me saying everybody's a cheater or used sauna suits i'm saying that everybody makes mistakes and that we should approach this with a open mind and think about how we would feel if this was us in this situation..

I'm sure coach P will take the consequences like the man he is..I just hate the negative publicity this has brought to the sport instead of us all celebrating the fact the greatest time of the year is upon us brought to us by the greatest sport on the planet ! i'm not taking the mans side i'm just saying let the powers at be do their job and try not to bash young men who made mistakes and a legend that has made a error..I don't wanna see any wrestlers seasons end because of this but if there's been a precedent set from a previous situation then those same repercussions should be applied..but then again we don't know the specifics on the self reporting and if that had any bearing on the punishment handed down..Hometowns situation he's claiming that is the same could be way different in terms how it was handled and that could be why there wasn't the same punishment.. just sucks this all happened and is the hot topic instead of us talking about the great wrestling that's on the horizon! 

Edited by FCFIGHTER170

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Jake was forced to wrestle up at 182 in Sectional last season because the week he had gained his qualifying 170# weight in mid-December they said he had lost too much weight. Then all his other recorded 170# weights were actually 171# or 172# because it was after the first of the year. So they ruled he never was at the 170# weight to be able to wrestle that in the tournament. It was frustrating but he dealt with it and ended up qualifying for SS at 182. But my question is if they are that particular about kids losing too much weight too quickly (which I understand they do because of safety) how can these kids be eligible to wrestle at the weights they attained by using the suits? Idk the specifics and I’m not a wrestling guru but I’d think if they are forced to forfeit all the matches affected then their weights for those matches would not count either. 

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11 hours ago, FCFIGHTER170 said:

  I get what you're saying about double standard but you yourself admitted to getting in trouble doing this same thing but are judging as if you were totally accepting of your punishment as if you knew as you put it was "YOUR DUMB ASS FAULT" and didn't care you got caught..I don't condone this situation but your approach is puzzling.. Are you mad that that they didn't get the same punishment as you?  or are you genuinely concerned about the real problem here and that's what's safety.

 

I don't know coach P personally but ppl that I hold in high regard and love like family speak nothing but wonderful things about coach.. Did he make a mistake?  yes..is he human?  yes will he learn from this? guaranteed 

I don't wanna speak too much on things I don't know all about but the man has done a million times more good than he's done bad in this situation for wrestling and thousands of great young men...so I believe he needs to be punished for this however they see fit but Imho he shouldn't lose his job or be looked at  any different..we all need to remember to watch pointing fingers with dirty hands.. and that's not me saying everybody's a cheater or used sauna suits i'm saying that everybody makes mistakes and that we should approach this with a open mind and think about how we would feel if this was us in this situation..

I'm sure coach P will take the consequences like the man he is..I just hate the negative publicity this has brought to the sport instead of us all celebrating the fact the greatest time of the year is upon us brought to us by the greatest sport on the planet ! i'm not taking the mans side i'm just saying let the powers at be do their job and try not to bash young men who made mistakes and a legend that has made a error..I don't wanna see any wrestlers seasons end because of this but if there's been a precedent set from a previous situation then those same repercussions should be applied..but then again we don't know the specifics on the self reporting and if that had any bearing on the punishment handed down..Hometowns situation he's claiming that is the same could be way different in terms how it was handled and that could be why there wasn't the same punishment.. just sucks this all happened and is the hot topic instead of us talking about the great wrestling that's on the horizon! 

i am mad on the punishment and for the health both. this state athletic association just opened a new picture on things. what they now are telling kids coaches and parents is brake the rules and we wont punish you. i will tell you this state has no control and it starts at the top. i don't care what the coaches name is if this was the NCAA and this happened to Penn State in wrestling or Alabama or Clemson in football i would be my life earning that the players and coaches as well as the school its self would be punished... watch out state here comes more rules to be broke by everyone because of the lack of punishment in this situation and the lack of control you goofy looking commissioner has. Some example this states athletic association puts on......... people would be disgusted with the state and with  caramel for the lack of discipline but even worse be disgusted by the coach with the credentials and impact he has on the wrestling community to have that little control when he use to run CIA. This just shows you can pay your way out of any rule violation no matter if it is national rule or state way to go Carmel high school and way to go Bob cox and the IHSAA....

