When is enough, ENOUGH?!

[Y2CJ41]

You have to also wonder how much does an assistant coach even make? Most might come help as they continue to pursue their international level, but I would imagine that wrestling assistants might not earn that much for the time and effort. We all love the sport of wrestling, but this is their job and would like to make a decent living as well. Maybe athletic departments are limiting budgets or something behind the scenes that we don't know about? Purdue & IU's budget, might not be that of Ohio State, Iowa, Minnesota's. Just a thought.

In 2012

Hinkel made $89,256.02

Fleeger made $35,013.69

Rogers made $49,951.10

 

Goldman made $90,374.64

Simmons made $19,899.28(Partial year)

Dubuque made $26,611.14(Partial year I believe)

 

 

[sslaymon]

Anyway to find the salaries of the Big Ten Coaches and assistants? Maybe there is a correlation?

[IndianaMudflap]

These figures above do not include any money they receive for camps, clinics, etc. which can add up to quite a bit for some..

[charger.dad]

In 2012

Hinkel made $89,256.02

Fleeger made $35,013.69

Rogers made $49,951.10

 

Goldman made $90,374.64

Simmons made $19,899.28(Partial year)

Dubuque made $26,611.14(Partial year I believe)

 

$90K for 5 months work?........dang.......lol

 

[Y2CJ41]

Anyway to find the salaries of the Big Ten Coaches and assistants? Maybe there is a correlation?

Most are public universities and you can simply do a search for ABC University salary database and get results

 

I compiled this about a year ago

[table]

School Coach Pay Position

Iowa Terry Brands $126,690.00 Assistant 1

Michigan Sean Bormet $93,150.00 Assistant 1

Illinois Mark Perry $92,250.00 Assistant 1

Ohio State Lee Rosseli $76,177.20 Assistant 1

Minnesota Brandon Eggum $68,172.00 Assistant 1

Nebraska Bryan Snyder $58,294.00 Assistant 1

Purdue Pete Rogers $49,951.10 Assistant 1

Wisconsin Ryan Morningstar $45,868.00 Assistant 1

Michigan State Roger Chandler $44,865.00 Assistant 1

Indiana Nick Simmons $19,899.28 Assistant 1

Penn State Cody Sanderson [/td] Assistant 1

Northwestern Assistant 1

Michigan Donny Pritzlaff $77,250.00 Assistant 2

Nebraska Tony Ersland $57,173.00 Assistant 2

Wisconsin Kyle Ruschell $50,074.00 Assistant 2

Iowa Ryan Morningstar $50,000.00 Assistant 2

Minnesota Luke Becker $46,887.00 Assistant 2

Illinois Jeremy Hunter $45,000.00 Assistant 2

Ohio State J Jaggers $44,889.00 Assistant 2

Purdue Chris Fleeger $35,013.69 Assistant 2

Michigan State Chris Williams $34,965.00 Assistant 2

Indiana Joe Lablanc $26,410.91 Assistant 2

Penn State Casey Cunningham Assistant 2

Northwestern Assistant 2

Minnesota J Robinson $169,704.00 Head

Penn State Cael Sanderson $175,000.00 Head

Iowa Tom Brands $145,000.00 Head

Nebraska Mark Manning $128,441.00 Head

Ohio State Tom Ryan $125,187.24 Head

Michigan Joe McFarland $110,705.00 Head

Illinois Jim Heffernan $110,000.00 Head

Wisconsin Barry Davis $105,350.00 Head

Indiana Duance Goldman $90,374.64 Head

Purdue Scott Hinkel $89,256.02 Head

Michigan State Tom Minkel $74,330.00 Head

Northwestern [td]Head

[/table]

[IndianaMudflap]

Fleeger looks to be underpaid, but as someone said above, it looks like we are getting Pete Rogers for the price of Bryan Snyder..

