Fabio Jr. Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 It is their job to recruit our kids and make them want to go there. It is not on US as a state to send kids there if I had a blue chipper you can bet your butt he would be no where near these programs. There are better schools in the midwest academically and athletically when it comes to wrestling. To be blunt the sad thing is that it seems IU and purdue are the Cleveland Browns or Chicago Cubs of big 10 wrestling...just seem to be stuck at the bottom..."There is always next year" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 To be fair to my Cubbies, they won the Central Division 3 times between 2003-2008, Purdue nor Indiana has come close to winning a Big 10 Championship. I mean I get in the end they didn't win the BIG one, but give them some credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 In that same time frame the White Sox won A World Series I kid I kid....kinda...Go Sox..(too bad we are realllly bad now as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I agree that you have to hit on in-state talent to be successful. I think both programs have underachieved, but they are attracting some studs. We forget how good Quiroga was because he lost to Tsirtsis (and Tsirtsis is so special). Eppert, Quiroga, Nelson, Atwood have all been Big 10 quality wrestlers. They've also attracted some other top guys like Ayersman, Farrell and even some who didn't work out, Stein, Devon Jackson, etc. Same goes for IU. Andrae and Angel were great Big 10 wrestlers with Angel obviously being one of the best. They've attracted some of Indiana's top wrestlers (regardless of how it's worked out). Powless was an AA, plus Raley, Roach, Molloy, Chalfant, Fletcher Miller (recruit), etc. IU has also had some guys not work out. Didn't Brandon Wright start at IU? They were in the mix for Nathan Boston for a little bit. I'm sure there are others. It would definitely be nice to keep all of our top dogs at home (Tsirtsis, Howe, Micic, Sliga, plus guys like Corsaro, Bernard, LeCount, etc.) I don't think they've been outrecruited by U of I or Wabash but maybe they've missed a couple of guys who might have worked out at the Big 10 level (Keiffer brothers, Riley LeFever, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 In that same time frame the White Sox won A World Series I kid I kid....kinda...Go Sox..(too bad we are realllly bad now as well) That would be 2005, it still stings when I'm on the Dan Ryan and see the banner hanging on the Cell. Hey we have Theo, things are looking up (insert sarcasm)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 In 2012 Hinkel made $89,256.02 Fleeger made $35,013.69 Rogers made $49,951.10 Goldman made $90,374.64 Simmons made $19,899.28(Partial year) Dubuque made $26,611.14(Partial year I believe) Leblanc IU. made a little over $56,000 for the year he was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Mudflap, Real quick, forgot to mention. Purdue Athletics does not take State dollars, the athletic department is it's own entity. John Purdue Club raises all of the funding for athletics through ticket sales, alumni gifts, merchandise etc etc. Also, i do believe you are more informed then most and do respect your opinion. Would be interested to know who you really are, as I believe this open debate can be a positive thing. I am not "calling you out", just feel like knowing who you are and where you come from gives more merit to your statements. I just feel your approach is not the best with this, and it perpetuates a negative perception of these programs. So basically what I am trying to say it seems counter productive to handle it this way. Dan Bedoy I don' think this is ( perception), but a reality of these programs. Speaking more about IU, than PU. The comments on here are statement of fact, that is, what is going on with recruiting and wins and losses. This far from a witch hunt. Results are not meeting expectations, with ample time to produce. Compared to the rest of the BIG. And you have to compare with the rest of the schools in the BIG because this is the conference they are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poitup123 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Something we've talked about at the high school level is name recognition. In addition to my earlier point about money, names will lower any arbitrary borders we perceive. Cael Sanderson would attract some of the nation's best almost anywhere he went, as long as there were not too many restrictions on budgets. I'll posit you this: If Jordan Burroughs right now for some reason agreed to be Indiana's head coach following the 2016 Summer Games, what would happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I think both programs have underachieved, but they are attracting some studs. They've attracted some of Indiana's top wrestlers (regardless of how it's worked out). This may be the problem in recruiting... When the top guys go there it usually doesn't seem to work out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 This may be the problem in recruiting... When the top guys go there it usually doesn't seem to work out... Again, a track record at IU, either wrestlers don't stay, or they don't develop. Recruit, retain, develop! If Indiana high school wrestlers have a choice, they have eyes, they see what is going on at these Universities, they will choose elsewhere. I believe IU and PU have better success with out of state recruits. They are a little less familiar with these programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaMudflap Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Rather than complain about our in-state programs, we as coaches need to give our support on the ground level to them. Attend their camps, join their clubs, take a vested interest in the program. I have seen good kids choose our in-state colleges because of these relationships. They owe us nothing, coaches and kids need to be invested in Purdue and IU programs if they expect something in return. Mike Atwood of Delphi is a great example. He supports BoilerElite for his kids. Delphi always has a strong program because of it, and he has two Delphi grads on Purdue's starting lineup. So it's the Indiana HS coach's fault that Purdue and IU suck?! Why are these 2 schools not getting the Indiana-born D1 kids who pan out? Howe, Tsirtsis, Sliga, Micic, Petrov, Steveson, A. Tsirtsis, Dolly, Deutsch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaMudflap Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 As a Purdue and IU wrestling fan, I'm tired of watching them beat their heads against the wall doing the same thing year after year with no success. Duane has been at IU for 22 years!!! Hinkel has been at Purdue for 22 years!!! Enough is enough! If nothing else, a new coach at both places would garner a little excitement, a national coaching search, get people talking about who it's going to be, the programs can sell it as the "rebirth of Indiana and Purdue wrestling". We need something to change. These programs are stale, and they're going nowhere and have gone nowhere for the last 22 years each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H1N1 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 YOU MUST OWN YOUR STATE! Why is Ohio State good in football? 90% of the best high school football players in Ohio go to Ohio State. Why is Indiana U. good in basketball? 90% of the best high school basketball players in Indiana go to Indiana U. Why is Penn State good in wrestling? 90% of the best high school wrestlers in Pennsylvania go to Penn State. Why is U. of Minnesota good in hockey? 90% of the best high school hockey players in Minnesota go to U. of Minnesota. Go these schools web site's, click on their roster. You will be amazed how many are homegrown. Until IU and PU start owning 90% of Indiana's elite wrestling recruits (like Tsirtsis 2x, Howe, Micic, Sliga) they will continue to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNextDynasty Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 $90K for 5 months work?........dang.......lol I would say it's a lot more than 5 months. It is basically a year around job. And from my experiences at the DIII level, most days during the school year you are on campus from 6am workouts until 10pm finishing recruiting calls. I'm not saying it's a bad gig, but it's a little ridiculous to think it's only 5 months of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I would say it's a lot more than 5 months. It is basically a year around job. And from my experiences at the DIII level, most days during the school year you are on campus from 6am workouts until 10pm finishing recruiting calls. I'm not saying it's a bad gig, but it's a little ridiculous to think it's only 5 months of work. that was sarcasm bud......duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 It is glaringly obvious between the two threads, high school and college, that very few if any people that have responded are happy about D1 wrestling teams in this state. I Think the overwhelmingly conclusion is to search for new head coaches. I my be wrong, but I have a hunch Fred Glass is going to bring in the IU head coach after NCAAS, and make a coaching change announcement. I'm no so privy to Burke, the PU AD, situation. But with the athletics situation at Indiana, The AD will not tolerate mediocrity. As evidenced by baseball, football, female basketball, track, swimming, softball. Now in the scheme of things, wrestling in the pecking order, may not be as important as some of these other sports but important to the AD none the less. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 YOU MUST OWN YOUR STATE! Why is Ohio State good in football? 90% of the best high school football players in Ohio go to Ohio State. Why is Indiana U. good in basketball? 90% of the best high school basketball players in Indiana go to Indiana U. Why is Penn State good in wrestling? 90% of the best high school wrestlers in Pennsylvania go to Penn State. Why is U. of Minnesota good in hockey? 90% of the best high school hockey players in Minnesota go to U. of Minnesota. Go these schools web site's, click on their roster. You will be amazed how many are homegrown. Until IU and PU start owning 90% of Indiana's elite wrestling recruits (like Tsirtsis 2x, Howe, Micic, Sliga) they will continue to struggle. If IU and Purdue Wrestling OWNED all of the talent in the state of Indiana they would still have a hard time placing in the top half of the Big Ten year in and year out. The argument that these other programs are successful due to them getting 90% of the talent in their state is true in their situations, but very flawed overall. I mean, by this argument if IU Hockey can get 90% of the kids who play Hockey in Indiana to go there they should be successful....not going to happen. Iowa, PA, Ohio, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin....all lose great kids to schools in other states and are still successful. Our talent pool in Indiana is much better than