Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
bluechipper

Small School Representation

Recommended Posts

Those 3A schools just work harder, when will the others realize that?

That or just have more resources and former wrestlers to help build the program?

 

To the topic in general : I guess my definition of small school wrestling programs are 1A for wrestling and 1A & 2A for football and other major team sports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am trying to get on the football staff next year. I am trying to pull kids in non stop - if I'm on the staff I'll have a better chance I'm sure. We started the season with 15 kids after 2 days 13 after 1 week 12 - with injuries we went to sectionals with 7 kids. 1 was a backup to our 170 - 4 advanced to regional - 3 to semi state and 1 to state. It's our 4th year of Varisty wrestling. We have our first year of Middle school this year and our club is growing a little now. We hope in 4 more years our program will have the numbers if we keep building. I don't buy the 3a has more to choose it's the work ethic , resources and feeder program that does it. With the small success and getting our Athletic Department behind us - we can grow it. We only had 4 football players , I hope to remedy that next year.

 

It's not the size of the man in the fight , its the size of the fight in the man !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1A- 25/224 - 11%

2A- 57/224 - 26%

3A- 142/224 - 63%

 

 

Using the latest IHSAA enrollment figures:

 

1A Schools represent approximately 12.5% of the total students in schools with wrestling programs

2A Schools represent approximately 24.3% of the total students in schools with wrestling programs

3A Schools represent approximately 63.2% of the total students in schools with wrestling programs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using the latest IHSAA enrollment figures:

 

1A Schools represent approximately 12.5% of the total students in schools with wrestling programs

2A Schools represent approximately 24.3% of the total students in schools with wrestling programs

3A Schools represent approximately 63.2% of the total students in schools with wrestling programs

Percent of entries 33.333333%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly the individual tournament should be classed.

 

good-luck-troll-dolls-movie-film.jpg

So, if we classed it, would it be three classes like Team State or group 1A/2A together. If the single class system allowed more qualifiers and wrestlebacks, I'd be up for it, but if they're talking more representation and want more participation with a lighter schedule, I think that's the wrong way to go. Kids like winning. With winning comes championships. There's a lot of kids who could potentially win championships. I'm sure in Illinois, a 3A Champion doesn't consider himself more/less of a champion than a 1A wrestler. Throughout the entire season, much like in Illinois and any other state, I'm sure they would wrestle teams in different classes 24/7 to test their strengths. I think it would do wonders for the sport. If we want to grow, let's grow. I'm all for it. I'm sure schools who'd want to compete with the 3A teams like MD would do so. I don't see a reason not to. Edited by bluechipper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Percent of entries 33.333333%

That doesn't factor the forfeits. Using last years forfeit numbers, 1a had 27% of the total wrestlers entered. Meaning the schools representing 12.5% of the total student population only filled 82% of their third of the total. So applying their entry rate of 82% (as it relates to the whole) to the student population that gives 10.25%, which is percentage of 1a wrestlers that should be qualifying and placing. 1a seems to overachieve slightly on qualifiers and more dramatically under performs on placers. The 2a class consistently over performs in both qualifiers and places, so much so that a combined 1a & 2a exceed their student population in qualifiers and placers. The lack of placers at 1a is still a little troubling, but the combined numbers don't suggest our small to mid size school's are not getting an equitable share of qualifiers or placers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That doesn't factor the forfeits. Using last years forfeit numbers, 1a had 27% of the total wrestlers entered. Meaning the schools representing 12.5% of the total student population only filled 82% of their third of the total. So applying their entry rate of 82% (as it relates to the whole) to the student population that gives 10.25%, which is percentage of 1a wrestlers that should be qualifying and placing. 1a seems to overachieve slightly on qualifiers and more dramatically under performs on placers. The 2a class consistently over performs in both qualifiers and places, so much so that a combined 1a & 2a exceed their student population in qualifiers and placers. The lack of placers at 1a is still a little troubling, but the combined numbers don't suggest our small to mid size school's are not getting an equitable share of qualifiers or placers.

Does every wrestler that enters the state tournament have an equal chance to qualify/place/win state?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just adding a question, I always assumed everyone was equal when they stepped on the line. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not sure how 33% of the qualifiers/placers coming from 12.5% of the student population would ever be considered equitable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Percent of entries 33.333333%

 

I've had this debate with you before, and we always end up sticking to our original positions at the end. But whatever, let's try it again.

 

Let's say you have 100 colored marbles. 10 different colors (red, white, green, yellow, blue, black, gray, purple, pink, and orange). 10 of each color. You randomly put 13 marbles in a jar labeled 1A (approximates the 12.5% of students enrolled in 1A schools), 24 marbles in a jar labeled 2A (approximates the 24.3% of students enrolled in 2A schools), and 63 marbles in a jar labeled 3A (approximates the 63.2% of students in 3A schools).

 

You can take out 10 marbles from each jar (i.e., equal entries). The goal is to have the most orange marbles (state qualifiers).

 

How many orange marbles do you expect each group to produce?