[BoilerElite_RTC]

First Off, this is Daniel Bedoy, I would like to state that I am not replying on behalf of the BoilerElite staff, but since is the username I had associated with my email I have no choice.  I want to make that clear that even though I am probably still biased, I will try and respond as objectively as possible. 

 

With that being said...

 

I hope you understand the scholarship distribution at the D1 level, the allotment is 9.9 scholarship for the whole line up.  Given 4 years competing and 1 year redshirting, that gives you a smidge under 2 full scholarships to distribute per recruiting class.  On average you like to bring in 6-8 guys per class, and with doing that you have to give out partial scholarships. With partial scholarships it is much harder for out of state guys to pay the difference.  i.e.  Indiana kid on 50% pays 8k, where out of state kid on 50% pays 20+k

 

Sooooo, you really do rely on the strength of the state when recruiting (WHY CAEL SAID HE CAN HAVE MORE SUCCESS AT PENN STATE AND LEFT HIS ALMA MATER)

 

And I know your rebuttal, "Well we have had in state kids go out of the state for college and have success at the D1 level" , so let me clue you in on that. The recruiting "battle" is not as easy as you make it out to see.  Luckily for me most of the kids you are referring to are from the "Region", and am privy to a little more information you may not be aware of. Hopefully you will see that there is more at play then what you assume.

 

Alex Tsirtsis-  Childhood dream to wrestle at Iowa, plain and simple! If any of you know Alex he is one of the most strong willed personalities you will meet, and that was what he wanted since he was a kid and that's what he did. Yes he did have a relationship built with Fleeger, yes it was almost enough to get him at Purdue, but his childhood wishes were stronger. Also, in an interview after his commitment to Iowa he even mentioned that it really was a tough choice between Iowa and Purdue.

Andrew Howe- Dont know too much detail, but I know there was a relationship with Pritzlaff during HS.  His decision one could gather was based around Pritzlaff, because when Pritzlaff left so did he.

Angel Escobedo- Did stay in state, and a big reason was because of Andrae Hernandez who is cousin and drill partner since he was 5yrs old. Just stating an example of what recruiting factors play a part that you may not see on the surface.

 

Now you may look at these as excuses, but I am really just trying to give you more insight on whats at hand. There are plenty of outside factors that influence a kids choice on college, so to think it is just 1s and 2s its not.  Also remember this list is not very long, and as we continue to get better as a state I hope the list grows.

 

*I could include guys like Reece (father was an OSU guy) and recently Jason, but again I am giving you information I know a little more about.

 

What I do know is that bashing our in state Big Ten programs, does not help the image nor the decisions for our state's top talent to go there!

 

To single out certain coaches by name is not fair either, because I can assure you there has been plenty touted coaches before that had the same difficulties. Historically (last 20-30 years), the totem pole of Big Ten wrestling has stayed close to the same. 

 

Also, I guess you are as good as your last tournament huh?? Failed to mention that Purdue beat Michigan, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and IU last year in dual meets.  Finishing 3rd tied with OSU in the Big Ten dual meet record.  Which, I won't get into here, but is not recognized yet and has been brought up for discussion for counting them towards the Big Ten tournament point scoring.

 

At the end of the day I understand your feeling, but before you call the lynch mob see that there is more to it.

 

This turned out more long winded then I thought, but yeah my 2 cents.

 

 

 

[oldandbroke]

Purdue or IU would never spend the money for wrestling that most of the other Big Ten schools spend on staff or scholarships.  Indiana is not a wrestling state.  There are few people who go to the wrestling matches here compared to the other Big ten schools.  I think Purdue has improved the area high school wrestling.  I think they do have room to improve and seem to be taking steps.  I think they need a true upper weight coach in that room that can push the upper weights, I think the biggest coach in the room is 170ish. You called out some kids on here that I think are Big ten level wrestlers and are going to show great improvements.  The Big Ten is The Elite wrestling conference, it doesn't take much to struggle with that schedule and throw in an injury to wrestle with and it can be really rough.  You realize that Mishawaka Penn has more kids in its high school than most of the Logan regional combined?  Purdue is having an impact on the local kids and there is a great deal of improvement in the area.  The kids from the area that are having state level success are coming from the program there.  Kids are coming from out of the area to learn there as well.  It comes down to spending money.  Northwestern can spend it and Tsirtsis and Micic live about as close to NW as PU.  I don't know what kind of deal they got but I would wager it was a lot more than PU or IU could cough up. 

