grecoref Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) I saw the movie tonight and I will see it again. One thing to keep in mind when you read this is that I know Mark Schultz and knew Dave Schultz and John DuPont. I had been on the farm and in the mansion a couple of times. I'm not asking anyone to agree nor am I looking for a debate. It's just my take on it and maybe a little history. What it isn't...it isn't Rocky or Vision Quest or Rudy (he was offside by the way), or Remember the Titans. It's not a film that is going to draw a lot of people to wrestling. It's a dark drama BASED on a true story with complex characters and situations that ended in the murder of one of our greatest wrestlers and maybe wrestling's greatest ambassador. It's not 100% factual. One of the biggest liberties they took was having Mark and Dave living on the farm at the same time. They never did. Mark was there first and then left. Dave came later and stayed too long. They combined some time. It's hard to tell this story in 2 hours so they combined and skipped some years. For example in the movie it appears Dave was murdered shortly after the 1988 Olympics when in reality he was killed in 1996. What it is... r Ruffalo as Dave Schultz, Steve Carell as John DuPont and Channing Tatum as Mark Schultz had their characters down pat. Ruffalo-the first time I saw him walk in this movie it almost made me cry. It WAS Dave's walk. If I would have seen it from behind I would have sworn it was Dave. He had his mannerisms down as well. The only thing he didn't capture was Dave's sense of humor. Dave could come up with a one liner out of the blue and make you laugh. More about Dave later. Carell-He portrayed DuPont as the creep he really was. when the Team Trials were held in Philadelphia he would invite the referees out to the farm. I would liken it to having an audience with the Pope except that would be an insult to every catholic on the planet. Tatum-He walked like Mark as well. I always thought Mark was a brooder and I think Tatum got that right. Real wrestlers-lots of real wrestling people including Reece and Jordin Humphrey. Their dad Jim Humphrey was the coach at Foxcatcher in the late 80's and our 88 Olympic coach. He left well before Dave's murder. The sets-very realistic. The scenes on the farm especially. What they used as the exterior shot of the mansion was not real. The internal rooms were like I remember them. One building they didn't show was the Carriage House. DuPont had a collection of antique carriages and wagons. He had one from Gone With The Wind, a Wells Fargo Stage Coach and Cinderella like carriage. The security system alone was like $50,000. The Farm itself had like 17 houses on it. You could hunt deer there and fish. There were fire hydrants. He really did have an army tank. There is a scene when Dave is in an office at the Farm where there are headshot pictures of wrestlers. I remember those being there and I think he had some of them in the mansion as well. The singlets, the warm ups, even the bags were just like the Foxcatcher equipment issue. I had a t-shirt at one time and polo shirt. I burned them both shortly after Dave was killed. A little about DuPont. I can't begin to describe what a creep he was. Each time I was around him I felt like I needed a shower. No one ever said no to John DuPont. On Black Monday he lost something like $13 million. The story in the movie about his mother paying a kid to be his friend is supposedly true. I had heard several times even before he shot Dave. DuPont did do some good with his money. USAW started the National Teams program which our top 3 guys in each weight get a stipend. There are a lot of stories about DuPont, but I have already wasted enough time on him. Mark Schultz was a 3 x NCAA Champion and also a 3x World Champion (1-Olympic and 2 Worlds). He was a physical specimen. One of the most athletic things I ever saw him do was after a loss and off the mat. He lost to the Russian in the finals of the World Cup in Toledo Ohio, walked out the back door of the arena and threw his plaque about 30 or 40 yards right in the middle of the Maumee River. I told him about it a couple of years ago and he said he remembered that. He also told me that he very proudly does not have any 2nd place awards in his possession. He threw all of them away. A 2nd place Big 8 medal is somewhere on top of Gallagher-Iba Arena. Mark is an emotional complex individual. I hope he finds peace someday. Dave Schultz was one of my heroes even though we were born 4 months apart and I refereed some of his matches. He had a charisma about him that is difficult to describe. I NEVER heard anyone say they didn't like Dave. I saw him get standing ovations in other countries when he placed 2nd or 3rd. He learned to speak Russian on his own and he was more famous there than here. The Bulgarians, the Iranians, the Koreans...everyone loved him. I believe he was our best technician without (by far) being our best athlete. When our National Anthem is played at a wrestling event, I say a silent prayer and then I think of Dave Schultz....not once in a while, but every single time. The movie was tough to watch. Especially the end. I remember where I was and how I heard Dave was shot. I couldn't believe it then and I still can't. I believe Dave's murder held us