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6 minutes ago, frigginhurts said:

There were consequences...time to move on.  Not every rule break deserves suspension from the tournament.    Good luck to all today!

a forfeit is not a punishment that is a slap on the wrist........................................................

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1 hour ago, hometown said:

i am mad on the punishment and for the health both. this state athletic association just opened a new picture on things. what they now are telling kids coaches and parents is brake the rules and we wont punish you. i will tell you this state has no control and it starts at the top. i don't care what the coaches name is if this was the NCAA and this happened to Penn State in wrestling or Alabama or Clemson in football i would be my life earning that the players and coaches as well as the school its self would be punished... watch out state here comes more rules to be broke by everyone because of the lack of punishment in this situation and the lack of control you goofy looking commissioner has. Some example this states athletic association puts on......... people would be disgusted with the state and with  caramel for the lack of discipline but even worse be disgusted by the coach with the credentials and impact he has on the wrestling community to have that little control when he use to run CIA. This just shows you can pay your way out of any rule violation no matter if it is national rule or state way to go Carmel high school and way to go Bob cox and the IHSAA....

I feel your frustration.. do you care to share how your situation was dealt with and the similarities and differences? if not I understand just intrigued with your stance and view on this matter, being you already have had a similar situation. 

Edited by FCFIGHTER170

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18 hours ago, Coach Nieman said:

Why should any teams follow weight loss rules? If these kids or coaches aren't suspended, the IHSAA sets the precedent that nobody has to follow weight loss rules. Regardless of your thoughts on if they should/n't be allowed to wrestle, no punishment says that the "rules" are guidelines.

I totally agree with this statement. 75% of the posts in this forum are sadly about the seedlings of the kids, and I haven’t seen much of anything talking about the health of the athletes. Can we call a spade a spade and acknowledge this is terrible for your body? Do you all think it’s odd that the wrestling community on average is significantly shorter than those outside of it? Do you think it’s just a coincidence or could it possibly be years of depriving your body of nutrients during critical periods of growth? 

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3 hours ago, hometown said:

i am mad on the punishment and for the health both. this state athletic association just opened a new picture on things. what they now are telling kids coaches and parents is brake the rules and we wont punish you. i will tell you this state has no control and it starts at the top. i don't care what the coaches name is if this was the NCAA and this happened to Penn State in wrestling or Alabama or Clemson in football i would be my life earning that the players and coaches as well as the school its self would be punished... watch out state here comes more rules to be broke by everyone because of the lack of punishment in this situation and the lack of control you goofy looking commissioner has. Some example this states athletic association puts on......... people would be disgusted with the state and with  caramel for the lack of discipline but even worse be disgusted by the coach with the credentials and impact he has on the wrestling community to have that little control when he use to run CIA. This just shows you can pay your way out of any rule violation no matter if it is national rule or state way to go Carmel high school and way to go Bob cox and the IHSAA....

This is a total guess, but maybe the difference is that Carmel High School self reported the violation to the IHSAA? Punishments are usual lower if it is self reported as opposed to trying to hide it from them. Again, I don’t know anything about you or your situation, so this is just a guess not meant to be a personal attack. If the situations aren’t exactly the same, then the punishments probably won’t be either. 

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19 minutes ago, GrecoCoach said:

This is a total guess, but maybe the difference is that Carmel High School self reported the violation to the IHSAA? Punishments are usual lower if it is self reported as opposed to trying to hide it from them. Again, I don’t know anything about you or your situation, so this is just a guess not meant to be a personal attack. If the situations aren’t exactly the same, then the punishments probably won’t be either. 

that's what I was trying to articulate but my meat headness and sausage finger syndrome kicks in.. plus proof readings for sucker's! 

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The news media knows there are other teams out there who have been wearing the suits. They just haven’t self reported to the IHSAA like Carmel. But they know who they are which includes coaches. People have been coming out of the woodwork reporting other programs to the Media. 

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