[IndianaMudflap]

Purdue or IU would never spend the money for wrestling that most of the other Big Ten schools spend on staff or scholarships.  Indiana is not a wrestling state.  There are few people who go to the wrestling matches here compared to the other Big ten schools.  I think Purdue has improved the area high school wrestling.  I think they do have room to improve and seem to be taking steps.  I think they need a true upper weight coach in that room that can push the upper weights, I think the biggest coach in the room is 170ish. You called out some kids on here that I think are Big ten level wrestlers and are going to show great improvements.  The Big Ten is The Elite wrestling conference, it doesn't take much to struggle with that schedule and throw in an injury to wrestle with and it can be really rough.  You realize that Mishawaka Penn has more kids in its high school than most of the Logan regional combined?  Purdue is having an impact on the local kids and there is a great deal of improvement in the area.  The kids from the area that are having state level success are coming from the program there.  Kids are coming from out of the area to learn there as well.  It comes down to spending money.  Northwestern can spend it and Tsirtsis and Micic live about as close to NW as PU.  I don't know what kind of deal they got but I would wager it was a lot more than PU or IU could cough up.

 

Both can "cough up" the same 9.9 scholarships per year like Mr. Bedoy shared above.. It comes down to why did Tsirtsis, Micic, Sliga, Steveson, Howe, A. Tsirtsis, Humphrey, Dolly, etc. etc. not think that Purdue or IU would be good enough for them?  Purdue and IU need to land a blue chip recruit in the worst way possible..

[julio]

Purdue might have finished 3rd in the Big Ten dual meet schedule, but did they wrestle all 11 Big Ten teams or only a couple that would askew their record? ???

[IndianaMudflap]

I'm with you.  As a Purdue grad and someone who has had cousins wrestle for both Purdue and Indiana it is a shame that they do not do better recruiting in state.  It is sad when I can just drive up to Evanston and see Indiana's last 2, soon to be 3, best high school wrestlers.

 

Isn't Bedoy one of the cousins who you are referring to in this post?

[IndianaMudflap]

Purdue only won one dual meet this year in conference, 18-16 against IU.  Not sure how that is good enough for 3rd in the Big Ten, but I'll take your word for it..

 

This year they lost to:

 

Iowa 30-3

Michigan 22-12

Penn State 34-3

Nebraska 28-9

Ohio State 16-15

Illinois 18-16

[Grenadier2012]

Both can "cough up" the same 9.9 scholarships per year like Mr. Bedoy shared above.. It comes down to why did Tsirtsis, Micic, Sliga, Steveson, Howe, A. Tsirtsis, Humphrey, Dolly, etc. etc. not think that Purdue or IU would be good enough for them?  Purdue and IU need to land a blue chip recruit in the worst way possible..

 

I know it is only one blue chip kid but IU nabbed Jacob Danishek, 4x OH State Champ, also won the Walsh Ironman and the Super 32, currently ranked #2 in the nation at 152 they also landed Cole Weaver who is a 3x'er in Michigan.

[BoilerElite_RTC]

Mudflap,

 

Real quick, forgot to mention. Purdue Athletics does not take State dollars, the athletic department is it's own entity. John Purdue Club raises all of the funding for athletics through ticket sales, alumni gifts, merchandise etc etc.

 

Also, i do believe you are more informed then most and do respect your opinion. Would be interested to know who you really are, as I believe this open debate can be a positive thing.  I am not "calling you out", just feel like knowing who you are and where you come from gives more merit to your statements. 