 

Would you expect each group to have the same amount? 

 

Why would you expect the group that has 12.5% of the students to have 33% of the state qualifiers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are entries into the state tournament allotted based on enrollment?

Think he's making the argument the wrong way in your response. I personally believe that all are capable of being equal when stepping on the mat. However when it comes to the preparation, I believe larger school wrestlers could have a major advantage. They have larger facilities and easier access points to prepare. More wrestling minds and bodies to compete against as well. The small school wrestler can train and practice the same moves and techniques but possibly have less time or room to do so. I know AC has tried to get a wrestling room to itself buy hasn't been able. Instead the have a third to a half of our PE gym that they share with middle school and Freshman boys and girls basketball. They even have used a much smaller elementary PE gym. Then you compare it to a Warren Central room that's probably as big as those 2 gyms and maybe our main basketball gym combined.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've had this debate with you before, and we always end up sticking to our original positions at the end. But whatever, let's try it again.

 

Let's say you have 100 colored marbles. 10 different colors (red, white, green, yellow, blue, black, gray, purple, pink, and orange). 10 of each color. You randomly put 13 marbles in a jar labeled 1A (approximates the 12.5% of students enrolled in 1A schools), 24 marbles in a jar labeled 2A (approximates the 24.3% of students enrolled in 2A schools), and 63 marbles in a jar labeled 3A (approximates the 63.2% of students in 3A schools).

 

You can take out 10 marbles from each jar (i.e., equal entries). The goal is to have the most orange marbles (state qualifiers).

 

How many orange marbles do you expect each group to produce?

 

Would you expect each group to have the same amount? 

 

Why would you expect the group that has 12.5% of the students to have 33% of the state qualifiers?

 

In the state tournament the big schools do NOT get more entries, they get the same amount. If you win five or six matches you can qualify for state no matter the size of your school. 

 

Are you trying to tell me a kid from Randolph Southern that enters the state tournament at 138lbs does NOT have an equal shot to qualify for state as a kid from Homestead at 138lbs?  They both have to win the same amount of matches to go to state. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the state tournament the big schools do NOT get more entries, they get the same amount. If you win five or six matches you can qualify for state no matter the size of your school.

 

Are you trying to tell me a kid from Randolph Southern that enters the state tournament at 138lbs does NOT have an equal shot to qualify for state as a kid from Homestead at 138lbs? They both have to win the same amount of matches to go to state.

Unsure where Randolph Southern is sectional-wise, but wouldn't he actually have a better shot. Potentially a higher chance of forfeits from a weak sectional?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unsure where Randolph Southern is sectional-wise, but wouldn't he actually have a better shot. Potentially a higher chance of forfeits from a weak sectional?

A higher shot at maybe qualifying for regional, you still need to win 5 or 6 matches over 3 weeks to get to state. Each VARSITY wrestler has the same opportunity to qualify for state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A higher shot at maybe qualifying for regional, you still need to win 5 or 6 matches over 3 weeks to get to state. Each VARSITY wrestler has the same opportunity to qualify for state.

True, equal shot. Depending on semistate and regionals, they could have a tougher road, but you are correct that every varsity wrestler has the same opportunity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the state tournament the big schools do NOT get more entries, they get the same amount. If you win five or six matches you can qualify for state no matter the size of your school. 

 

Are you trying to tell me a kid from Randolph Southern that enters the state tournament at 138lbs does NOT have an equal shot to qualify for state as a kid from Homestead at 138lbs?  They both have to win the same amount of matches to go to state. 

 

The marble example above gives equal entries to 1A, 2A, and 3A – they each get to enter 10 marbles. The goal is to have the most orange marbles.

 

If you continue to run this experiment, 1A would average 1.25 orange marbles (or 12.5% of the total orange marbles entered in the contest), 2A would average 2.43 orange marbles (or 24.3% of the total orange marbles entered in the contest), and 3A would average 6.32 orange marbles (or 63.2% of the orange marbles entered in the contest).

 

Think of the orange marbles as the people who have the natural ability to be state qualifiers. 1A has 12.5% of the total population, so it’s logical to think they would have 12.5% of those that have the natural ability to be a state qualifier. And with that in mind, it’s not unexpected that they have about 12.5% of the state qualifiers.

 

3A on the other hand has 63.2% of the people and therefore would be expected to have 63.2% of the people with the natural ability to be a state qualifier. And therefore it’s not unexpected that they would have about 63.2% of the state qualifiers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does every wrestler that enters the state tournament have an equal chance to qualify/place/win state?

 

I'd say no.  The wrestler who has to beat out 4 others guys for the varsity spot has a greater chance than the wrestler who has never wrestled before and was pulled out of the hallway to fill a vacant spot.

Are entries into the state tournament allotted based on enrollment?

 

They are not, and that's not fair to the big schools.  You are on to something here... Big schools should get more entries  :D

 

How is it fair that a school with 7 wrestlers can enter 100% of them, but a school with 50 wrestlers can only enter 28% of them?

Edited by GrecoCoach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.