ever, but it is still way to thin to believe that it alone can sustain 2 D-1 programs at a high level if that is all they are rellying on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaMudflap Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Here's a little comparison.. Everyone wants to come on here and support Purdue and Coach Hinkel, but nobody seems to ever want to come to the aid of Duane Goldman, but when you look at it objectively, the situation at Purdue is actually much worse than IU's. Indiana has had 16 All-Americans in the past 10 years with 2012 and 2013 the only years without one. Purdue has had just 7 All-Americans in that same time span with none in 2007, 2008, 2011 and 2012. Less than half the All-Americans over Reyes' final two seasons and Hinkel's first 8 as Head Coach. Time for a change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Campbell Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 "We need something to change. These programs are stale, and they're going nowhere and have gone nowhere for the last 22 years each." Maybe this should read...."We need to change something". If Indiana talent overall is below par with the powerhouse states, we surely can't blame college coaches. Proven talent via national tournaments is lacking in Indiana. There are the elite few, but as an exception, not a rule. Grow the sport from the ground up and provide Purdue and IU ripe fruit for picking!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I don't mind if they get Indiana kids or not. They need to land some Blue Chippers and DEVELOP them. Which they havent done in forever. Is it my fault that IU and PU have been, i'll put it lightly, less than stellar. If it is I have been missing a ton of paychecks for my "work" and daddy has student loans to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 "We need something to change. These programs are stale, and they're going nowhere and have gone nowhere for the last 22 years each." Maybe this should read...."We need to change something". If Indiana talent overall is below par with the powerhouse states, we surely can't blame college coaches. Proven talent via national tournaments is lacking in Indiana. There are the elite few, but as an exception, not a rule. Grow the sport from the ground up and provide Purdue and IU ripe fruit for picking!!! But if talent is on the upswing (as most seem to believe) and results are going nowhere....who is to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 If IU and Purdue Wrestling OWNED all of the talent in the state of Indiana they would still have a hard time placing in the top half of the Big Ten year in and year out. The argument that these other programs are successful due to them getting 90% of the talent in their state is true in their situations, but very flawed overall. I mean, by this argument if IU Hockey can get 90% of the kids who play Hockey in Indiana to go there they should be successful....not going to happen. Iowa, PA, Ohio, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin....all lose great kids to schools in other states and are still successful. Our talent pool in Indiana is much better than ever, but it is still way to thin to believe that it alone can sustain 2 D-1 programs at a high level if that is all they are rellying on. What would an all-Indiana team look like with current D1 wrestlers (this season only)? Can we even fill all of the spots? Off the top of my head: 125 -- Petrov 133 -- Quiroga 141 -- 149 -- Tsirtsis 157 -- 165 -- 174 -- Howe 184 -- 197 -- Atwood 285 -- Chalfant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 If IU and Purdue Wrestling OWNED all of the talent in the state of Indiana they would still have a hard time placing in the top half of the Big Ten year in and year out. The argument that these other programs are successful due to them getting 90% of the talent in their state is true in their situations, but very flawed overall. I mean, by this argument if IU Hockey can get 90% of the kids who play Hockey in Indiana to go there they should be successful....not going to happen. Iowa, PA, Ohio, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin....all lose great kids to schools in other states and are still successful. Our talent pool in Indiana is much better than ever, but it is still way to thin to believe that it alone can sustain 2 D-1 programs at a high level if that is all they are rellying on. I don't think any body in their right mind in this discussion thinks IU or PU is going to be the next Penn St., Minn., or Iowa. And this isn;t what the discussion is. It would be nice to se these elite guys stay so we as Indiana citizens could go see them wrestle in and for an Indiana D1 team. Think what it would be like if the last 3 guys that went to Northwestern went to Purdue. And mixed in with Eppert,Quiroga,Sabatello,Nelson, Atwood. Think about the room atmosphere, how these three could improve the entire team. The same for IU, mix these elites with Walsh,Sheridan, Leblanc, Chalfant. The teams would be respectable, we could actually get excited as fans to have a little hope against some of the middle pack teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 What should the measure of success be? AA's, team rankings, or some other metric. What is the threshold for either program to be considered successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Be competitive in their conference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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