 

I just feel your approach is not the best with this, and it perpetuates a negative perception of these programs.  So basically what I am trying to say it seems counter productive to handle it this way.

 

Dan Bedoy

[IMAWRESTLER]

I don't know about I.U. but Purdue I do know, and I am impressed with what they accomplished this year.  I think they are making adjustments each year to get better.  As for not developing the local talent, they are there for you its up to the kid to want the help.  I think its a shame that there aren't many of the local kids taking advantage of the program.  My son wrestled with Boiler Elite and they were there to help him in anyway they could. 

[IndianaMudflap]

I don't know about I.U. but Purdue I do know, and I am impressed with what they accomplished this year.  I think they are making adjustments each year to get better.  As for not developing the local talent, they are there for you its up to the kid to want the help.  I think its a shame that there aren't many of the local kids taking advantage of the program.  My son wrestled with Boiler Elite and they were there to help him in anyway they could.

 

What is it that you were so impressed by this year?  Their 1-6 Big Ten Dual Record, their 11th place finish at Big Ten's, or their 2 NCAA qualifiers?

[IndianaMudflap]

At least they had some nice singlets..

 

Who is Purdue's last NCAA champion?

 

At least IU is producing NCAA champions with Escobedo and Dubuque 2x..

[unknown wrestler]

Jones

[IndianaMudflap]

Jones

 

Does Jones have a first name?  What year and weight?

[poitup123]

Amen, I say, Amen.

So many valid points on this board, and it's a poignant talking point, just one that probably doesn't need to drop all of the blame on coaches.

One of the commentators during Tsirtsis' match on Sunday was talking about how Northwestern upgraded its facilities, and of course you can infer that that helped lure that stacked recruiting class this year and Jason's senior year at CP. This isn't a major revelation, but the larger issue is probably always going to be money.

The Big Ten Network made the conference super rich, so much so that everyone else wanted in (remember how they were going to go from the Leaders and Legends divisions to a third called the Leeches?). However, with that fortune comes complacency, and unfortunately whether it's football, wrestling or basketball, the status quo and double-digit placements in the conference are OK as long as people keep gettin' them checks. Revenue is shared among conference members from big money bowl games, so the incentive to succeed diminishes, much to the ire of alumni.

Kids-wise, there just isn't much loyalty to a state anymore. Whoever has the most attractive program (read: money spent on the program) is going to get the biggest recruits. It's an unending cycle that, as mentioned before, keeps the totem pole from ever changing too drastically.

Indiana has always had a brain drain, and starting in the 1990s in basketball, with guys like Zach Randolph, Jason Gardner, etc., it started in earnest in hoops. Now those of us who went to a state school with wrestling are going to take pride with a side of "what could have been?" as Tsirtsis and Howe potentially win national championships in the other guys' singlets.

[allritecoach]

Really hurt IU when Mike Mena left. I really feel that he was the driving force to get Dubuque and Escebedo to be National Champions.

[unknown wrestler]

Charles Jones

[greco165]

Charles Jones

 

... and that has been their only champion since 1950

[oldfat119]

i guess I'm kind of chiming in,, but,,  i just went on the JConline, and low and behold there are tons of articles about that "b" sport finishing last in the BT,  but NOT 1 about the guys that did place and qual for the nationals,,  that will never help with the greater cause,,,  hey even the lowly of us kids wanted to see our name in the paper for the hard work we put in, it dif does not help the cause. Maybe people, friends, family,  would like to have some good wrestling news to read  at their desk Monday morning with there coffee,,  idk,

[B Campbell]

Rather than complain about our in-state programs, we as coaches need to give our support on the ground level to them.  Attend their camps, join their clubs, take a vested interest in the program.  I have seen good kids choose our in-state colleges because of these relationships.  They owe us nothing, coaches and kids need to be invested in Purdue and IU programs if they expect something in return.

Mike Atwood of Delphi is a great example.  He supports BoilerElite for his kids. Delphi always has a strong program because of it, and he has two Delphi grads on Purdue's starting lineup.