back as a country. I think Dave would have been our national coach and we have flourished under him no matter what the rules. If you are a wrestler I encourage to google videos of Dave and Mark wrestling. they were a joy to watch. Tom Clark Edited December 27, 2014 by grecoref Arabian WC, carseller0822, loscoz and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbarnett Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 so in reality was Dave killed at the farm in the fashion it was depicted in the movie that much later (8 years)?......i take it he was still coaching there at that time?......if dupont was really that weird, why did they all hang on and stay there?.......just because he funded everything?.......i was waiting the entire film for him to come out as gay and want to be with Mark.....was he that also? my take on the movie was that it totally went in a different direction than i thought it was going to.....definitely a "dark" tale as you put it..... X_R A T E D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 so in reality was Dave killed at the farm in the fashion it was depicted in the movie that much later (8 years)?......i take it he was still coaching there at that time?......if dupont was really that weird, why did they all hang on and stay there?.......just because he funded everything?.......i was waiting the entire film for him to come out as gay and want to be with Mark.....was he that also? my take on the movie was that it totally went in a different direction than i thought it was going to.....definitely a "dark" tale as you put it..... Yes Dave was killed as depicted in 1996. the last shot DuPont fired was in Dave's back as he was trying to crawl away. He died in Nancy's arms. Dave was still coaching and training for the 96 Olympics. At the time he was our number 1 guy at 163. They stayed for a number of reasons. The training environment, the money, they didn't think he was dangerous, the others stayed because Dave was there. I don't know that DuPont was gay. There was one lawsuit filed stating he made advances. I think most people there would describe him as "a sexual." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Yes Dave was killed as depicted in 1996. the last shot DuPont fired was in Dave's back as he was trying to crawl away. He died in Nancy's arms. Dave was still coaching and training for the 96 Olympics. At the time he was our number 1 guy at 163. They stayed for a number of reasons. The training environment, the money, they didn't think he was dangerous, the others stayed because Dave was there. I don't know that DuPont was gay. There was one lawsuit filed stating he made advances. I think most people there would describe him as "a sexual." The Mark Schultz book Foxcatcher has many more details on everything, even on the gay issue with Dupont. In trying to keep this as G as possible, Schultz said he heard that Dupont had an injury when he was young that basically stopped him from producing testosterone and thus the feminine features and such. He said he never felt any type of sexual advances while he was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Great insight grecoref thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGarcia Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Great read Mr. Clark . Great Movie . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matdad Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Thanks for the backstory grecoref...I saw the movie and it def made me appreciate Dave Shultz more than ever...his life was def way too short... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwilly Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Great write-up. In 1993 I attended a camp, and had he privelage of spending time with Ed Giese. Ed was a top 3 114.5 wrester for the USA in the 80s, and I knew he had wrestled with Foxcatcher. I asked him about his career, and wrestling for Foxcatcher. He wasn't with Foxcatcher at that time anymore, but was really uneasy & elusive about why he wasn't. He really didn't want to discuss Foxcatcher at all. I was a 17 year old kid, and all I knew was Foxcatcher was an elite talented team. The one thing I do remember is he mentioned how controlling it was there, although I do no recall him mentioning DuPont by name. When the tragedy occured int 1996 I immediatly thought of those conversations with Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Seymour Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Tom you made me want to see the movie even more, I am going to see it tonight and pretty excited for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Where is it playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLane Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Where is it playing?Landmarks Arts at Keystone Crossing If your planning on seeing it...get there early. All three showing on Friday sold out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Getting ready to enjoy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 What great insight, I can't wait until I can get the chance to see this movie! Thanks for sharing your personal knowledge of the whole tragedy. It must be very difficult to relive this nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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